GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
The Swiss are masters of WarCougar wrote:
The Vatican Guard>Earth
Here are the destroyers of worlds. They are become death and shit.
Here are the destroyers of worlds. They are become death and shit.
Why do you think we deployed some in Viet Nam? lolMajor.League.Infidel wrote:
For the record, Korean Marines are crazy. A buddy of mine was running some training with them, and the Marines forgot to tell the Koreans where the Head was on the vessel they were on. Crazy Bastards would shit in their hand and throw it overboard.thtthht wrote:
USMC, u.s. army, navy, korean marines.
knowing those guys exist gives chills down my spine.Cougar wrote:
CIA Black Operatives.
I'd like to know how shitting in your own hand would help you in a combat situation.
Psychological Warfare.jord wrote:
I'd like to know how shitting in your own hand would help you in a combat situation.
If some Korean guy was throwing his poo at me in a jungle I would run away..
You can smell the fear in the air.Cougar wrote:
http://www.danheller.com/images/Europe/ … rd-big.jpgGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
The Swiss are masters of WarCougar wrote:
The Vatican Guard>Earth
Here are the destroyers of worlds. They are become death and shit.
I'd say the Roman legions would qualify as the best military of all time, not their first armies consisting of nobles but the legions after the reforms of Marius. He truly transformed the Roman army into the effective force they are now known as.
He standardized the equipment and allowed non-patricians and poor people to join the army. And because they were poor they were dependent of the army's successes, now if that's not a good motivation then I don't know what is.
Their technology was way ahead of their neighboring states in terms of siege equipment, road building, forts and small weaponry. They also had very good tactics enabling them to conquer the brave and tough yet unorganized 'barbarians'.
Their language unified the entire Mediterranean area so that they could recruit foreign troops who functioned in their ranks as good as anyone else.
It's a shame their downfall was because of internal turmoils, high reliance on slavery and a bunch of mean Germanic tribes pushed forward by the Huns.
He standardized the equipment and allowed non-patricians and poor people to join the army. And because they were poor they were dependent of the army's successes, now if that's not a good motivation then I don't know what is.
Their technology was way ahead of their neighboring states in terms of siege equipment, road building, forts and small weaponry. They also had very good tactics enabling them to conquer the brave and tough yet unorganized 'barbarians'.
Their language unified the entire Mediterranean area so that they could recruit foreign troops who functioned in their ranks as good as anyone else.
It's a shame their downfall was because of internal turmoils, high reliance on slavery and a bunch of mean Germanic tribes pushed forward by the Huns.
This is a very difficult topic, and I doubt if a true winner can be announced. However I think the following deserve a honourable mention:
1. Coalition of Magna Graecia, specifically the 300 Spartiates at Thermopylae. They held out 5 days against a million and didn't even loose; they were betrayed by a sheppard. I've been in Thermopylae,.. quite impressive.
2. Jeanne D'Arc (and her following). Who cares if she was schizofrenic or didn't actually fight; at 17 she inspired an army of quarelling old-fashioned feudal knights against the organized revolutionary Brittish warmachine and turned the tide of a hundred year war.
3. The once newly formed state of Israel. Building a nation out of nothing and being able to adapt to an unique situation. Women in the army to solve the shortage of manpower and because they fit better into tanks, fighting and winning on multiple fronts and doing so using other nations's left-over junk.
Of course "La Grande Armee" (a personal favorite ), the Roman legions, the army of Salah E'Din, the army of Qui Chi Quang, the SAS, the Religious Crusaders Orders and probably some others I haven't mentioned were/are also great. Allthough I think the unity and efficiency of the Roman legions are very debatable.
Edit: trying to be objective I have to admit that Jerry was also "great". The sublime discipline, the parasitic usage of the Czech panzer factories, revolutionary tactics (like the Blitzkrieg) and material way ahead of it's time (for example the, allthough rechambered, MG42 still being in use today as one of the worlds finest LMG's). Obviously though, he can forget about an "honourable" mention.
1. Coalition of Magna Graecia, specifically the 300 Spartiates at Thermopylae. They held out 5 days against a million and didn't even loose; they were betrayed by a sheppard. I've been in Thermopylae,.. quite impressive.
2. Jeanne D'Arc (and her following). Who cares if she was schizofrenic or didn't actually fight; at 17 she inspired an army of quarelling old-fashioned feudal knights against the organized revolutionary Brittish warmachine and turned the tide of a hundred year war.
3. The once newly formed state of Israel. Building a nation out of nothing and being able to adapt to an unique situation. Women in the army to solve the shortage of manpower and because they fit better into tanks, fighting and winning on multiple fronts and doing so using other nations's left-over junk.
Of course "La Grande Armee" (a personal favorite ), the Roman legions, the army of Salah E'Din, the army of Qui Chi Quang, the SAS, the Religious Crusaders Orders and probably some others I haven't mentioned were/are also great. Allthough I think the unity and efficiency of the Roman legions are very debatable.
Edit: trying to be objective I have to admit that Jerry was also "great". The sublime discipline, the parasitic usage of the Czech panzer factories, revolutionary tactics (like the Blitzkrieg) and material way ahead of it's time (for example the, allthough rechambered, MG42 still being in use today as one of the worlds finest LMG's). Obviously though, he can forget about an "honourable" mention.
Last edited by Lai (2007-07-05 12:39:16)
Off the top of my head iraq springs to mind. Special forces are usually responsible for identifying key targets in a conflict. I can't think of another country that flattened as many marketplaces and homes whilst managing not to eliminate targets.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
this statement perplexes me. care to elaborate as to how you came to that conclusion my dear friend?dc_involved wrote:
To be fair America probably have one of the worst special forces in the world.
I've been trying to locate it to no avail at the mo, but i remember seeing a programme where the FFL, SAS and American equivalent all competed on an assault course and america lost bigtime. FFL whipped arse, SAS close behind and america hours behind
QFTFlemishHCmaniac wrote:
I'd say the Roman legions would qualify as the best military of all time, not their first armies consisting of nobles but the legions after the reforms of Marius. He truly transformed the Roman army into the effective force they are now known as.
He standardized the equipment and allowed non-patricians and poor people to join the army. And because they were poor they were dependent of the army's successes, now if that's not a good motivation then I don't know what is.
Their technology was way ahead of their neighboring states in terms of siege equipment, road building, forts and small weaponry. They also had very good tactics enabling them to conquer the brave and tough yet unorganized 'barbarians'.
Their language unified the entire Mediterranean area so that they could recruit foreign troops who functioned in their ranks as good as anyone else.
It's a shame their downfall was because of internal turmoils, high reliance on slavery and a bunch of mean Germanic tribes pushed forward by the Huns.
You can't really judge special forces against each other, unless you put them against each other in combat.
Many of each side's greatest feats are still classified.
Many of each side's greatest feats are still classified.
a teacher of mine at Indiana Unversity was Israeli special forces. apparently he did some crazy shit during the 80'stjocka_vita_kisset wrote:
The Israel amry kicked ass in the 6 day war!!!
My god! Has the CIA employed black people?!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
knowing those guys exist gives chills down my spine.Cougar wrote:
CIA Black Operatives.
LozGawwad wrote:
My god! Has the CIA employed black people?!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
knowing those guys exist gives chills down my spine.Cougar wrote:
CIA Black Operatives.
I personally think the Medieval Irish Army was pretty pwn. The Irish had a very well organized army based around militia tactics with an elite corps of (Scottish) mercenaries and native Irish.
Bahahaha.DesertFox- wrote:
Salvation Army, best unit was that one led by General Mills.
Oh, and there were quite a bit more Spartans than just 300. That movie is only loosely based on actual fact.
Last edited by BeerzGod (2007-07-05 20:37:43)
Whats this I read about the CIA black ops?
Never heard of them.
Never heard of them.
Salvation Army. Why? Because they're always helping poor people.
That is not all that Special Forces are tasked to do. While they can do that, a lot of the problems in airstrikes comes from HumInt. gone wrong. Achmed here doesn't like Abdul there and so he tells the Americans he's a Baath supporter. Bombs are dropped, people are killed, shit happens, it's a war. I don't condone the deaths of civilians but I don't expect them to be avoided. I have a lot of Special Ops buddies and I take offense at seeing them called some of the worst fighters in the world. I would like to see you tell that to a Recon Marine, Delta Operator, Green Beret, SEAL, or any of our dozens of special friends. As for your competition, I wouldn't use that as a factual reference for superiority. If you could tell me what specific type of Spec Ops they competed against, I may be more agreeing with you. Yes, the FFL and SAS are pretty badass, but so are the Americans.dc_involved wrote:
Off the top of my head iraq springs to mind. Special forces are usually responsible for identifying key targets in a conflict. I can't think of another country that flattened as many marketplaces and homes whilst managing not to eliminate targets.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
this statement perplexes me. care to elaborate as to how you came to that conclusion my dear friend?dc_involved wrote:
To be fair America probably have one of the worst special forces in the world.
I've been trying to locate it to no avail at the mo, but i remember seeing a programme where the FFL, SAS and American equivalent all competed on an assault course and america lost bigtime. FFL whipped arse, SAS close behind and america hours behind
ON TOPIC: I believe the Roman Legions at there peak would be the dominating force, because they knew how to fight, had superior discipline, Rapid Response Time, Technological Advantages, Fine Leadership, etc.
Last edited by Major.League.Infidel (2007-07-06 00:35:06)
Regardless of the movie, the story is that there were 300 Spartiates (slaves don't count!).BeerzGod wrote:
Oh, and there were quite a bit more Spartans than just 300. That movie is only loosely based on actual fact.
The Irish? Hillarious; on about every major military event they screwed up! Don't get me wrong I'm a great "fan" of the Irish (studied Celtic languages & culture for a while, and I play the harp), but they're about the most unable people to organize anything. There never even was a "Medieval Irish Army". Brian Boru's coalition to kick the vikings was well enough to do the job, but not great and it still was more of a gathering of warriors than an army. Medb and Cuchulain probably did exist, but the stories are myths evidently. The Irish did have a significant monastic influence and, in their golden age, were perhaps the most scholared of the Western world also exelling in the area of craftsmanship. But no way that any Irish ever, would qualify for "all time best army".The_Mac wrote:
I personally think the Medieval Irish Army was pretty pwn. The Irish had a very well organized army based around militia tactics with an elite corps of (Scottish) mercenaries and native Irish.
Edit: the only ones they really "pwn'ed" were other Irish next door
Last edited by Lai (2007-07-06 01:23:15)
Probably a bad choice of wording on my part, I do understand they are still elite troops. I just think other countries with far less resources train better spec ops. My posts were a bit of a knee jerk reaction to blind american patriotism, I have a bit of an issue with that. I'm british and think the SAS are badass, but realise there are probably better spec ops. I also think the Roman army were the best pound for pound army of all time.Major.League.Infidel wrote:
That is not all that Special Forces are tasked to do. While they can do that, a lot of the problems in airstrikes comes from HumInt. gone wrong. Achmed here doesn't like Abdul there and so he tells the Americans he's a Baath supporter. Bombs are dropped, people are killed, shit happens, it's a war. I don't condone the deaths of civilians but I don't expect them to be avoided. I have a lot of Special Ops buddies and I take offense at seeing them called some of the worst fighters in the world. I would like to see you tell that to a Recon Marine, Delta Operator, Green Beret, SEAL, or any of our dozens of special friends. As for your competition, I wouldn't use that as a factual reference for superiority. If you could tell me what specific type of Spec Ops they competed against, I may be more agreeing with you. Yes, the FFL and SAS are pretty badass, but so are the Americans.dc_involved wrote:
Off the top of my head iraq springs to mind. Special forces are usually responsible for identifying key targets in a conflict. I can't think of another country that flattened as many marketplaces and homes whilst managing not to eliminate targets.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
this statement perplexes me. care to elaborate as to how you came to that conclusion my dear friend?
I've been trying to locate it to no avail at the mo, but i remember seeing a programme where the FFL, SAS and American equivalent all competed on an assault course and america lost bigtime. FFL whipped arse, SAS close behind and america hours behind
ON TOPIC: I believe the Roman Legions at there peak would be the dominating force, because they knew how to fight, had superior discipline, Rapid Response Time, Technological Advantages, Fine Leadership, etc.
I think the FNL army is one of the best armies during the 1900´s. They won the Vietnam war. Even without air supremacy. Nothing more needed to be said.
The frightful old thirds of Spanish infantry, during the XVII century, when Felipe IV governed the Spanish Empire where never hid the sun, I think it was the most powerful army for its resistance and formed the elite of spanish kings of the time, in addition they formed the thirds of sea, which was the first marines of the world.
LOL thats just another GREAT proof of how stupid most yanks are, the american army is fucking useless, only good thing about it, is the air superiortyrdx-fx wrote:
Many countries have "SF" that's equivalent to our Rangers or Marines.Longbow wrote:
I think all 1st world countries have the same SF as US do , maybe they don't have such sums of money but I truly believe that US SF isn't that unique .
Not many have an equivalent to our SF. (and, by SF, I mean 'green berets')Oh, grow up and get over yourself.S/O421 wrote:
Yeah! Didn't they train and arm the Iraqi's back in the 80's against, who was it...
You're grasping at straws in your attempt at bashing the US.The concept of training the natives isn't unique.S/O421 wrote:
That ain't unique, most all of the great armies of old trained some of the natives, and like the US, it was so they could fight against a common enemyrdx-fx wrote:
"Fairly unique in the history of warfare, to have a branch dedicated to training the locals how to fight their own wars in so many different ways"
Having a branch of the Army that's primary mission is training natives and forward recon and diplomacy... that's unique"Worst in the world"?PHILIPS wrote:
ROFL
American Special Forces are some of the worst in the world, the reason why Americans think they are so good,
is because of all the propaganda around them and shit, Navy Seals and Delta Force aint worth jackshit!
Well they are a little better than the Marines but the USMC is a joke aswell.'
The best soldiers today is
1. The SAS
2. Israelian Paratroopers
3. The Hunters Corps (Jægerkorpset)
LMAO..
Yeah, our Green Berets are the worst in the world.. that's why they pretty much won Afghanistan, where the Russians failed for 10 years.
SAS - Amount/time of training is somewhere on par with the US Rangers. Though, their counter-terrorism expertise, and just general high-speed competence makes them truly world class. They'd be in my "Top 5" list of SF groups, for certain.
I'd personally rank them amongst the top-tier Special Operations groups (SEALS, Special Forces, SAS, etc).
But, really.. a "1 week, 40 mile march/land nav exercise with 55 pound rucksack in tactical conditions" as the final exam? meh.. I've done that for fun in the conventional US Army.
Israeli Paratroopers - Great, some high-speed Airborne troops.. so?
Jægerkorpset - The who? Seriously, from what I can find, their training is about as long as the (pre)Ranger Indoctrination Program in the US. ..and, there's only 146 of them?
Majority of US "green berets" are also Rangers and Airborne.
so, a bare minimum of 70 solid weeks of intense training to get a regular army soldier the SF qualification (not including the up-to-60 week foreign language course )
Plus, 9 weeks of Ranger school.. plus, all the 'fun schools' like sniper, HALO, pathfinder, jumpmaster, etc, etc.. and, after about 3+ years of continuous cram-for-all-you're-worth no-sleep live-in-the-dirt schools - you're now a newbie junior SF soldier.
Summary: US SF (green beret) does anything that almost any other special operations force does - and then also knows how to do the work of 5 other spec ops forces.
The US Special forces is only good, because the media makes them look good (american media) i just watched this thing about navy seals, LMAO what a bunch of useless dickheads, i would consider myself more Spec Ops than them, and i only bin in the army for 8 months.
Jægerkorpset the reason why theres only 146, is because its insanely hard to get in, these guys will own any us sf anyday, anytime, anywhere.
Their training takes about 4 years and after that, when they are not send out they get new kinds of training all the time.
Last edited by PHILIPS (2007-07-06 05:37:17)