BF2S Forums ATTACK: IMMlNENT

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

You don't care??!!! AND quoted for effect??!!  No comment to this BS. It pretty much speaks for itself.

That is just stupid. You want to argue about (anyone) thinking the news is total BS - that we don't consider relevant to our daily lives. Is that your hypothesis - (the antithesis of what I think about this so-called news)?

No it is this same dismissal attitude that let Hitler come to power AND Islamic extremists to gain the power they have to date. We keep dismissing it and I feel we will not live to regret it as a society, in the next several decades or a hundred years.

Al Qaeda is equal to Nazi Germany - huh? Excuse me, but no it is not.

I could be convinced that China or Russia has the potential to be a real threat - if circumstances changed - and their postures changed towards the US in very militant aggressive manner.

But I am not even remotely convinced of a serious miltant threat to the US from the Middle East. Were are destabilizing the region, as planned, based upon a hypothesis - not an actual serious war effort against the US.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-07-17 11:01:53)

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

That is just stupid. You want to argue about (anyone) thinking the news is total BS - that we don't consider relevant to our daily lives. Is that your hypothesis - (the antithesis of what I think about this so-called news)?

No it is this same dismissal attitude that let Hitler come to power AND Islamic extremists to gain the power they have to date. We keep dismissing it and I feel we will not live to regret it as a society, in the next several decades or a hundred years.

Al Qaeda is equal to Nazi Germany - huh? Excuse me, but no it is not.

I could be convinced that China or Russia has the potential to be a real threat - if circumstances changed - and their postures changed towards the US in very militant aggressive manner.

But I am not even remotely convinced of a serious miltant threat to the US from the Middle East. Were are destabilizing the region, as planned, based upon a hypothesis - not an actual serious war effort against the US.

I didn't say Al Quaeda is the size of Nazi Germany, I am saying Nazi Germany WAS once the size of AL Queda now, on its way to power.

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

No it is this same dismissal attitude that let Hitler come to power AND Islamic extremists to gain the power they have to date. We keep dismissing it and I feel we will not live to regret it as a society, in the next several decades or a hundred years.

Al Qaeda is equal to Nazi Germany - huh? Excuse me, but no it is not.

I could be convinced that China or Russia has the potential to be a real threat - if circumstances changed - and their postures changed towards the US in very militant aggressive manner.

But I am not even remotely convinced of a serious miltant threat to the US from the Middle East. Were are destabilizing the region, as planned, based upon a hypothesis - not an actual serious war effort against the US.

I didn't say Al Quaeda is the size of Nazi Germany, I am saying Nazi Germany WAS once the size of AL Queda now, on its way to power.

The problem is this administration has cried wolf too many times in the wake of disapproval by it's citizens.  What you are seeing is only a natural reaction.  See "The Boy who cried wolf"

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Al Qaeda is equal to Nazi Germany - huh? Excuse me, but no it is not.

I could be convinced that China or Russia has the potential to be a real threat - if circumstances changed - and their postures changed towards the US in very militant aggressive manner.

But I am not even remotely convinced of a serious miltant threat to the US from the Middle East. Were are destabilizing the region, as planned, based upon a hypothesis - not an actual serious war effort against the US.

I didn't say Al Quaeda is the size of Nazi Germany, I am saying Nazi Germany WAS once the size of AL Queda now, on its way to power.

I am not following your logic.

Everything that was not, and then became something, starts from a small group in the beginning. So what. In the same number of years that the Nazi party rose to power in Germany - what has Al Qaeda done? Beyond mindless insignificant poking at the West? How is Al Qaeda in a nearly twenty year period (1989-2007) - a major international war-threat and equal to Nazi Germany (1933-1945)?

I guess this is where we disagree on this thread. I do not consider Al Queda as only "mindless poking at the US" when it attacked us and killed seversal thousand of our citizens, blew up our warship, destroyed 2 of our embassies. I also do not stop at believing what Al Queda does to the US as the only threat. I consider EVERYTHING they have done to ALL countries as one threat to our society as a whole. It is a war against western civilization and hardy a "mindless poking". At what point will you take pause and deem their presence as worthy of your attention, if not now? Then my question will be, why did you let it esculate t othat point? So be prepared.

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

I didn't say Al Quaeda is the size of Nazi Germany, I am saying Nazi Germany WAS once the size of AL Queda now, on its way to power.

I am not following your logic.

Everything that was not, and then became something, starts from a small group in the beginning. So what. In the same number of years that the Nazi party rose to power in Germany - what has Al Qaeda done? Beyond mindless insignificant poking at the West? How is Al Qaeda in a nearly twenty year period (1989-2007) - a major international war-threat and equal to Nazi Germany (1933-1945)?

I guess this is where we disagree on this thread. I do not consider Al Queda as only "mindless poking at the US" when it attacked us and killed seversal thousand of our citizens, blew up our warship, destroyed 2 of our embassies. I also do not stop at believing what Al Queda does to the US as the only threat. I consider EVERYTHING they have done to ALL countries as one threat to our society as a whole. It is a war against western civilization and hardy a "mindless poking". At what point will you take pause and deem their presence as worthy of your attention, if not now? Then my question will be, why did you let it esculate t othat point? So be prepared.

My question is AQ was not the all powerful presence prior to 9/11 that is is now.  See the current terror warning.  I think this administration has made the country aware of how powerful the US can make an enemy.

GATOR591957 wrote:

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

I am not following your logic.

Everything that was not, and then became something, starts from a small group in the beginning. So what. In the same number of years that the Nazi party rose to power in Germany - what has Al Qaeda done? Beyond mindless insignificant poking at the West? How is Al Qaeda in a nearly twenty year period (1989-2007) - a major international war-threat and equal to Nazi Germany (1933-1945)?

I guess this is where we disagree on this thread. I do not consider Al Queda as only "mindless poking at the US" when it attacked us and killed seversal thousand of our citizens, blew up our warship, destroyed 2 of our embassies. I also do not stop at believing what Al Queda does to the US as the only threat. I consider EVERYTHING they have done to ALL countries as one threat to our society as a whole. It is a war against western civilization and hardy a "mindless poking". At what point will you take pause and deem their presence as worthy of your attention, if not now? Then my question will be, why did you let it esculate t othat point? So be prepared.

My question is AQ was not the all powerful presence prior to 9/11 that is is now.  See the current terror warning.  I think this administration has made the country aware of how powerful the US can make an enemy.

And I can not follow your logic that by ignoring a threat and letting yourselves get attacked that the threat will go away and not get worse. Did we not ignore the attacks all through the 90's and let the attacks go unpunished? Did the attacks not steadily get worse over the years that we ignored them?

usmarine2005 wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

You know what I mean asshole.  Shove that smiley face up your ass.

You have to admit these "Warnings" seem to come just on the heels of rebellion.  Note the "all niter" to be pulled tonight to debate the Iraq war.

I agree and think it is stupid which is what Coug and top need to understand.  However, you are damed if you do and dammed if you don't when it comes to stuff like this.  So why not say it?  If I was in charge of a news channel and ratings, I would say it also.

It's one thing if they have credible evidence, another if they don't.  Most of the time, they don't.  Did daddy never sit you on his knee and tell you about the boy who cried wolf?  Coming out and saying "We has a reports!!!1" IS NOT CREDIBLE EVIDENCE!

So yeah, it's basically the powers that be reciting the same old "DANGER WILL ROBINSON!" every week, in the event something happens they can say "WE WARNED YOU GUYZ!" instead of actually doing something about it.  It's shit.  My point can be proven in the mere point that nothing has come of any of the warnings, and the mere fact that none of the reports cite specific things to be wary of, only vague references to "major infrastructure" which basically narrows it down to.......well, EVERYTHING.

Example for the simple minded among us:

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

Me: usmarine, be careful, you may die today.

You: OK

*Grim Reaper [old age] usmarine*

Me: YOU SEE, YOU SEE, I WARNED HIM, I WARNED HIM, YOU SEE, YOU SEE!! 



Whereas:

Be on alert, Intel has intercepted plans by terrorists to bomb land based transportation hubs.




It's not the same.

lowing wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

lowing wrote:

I guess this is where we disagree on this thread. I do not consider Al Queda as only "mindless poking at the US" when it attacked us and killed seversal thousand of our citizens, blew up our warship, destroyed 2 of our embassies. I also do not stop at believing what Al Queda does to the US as the only threat. I consider EVERYTHING they have done to ALL countries as one threat to our society as a whole. It is a war against western civilization and hardy a "mindless poking". At what point will you take pause and deem their presence as worthy of your attention, if not now? Then my question will be, why did you let it esculate t othat point? So be prepared.

My question is AQ was not the all powerful presence prior to 9/11 that is is now.  See the current terror warning.  I think this administration has made the country aware of how powerful the US can make an enemy.

And I can not follow your logic that by ignoring a threat and letting yourselves get attacked that the threat will go away and not get worse. Did we not ignore the attacks all through the 90's and let the attacks go unpunished? Did the attacks not steadily get worse over the years that we ignored them?

Not ignoring threats, but godamnit if your going to warn us, actually give us some sort of info, not just a:

TERRORIST ARE GOING TO ATTACK, BE CAREFUL

Thats just stupid and not necessary.  The fact this shit comes through every week is what I'm talking about.  If they actually WARNED us not to do or go somewhere in particular, then that is a proper warning.

After the initial death, destruction, and fear of a terrorist attack the resulting solidification of the people in this country to unite and kill all extremists only makes their cause futile.

lowing wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

I didn't say Al Qaeda is the size of Nazi Germany, I am saying Nazi Germany WAS once the size of AL Qaeda now, on its way to power.

I am not following your logic.

Everything that was not, and then became something, starts from a small group in the beginning. So what. In the same number of years that the Nazi party rose to power in Germany - what has Al Qaeda done? Beyond mindless insignificant poking at the West? How is Al Qaeda in a nearly twenty year period (1989-2007) - a major international war-threat and equal to Nazi Germany (1933-1945)?

I guess this is where we disagree on this thread. I do not consider Al Qaeda as only "mindless poking at the US" when it attacked us and killed seversal thousand of our citizens, blew up our warship, destroyed 2 of our embassies. I also do not stop at believing what Al Queda does to the US as the only threat. I consider EVERYTHING they have done to ALL countries as one threat to our society as a whole. It is a war against western civilization and hardy a "mindless poking". At what point will you take pause and deem their presence as worthy of your attention, if not now? Then my question will be, why did you let it esculate t othat point? So be prepared.

Terrorism is mindless poking. It's objectives lack clarity and purpose beyond the "fear" reason. A terrorist objective does not in any way have the same agenda as a real war effort. The larger the enemy - the more likely a terror objective - can achieve absolutely nothing of consequence in the end. The west will not end & the great Satan is not bothered by these mosquitoes. This "we will scare you" crap - only works if you get scared. I am not. There is no serious terrorist threat to the US. It is not to be likened to a serious war effort (like Nazi Germany; and our entrance into that war is complicated and is nothing like the region de-stabilizing war-effort objective we are currently involved in).

1.)  I am not as privileged as you - in assumption or knowledge - that 9/11 happened in a way that I can discount culpability to the current Administration (i.e. that it did not serve someone's pre-conceived middle-east agenda).

2.) National Security issues - do not equal - the need to form a war effort. Securing the border, dealing with terrorism in any form (home grown, or influenced from afar), etc - are not war efforts - any more than a "war on drugs" is an actual war. National Security issues, crime in any form, social concerns do not amount to a war. No one is saying a Nation should not have an army, a police force, or be unconcerned about threats to it. I am saying it is clearly a distortion - this so-called "war on terror" and the threat from militant Islam. They have crafted an enemy based upon a pre-conceived agenda. These types of reports are part of that agenda.

3.) Every Al Qaeda activity you mentioned - proves my point. That they have achieved nothing. Any "fear" generated by their activities serves another group's agenda more so than their own.

4.) Putting it into perspective - even if you let a 9/11 event - happen once every year - for a ten year period. It would not remotely dent the infrastructure of the West. It would not be in any way equal to the number of deaths at the hands of Americans to other Americans (3,000 x 10 years of unchecked terrorism would equal 30 buildings an 30,000 deaths; and 10 years of murder equals zero major buildings and 150,000 deaths). But no one is saying you should just let it happen, I am saying it is a clear distortion that lacks any perspective.

+

5.) What he said, Kmarion wrote: I'm confused. When there are no specific credible threats they issue warnings. When our hard working intelligence officials have determined specific areas of concern it is kept secret for "operational reasons". http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 … of-gl.html

Last edited by topal63 (2007-07-17 12:51:01)

Kmarion wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ratings

Note that CNN is just reporting on the "Intelligence Estimate". If you want it from the horses mouth it's here: http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20070717_release.pdf

I'm confused. When there are no specific credible threats they issue warnings. When our hard working intelligence officials have determined specific areas of concern it is kept secret for "operational reasons". http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 … of-gl.html

Did you forget less than a week ago this phrase, "I have no evidence, but I have a gut feeling"

I don't know where.

I don't know when.

But something Terrible is going to happen.