Pages: 1

 

Poll

Would mandatory detention work in America?

Yes20%20% - 1
No60%60% - 3
Unsure20%20% - 1
Total: 5
2007-07-19 02:11:07
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7117|Canberra, AUS
Rereading the info on the Tampa crisis, this sparked (no pun intended) an interesting idea regarding the America-Mexico immigration situation.

Australia has quite a severe illegal immigration. People come (in boats) from all over the place, but mostly through Indonesia, following the abolition of the White Australia Policy. In 1992, mandatory detention was introduced with bipartisan support (a very rare thing in a political scene just as, if not more, partisan than the American).

Basically the policy is that if you enter the country illegally, you are detained in special centres in Australia our outside via the Pacific Solution.

Would this policy work in the US? It would be useful I think if it did, but there are number of problems I see.

1. Australia is basically an island. Yes, it is technically a continent, but the fact remains you can't walk to Australia if you aren't already in it. That means illegal immigration is purely through illegal boats (usually ill-constructed fishing vessels), which makes it damned easy to pick up big groups - 20, 50, 100 or more at a time. AFAIK this is nothing like what America experiences - people come on their own (well, in small groups) without warning.

2. Then there's the moral issue. Morally, it's shady - I mean... look up some of the stuff on the net to learn more. For one thing, it won't earn you any favours from anybody. Australia has copped a fair bit of flak over it.

But still, IF (emphasise: IF) it works...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-07-19 02:24:28
T.Pike
99 Problems . . .
+187|6725|Pennsyltucky

NO.  There are too damn many of them.

The costs would be prohibitive.
2007-07-19 02:31:56
golgoj4
Member
+51|7217|North Hollywood
I dont think detention is the right answer so much as removing their reason to leave in the 1st place. But that is well...tricky.

We have to give these people some hope so they stop abandoning their country. But the only way I can honestly see that happening is a new colonialism where countries like Britain, the Us and some of the other European countries and basically leverage these peoples desire to rise above poverty to build a new society. But thats a far fetched idea. Most people hate the US right now, I don't know how they feel about Europe. But honestly this is how i feel we should deal with Mexico. Sure the US gov't is corrupt. But we have some standards. Americans aren't fleeing for en masse for canada, so we must be doing something right.

So, frack it, why not make some of these countries with extreme emigration colonies again and 'bring them up to speed' so to speak. Schools, infrastructure. Training. the things that make a modern society with people who can sustain themselves. Granted there will be hiccups and no system is perfect. Blame us humans for that or socialism would be the way to.

Some reasons I don't see it working in the US (detention or otherwise):

Corporate America likes a cheap labor force, worldwide.

The kennedys  & Co. would shit their pants having a hissy fit because they are so far in the pocket of illegal immigration they have to be giving someone a handy...

The 'church' who likes a large catholic voting block. And besides, people need god when they are downtrodden. Not saying thats everyone, but they are just con-men in my opinion.


When will someone get some balls and fucking do something? the issue is so big @ this point they could get a footnote in history im sure. People say use my vote. But what happens when the game is fixed and the house always wins?

Last edited by golgoj4 (2007-07-19 02:36:51)

2007-07-19 04:31:13
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7094|USA

golgoj4 wrote:

I dont think detention is the right answer so much as removing their reason to leave in the 1st place. But that is well...tricky.

We have to give these people some hope so they stop abandoning their country. But the only way I can honestly see that happening is a new colonialism where countries like Britain, the Us and some of the other European countries and basically leverage these peoples desire to rise above poverty to build a new society. But thats a far fetched idea. Most people hate the US right now, I don't know how they feel about Europe. But honestly this is how i feel we should deal with Mexico. Sure the US gov't is corrupt. But we have some standards. Americans aren't fleeing for en masse for canada, so we must be doing something right.

So, frack it, why not make some of these countries with extreme emigration colonies again and 'bring them up to speed' so to speak. Schools, infrastructure. Training. the things that make a modern society with people who can sustain themselves. Granted there will be hiccups and no system is perfect. Blame us humans for that or socialism would be the way to.

Some reasons I don't see it working in the US (detention or otherwise):

Corporate America likes a cheap labor force, worldwide.

The kennedys  & Co. would shit their pants having a hissy fit because they are so far in the pocket of illegal immigration they have to be giving someone a handy...

The 'church' who likes a large catholic voting block. And besides, people need god when they are downtrodden. Not saying thats everyone, but they are just con-men in my opinion.


When will someone get some balls and fucking do something? the issue is so big @ this point they could get a footnote in history im sure. People say use my vote. But what happens when the game is fixed and the house always wins?
All those that hate us is for not minding our own business. SOoooooooooooooooooooo, lets start. the worlds problems are not ours to bare. We prosper because of our capitalist society,( The other reason we are hated). In order for countries to improve they will have to adopt simular attitudes. Of course this won't happen because that would take some admitting that our way provides quality of life and their 5000 year old  cultures are nothing but destructive. Good luck with that.

Besides most of these countries leaders would rather just take the aid money the US gives them and pocket it for themselves I am sure
2007-07-19 05:25:29
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7117|Canberra, AUS

lowing wrote:

golgoj4 wrote:

I dont think detention is the right answer so much as removing their reason to leave in the 1st place. But that is well...tricky.

We have to give these people some hope so they stop abandoning their country. But the only way I can honestly see that happening is a new colonialism where countries like Britain, the Us and some of the other European countries and basically leverage these peoples desire to rise above poverty to build a new society. But thats a far fetched idea. Most people hate the US right now, I don't know how they feel about Europe. But honestly this is how i feel we should deal with Mexico. Sure the US gov't is corrupt. But we have some standards. Americans aren't fleeing for en masse for canada, so we must be doing something right.

So, frack it, why not make some of these countries with extreme emigration colonies again and 'bring them up to speed' so to speak. Schools, infrastructure. Training. the things that make a modern society with people who can sustain themselves. Granted there will be hiccups and no system is perfect. Blame us humans for that or socialism would be the way to.

Some reasons I don't see it working in the US (detention or otherwise):

Corporate America likes a cheap labor force, worldwide.

The kennedys  & Co. would shit their pants having a hissy fit because they are so far in the pocket of illegal immigration they have to be giving someone a handy...

The 'church' who likes a large catholic voting block. And besides, people need god when they are downtrodden. Not saying thats everyone, but they are just con-men in my opinion.


When will someone get some balls and fucking do something? the issue is so big @ this point they could get a footnote in history im sure. People say use my vote. But what happens when the game is fixed and the house always wins?
All those that hate us is for not minding our own business. SOoooooooooooooooooooo, lets start. the worlds problems are not ours to bare. We prosper because of our capitalist society,( The other reason we are hated). In order for countries to improve they will have to adopt simular attitudes. Of course this won't happen because that would take some admitting that our way provides quality of life and their 5000 year old  cultures are nothing but destructive. Good luck with that.

Besides most of these countries leaders would rather just take the aid money the US gives them and pocket it for themselves I am sure
On the last point: There I have to concede. Many, many, MANY countries (especially in Africa) are ruled by corrupt scumbags who couldn't give two shits about the common man as long as every bread in their basket is aligned the right way. There are too many cases of bilateral aid (govt-govt aid) gone awry to name. The staggering amount of red tape that aid goes through doesn't help either.

However, a capitalist society only works if you have capital in the first place. These countries don't HAVE capital - that's why their not developed and need aid. Where is that capital going to come from, if not from aid? They can't make their own - not without the skills and technology provided by 1st-world countries - which brings us back to aid again.

EDIT: But I've derailed my own thread. Back on topic.

Last edited by Spark (2007-07-19 05:26:37)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman

 

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