stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7162|California

We cannot win Global Warming.

Reasons.

1. Gas output.
-Our gas emissions have increased 1,000 fold since the early 1900's. Coal, Natural Gas, Oil, Cars, Cows, all that fun stuff. People are bitching all around the world to decrease our gas output by driving electric cars, decreasing electrical use, etc.

Not going to happen. Our world is so intertwined with the burning of fossil fuels, that we will never be able to stop.

https://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/climate_change/images/global_temp1.jpg

That is projected temperature flux over the next 50 years. For those that dont understand, it will be hotter, longer; and colder, well... never again.
Gas at current rate (because it will never go down) will make the Earth nice and warm for the next thousand years.

2. Oceans.
-Ah, the unseen counterpart to GW
https://williamcalvin.com/img/NADWretouched.jpg

This is the NAC (North Atlantic Current). It brings warm water north to the upper Atlantic. When the ice of the north and south poles melts, its fresh water. When salt and fresh water mix, there becomes less saltiness (desalinization). When this happens, warm water from the Atlantic doesn't transfer as much to the Current. When enough ice has melted, the current will shut down. Think The Day After Tomorrow, but slower. Weather patterns all around the world would change. For the worst. Same things would happen with major currents across the Pacific and Indian. This stage is already happening, as a lot of once permanent Ice is melting. Stopping outputs doesn't stop the cycle.

3. Heat.
-Duh, Global Warming.
Holes in the Ozone, because of Us. Its hotter everywhere. It will get hotter, and hotter. As more of the ozone is taken out by lingering gasses, UV index will go up, skin cancer +10.

What most preachers of Anti Global Warming fail to realize is this fact. Theres no turning back. Al Gore says theres hope, but there isn't. The planet will get a few degrees warmer every year, until a climate shift.


But in the ash of disaster lies the seeds of hope.

Rising this high on the chart means only one thing, A hard fall. Very hard.

https://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/images/16IceAge.jpg
That is what one of the last Ice Ages looked like. Sea Ice extends hundreds of miles offshore. New canyons are formed, glaciers sweep over the surface.

With all the warming, the Earth will have to equalize eventually. We're talking massive equalize. When I did research for school on Glaciers and Ice Ages, I got a chance to look at ice cores from the North Pole. Finding out how big an ice age can be very simple:

You look at

Amount of Concentrated Gasses
            Extent of Ice Age

this shows a rough estimate of a severity model. Lets say that the concentration of CO2 from the last Ice Age was 60 ppm (not actual figure).

--The last Ice Age ended ~30 million years ago. Ice from it Carved Yosemite, gave the Alps their steep faces, and created lakes all over the world.

Lets think of Today. 200 ppm... That was before people. Way before. Now that there is people, lets take a guess. It would probably be closer to 100,000 ppm (again, used for emphasis)

If ice from the last Ice Age extended down into the Midwest US, and To the Alps. Lets think.

The Ice from the next ice age would cover the Earth. Sea Ice would extend to Hawaii. Glaciers 2 miles thick would glide across Texas. Shit would get cold.

But the world would start over. Life would begin again. The climate would get warmer again. Trees would grow, birds would sing. Flowers would bloom. The question is, will Humans be there.

We Can't stop global warming. And to all my fellow humans out there, top off your fuel tank, turn on your air conditioner during peak hours, and wait for the unavoidable.
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|7019|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!
Humm i dont believe that we are totally fucked... Yeah its sure that the earth is only doing it natural cycle (way faster because of us tho) but i think we might slowly bring it back to a much more normal pace...we CANT stop it but can make the impact way less worst.


Btw...it make me think of 2142 scenario
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7162|California

Roger Lesboules wrote:

Humm i dont believe that we are totally fucked... Yeah its sure that the earth is only doing it natural cycle (way faster because of us tho) but i think we might slowly bring it back to a much more normal pace...we CANT stop it but can make the impact way less worst.


Btw...it make me think of 2142 scenario
In Theory we could slow the process, but heres the catch.

Take the hose in your backyard. Turn it on and let it run for a while. Turn it off and what happens? Water will continue to come out of that hose for 20 minutes.

The same with emissions. If we completely cut off now, the remaining gas will still be plentiful enough to do the damage its needs to.

I believe John Muir said it best upon his first trip to the Sierra Nevada's

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
When we single out emissions, we need to look at water; electricity, recycling, shipping, construction, deforestation, drainage, solar activity, gravity.

To change one, we have to change all
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6997
It looks like I need to buy a coat. Nice OP by the way.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7162|California

CameronPoe wrote:

It looks like I need to buy a coat. Nice OP by the way.
may I suggest polar bear with bald eagle lining? Better act quick or there will be nothing left to make a coat out of.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7208|UK
Good OP but flawed. Like the statement that it will get warmer everywhere is wrong. It doesnt work like that. This kind of mindless confusion is the reason they gave it a name change to climate change. There will be a global average temperature increase, but that doesnt mean it will just be hot everywhere, it means some places will get very hot temperatures while elsewhere it may be snowing like mental. Even if we cant even slow it. One thing is for sure, we physically cant keep using fossil fuels, the price will rise so much it will become uneconomical. We need to start wining off them now before theres a huge price to pay when we suddenly need to change.
tjocka_vita_kisset
The Sweede
+15|6586|Malmö, Sweden
ok, we are fucked!

Let´s keep driving thoose 400 yards to buy a sixpack!!!
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7162|California

Vilham wrote:

Good OP but flawed. Like the statement that it will get warmer everywhere is wrong. It doesnt work like that. This kind of mindless confusion is the reason they gave it a name change to climate change. There will be a global average temperature increase, but that doesnt mean it will just be hot everywhere, it means some places will get very hot temperatures while elsewhere it may be snowing like mental. Even if we cant even slow it. One thing is for sure, we physically cant keep using fossil fuels, the price will rise so much it will become uneconomical. We need to start wining off them now before theres a huge price to pay when we suddenly need to change.
I meant the warming comments as a worldwide change. Personally I know that everywhere won't be getting hotter. changes of 1c and things of that nature
Arcano-D.E.S
Member
+13|6988
We are to dumb to fix the problem. I say we dump it in our children's laps and leave them another thing to be disappointed in is about. We should enjoy the weather while it lasts because our kids are gonna turn the temperature down and we'll be old and whining about it.
agent146
Member
+127|6829|Jesus Land aka Canada
i am a dick; all i say is this: i believe in global warming but i don't worry much about it....untill i really have to. usually by then it would be to late
bargarse
Member
+1|6591
i reckon global warming is a problem..not for the temperature increase thing but for the kaos that will unfold from the fuels running out...well before the water swallows us all up.......apparently this planet has experienced many ice ages and temp increases etc and will to come.....life will always exist but we may die...we are not the centre of the universe so we should just relax a little and let nature run its course....who really cares anyway.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7117|Canberra, AUS
I don't think any serious scientist denies that serious damage will be done purely on what has already happened.

But, according to Tim Flannery, we can save 2 out of 3 species doomed to extinction IF we put a brake on it.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7163|Sydney, Australia

bargarse wrote:

i reckon global warming is a problem..not for the temperature increase thing but for the kaos that will unfold from the fuels running out...well before the water swallows us all up
That is quite a valid point.

The global political and economic climate revolves around our ability to transport goods/people across the world. There are literally 10's of thousands of ships and planes in the oceans and air at this very moment. For these, the only viable fuels are petroleum based. As such, when we run out of the stuff, the world will be plunged into chaos.

But no, it won't happen overnight. It will happen gradually. Prices will increase eventually until one nation starts a war for the oil supplies. The shit will hit the fan, with the rest of the world joining in.

Hell, come to think about it, there might not be that many people left to witness the rising waters.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7199|Argentina
Why not help what we can curb?
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7107|NT, like Mick Dundee

mcminty wrote:

bargarse wrote:

i reckon global warming is a problem..not for the temperature increase thing but for the kaos that will unfold from the fuels running out...well before the water swallows us all up
That is quite a valid point.

The global political and economic climate revolves around our ability to transport goods/people across the world. There are literally 10's of thousands of ships and planes in the oceans and air at this very moment. For these, the only viable fuels are petroleum based. As such, when we run out of the stuff, the world will be plunged into chaos.

But no, it won't happen overnight. It will happen gradually. Prices will increase eventually until one nation starts a war for the oil supplies. The shit will hit the fan, with the rest of the world joining in.

Hell, come to think about it, there might not be that many people left to witness the rising waters.
Aye, the shit will hit the fan. In our lifetime's too I'm betting.


The question is, what will become of Australia, that will be interesting. We have close ties to the USA, UK and.... China.


We also have more uranium than everybody else. A shitload more. WHO WANTS DU ARMOUR, DU SHELLS AND NUKES? ROLL UP, ROLL UP, COME ONE AND COME ALL!
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Penetrator
Certified Twat
+296|6950|Bournemouth, South England
We can all help to cool the world.  Everyone take your refridgerator outside, plug it in, and smash the back of it open.  It will release lovely cold air into the atmosphere.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6728
We can't stop the global temperature from rising, but we can change how much it will rise. A rise of a couple of degrees isn't too catastophic. A rise of 6+ degrees could be the end of humanity.

PureFodder wrote:

Here's a link to a summary of a book on global warming based a wide review of scientific literature.
http://www.marklynas.org/2007/4/23/six- … e-guardian
some highlights;

1 degree warmer.
Kiss goodbye to the US beef and corn market as great big chunks of western USA turn into something akin to the Sahara desert.

2 degrees warmer.
Severe droughts in California, Peru and Europe. At the very minimum a 50cm raise in the ocean level and heatwaves that will likely cause tens of thousands of deaths in Europe.

3 degrees warmer.
Droughts cause the Amazon rainforest to dry so much that it burns down in an epic firestorm (also causing further global warming)
Australia and large parts of Southern Africa turn into deserts, decimating the agriculture.

4 degrees warmer
Arctic permafrost in Siberia and Arctic are no longer in a permafrost region and begin the long melting process, eventually adding 5m to the global sea level over hundreds of years.

5 degrees warmer
Methane hydrates slowly begin to melt, slowly but surely increasing global warming. No permanent ice at either pole.

6 degrees warmer.
Last time this happened it wiped out 95% of life on Earth.

Just so everyone is fairly clear what the stakes are in this. If we ignore global warming and it turns out to be real it won't mean slightly warmer winters. The stakes are fairly high on this one,err on the side of caution or ignore it and wait to see what happens. The choice is up to us.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7107|NT, like Mick Dundee

PureFodder wrote:

Australia... turn into deserts, decimating the agriculture.
BAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....



No shit Sherlock Holmes... Does anybody else find this hilarious? Sorry, but something like 1/3 of the continent is already a desert and about 2/3 is un usable for agriculture... We are already in the throes of the longest drought in our history...

Oh the irony........................... This is already happening/happened in Australia.



Err, by the way if the Amazon burns down the world is fucked. End of story. It's the major source of oxygen on the planet.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6815|Kyiv, Ukraine
Well, as soon as our good ol' military industrial complex figures out a way to put "War on Warming" on the Fox marquis, then I'm sure we'll have our military fighting another unwinnable war against a concept.  How did that War on Drugs work out, did we win?
PureFodder
Member
+225|6728

Flecco wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Australia... turn into deserts, decimating the agriculture.
BAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....



No shit Sherlock Holmes... Does anybody else find this hilarious? Sorry, but something like 1/3 of the continent is already a desert and about 2/3 is un usable for agriculture... We are already in the throes of the longest drought in our history...

Oh the irony........................... This is already happening/happened in Australia.



Err, by the way if the Amazon burns down the world is fucked. End of story. It's the major source of oxygen on the planet.
But this will affect the last third, ie. the complete screwing over of Australia. Plus there really isn't just a simple relationship between getting hotter and creating deserts. The rainforests are after all hot and wet. The Sahara desert for example will most likely become a nicely fertile region as the global temperature increases.

Anyway, chances are most people on these forums aren't intimately knowlegable of Australia's geography and current climatic conditions.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7107|NT, like Mick Dundee

PureFodder wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Err, by the way if the Amazon burns down the world is fucked. End of story. It's the major source of oxygen on the planet.
But this will affect the last third, ie. the complete screwing over of Australia. Plus there really isn't just a simple relationship between getting hotter and creating deserts. The rainforests are after all hot and wet. The Sahara desert for example will most likely become a nicely fertile region as the global temperature increases.

Anyway, chances are most people on these forums aren't intimately knowlegable of Australia's geography and current climatic conditions.
I know all this, I am intimately aware of the bulk of Australia's geography and climatic conditions for the last 500 years.

I know it will fuck the last third, the thing is, the process has started already and as this drought drags on it becomes more and more detrimental to Australia's agricultural community, who seem to be refusing to look at the altertatives to just waiting out the drought on government money. The Murray-Darling Basin is going downhill rapidly, though there is some hope for that region... The Wheat Belt of WA........... Well, good luck to them. There are alternatives, which as I said nobody will look at because they are too 'scary', one man (who I can get the name of tomorrow, don't have it at the moment) has been working on a solution for about 15 years and has come up with a practicable, workable and proven solution that turned his property from salt-flats to a fertile lot of land with a decent water supply again in remarkable speed. He also lost his wife, business and went bankrupt in the process due to lack of faith in his techniques by the community; which happen to be the exact opposite of what people thought and still do think should be done.

Has anybody started a thread on Permaculture on this site? I don't think anybody's mentioned it before. Probably not the right audience anyway... I myself have no particular interest in it but my father is a firm believer and practitioner of it.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7204

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

How did that War on Drugs work out, did we win?
Oh so sad.  You actually think.......

Look.  What you just said is why global warming war will fail.

Why can't you win war on drugs?  Because people want them.
Why can't you win on energy conservation and land conservation?  People want energy and land.

So you guys can blame the military, the government, whoever you want, but there is only one place to look and that is the mirror.
mikkel
Member
+383|7043
Speaking in definite terms about what mankind is and isn't able to achieve has invariably led to people having to eat their own words.

Nothing is impossible, however unlikely sceptics may find it.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7012|Portland, OR, USA

usmarine2005 wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

How did that War on Drugs work out, did we win?
Oh so sad.  You actually think.......

Look.  What you just said is why global warming war will fail.

Why can't you win war on drugs?  Because people want them.
Why can't you win on energy conservation and land conservation?  People want energy and land.

So you guys can blame the military, the government, whoever you want, but there is only one place to look and that is the mirror.
True, but when you hear shit about the government and oil companies shutting down people who are trying to/have made cars that run on hydrogen or water and would decrease our dependence of oil and reduce the emissions of some of these gases you can't help but wonder...

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