So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.jonsimon wrote:
It is called voting with your feet. When you are unhappy and feel helpless you leave. Staying would imply you are not unhappy. To boot, I have read about the state of jews in Iran, and until Israel, they lived comfortably just like any other Iranian, holding military and government jobs without persecution. Even jewish women were allowed to hold government positions, until Israel.nlsme wrote:
That does not mean they are HAPPY where they are.
Why don't you produce a source quoting unhappy jews, if you are so convinced?nlsme wrote:
So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.jonsimon wrote:
It is called voting with your feet. When you are unhappy and feel helpless you leave. Staying would imply you are not unhappy. To boot, I have read about the state of jews in Iran, and until Israel, they lived comfortably just like any other Iranian, holding military and government jobs without persecution. Even jewish women were allowed to hold government positions, until Israel.nlsme wrote:
That does not mean they are HAPPY where they are.
Just thought I should point out that Israel was the one doing the attacking in the 6 day war. They started the war with a pre-emptive strike against the Egyptian airforce.FEOS wrote:
OK I read 242. I can see how some would view it as strictly a territorial dispute. However, based on the rhetoric that comes out of the Muslim countries surrounding Israel (those would also be the ones who attacked Israel during the 6-Day and Yom Kippur Wars), this is clearly a religious conflict...242 is just window dressing for those who want to destroy Israel.
Another point is that everyone seems obsessed with Arabs wanting to destroy Israel. It's a 2 way thing. Destroying Palestine is also a desire of the many of the Jewish people.
Each side is as extremist as the other.Menachem Begin, ex-Israeli Prime Minister wrote:
The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. The Land of Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever
There's a documentary called Jews of Iran.nlsme wrote:
So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.jonsimon wrote:
It is called voting with your feet. When you are unhappy and feel helpless you leave. Staying would imply you are not unhappy. To boot, I have read about the state of jews in Iran, and until Israel, they lived comfortably just like any other Iranian, holding military and government jobs without persecution. Even jewish women were allowed to hold government positions, until Israel.nlsme wrote:
That does not mean they are HAPPY where they are.
Maybe you should watch it. Get a better insight into the situation.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-07-25 11:13:09)
Why don't you produce a source of happy jews? I didn't bring this up for debate. BTW I know some jews. There is my source. Their mind. Their beleifs. THEIR WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!jonsimon wrote:
Why don't you produce a source quoting unhappy jews, if you are so convinced?nlsme wrote:
So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.jonsimon wrote:
It is called voting with your feet. When you are unhappy and feel helpless you leave. Staying would imply you are not unhappy. To boot, I have read about the state of jews in Iran, and until Israel, they lived comfortably just like any other Iranian, holding military and government jobs without persecution. Even jewish women were allowed to hold government positions, until Israel.
I am not buying that, but it does bring a good point. It says the director highlights the VAST DISCRIMINATION OF JEWS IN IRAN. How could that HONESTLY be something to be HAPPY about?Bertster7 wrote:
There's a documentary called Jews of Iran.nlsme wrote:
So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.jonsimon wrote:
It is called voting with your feet. When you are unhappy and feel helpless you leave. Staying would imply you are not unhappy. To boot, I have read about the state of jews in Iran, and until Israel, they lived comfortably just like any other Iranian, holding military and government jobs without persecution. Even jewish women were allowed to hold government positions, until Israel.
Maybe you should watch it. Get a better insight into the situation.
Debate 101 (when trying to discredit someones arguement with a source, MAKE SURE IT CONFLICTS WITH THEIR ARGUMENT!!!!!!)nlsme wrote:
I am not buying that, but it does bring a good point. It says the director highlights the VAST DISCRIMINATION OF JEWS IN IRAN. How could that HONESTLY be something to be HAPPY about?Bertster7 wrote:
There's a documentary called Jews of Iran.nlsme wrote:
So for the past 60+years they have lived in persecution? Don't forget that Iran denies the holocaust. How can jews be HAPPY with that. Staying in Iran does NOT mean they are HAPPY. They might be poor, scared, intimidated, or just dont wanna leave their family. A lot of things can mae someone stay where they are unhappy.Not only that but 35000 is more of a minority then Albanians in Florida. Really small number!!!!!!!!!! Tells me that maybe many HAVE LEFT because they were UNHAPPY.
Maybe you should watch it. Get a better insight into the situation.
You know jews living in Iran personally? I find that difficult to believe. Also, neither did I bring up the debate. For the record, you were the first person to debate the happiness of jews in Iran.nlsme wrote:
Why don't you produce a source of happy jews? I didn't bring this up for debate. BTW I know some jews. There is my source. Their mind. Their beleifs. THEIR WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by jonsimon (2007-07-25 11:22:55)
For the record I was the first to DEBATE A SOURCELESS CLAIM. Another thing, no I don't know any Iranian Jews. Few REALLY do. But i did just ask a jew friend of mine IF A JEW COULD BE HAPPY IN IRAN. He laughed. And btw, the post bedore my last one is my SOURCE FOR UNHAPPY JEWS!!!!jonsimon wrote:
You know jews living in Iran personally? I find that difficult to believe. Also, neither did I bring up the debate. For the record, you were the first person to debate the happiness of jews in Iran.nlsme wrote:
Why don't you produce a source of happy jews? I didn't bring this up for debate. BTW I know some jews. There is my source. Their mind. Their beleifs. THEIR WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously Jews living in Iran face prejudice, discrimination and hardship.nlsme wrote:
Debate 101 (when trying to discredit someones arguement with a source, MAKE SURE IT CONFLICTS WITH THEIR ARGUMENT!!!!!!)nlsme wrote:
I am not buying that, but it does bring a good point. It says the director highlights the VAST DISCRIMINATION OF JEWS IN IRAN. How could that HONESTLY be something to be HAPPY about?Bertster7 wrote:
There's a documentary called Jews of Iran.
Maybe you should watch it. Get a better insight into the situation.
What the documentary explores is their relationship with the country they live in and love. The Jews remaining in Iran are very nationalistic. They would rather live in Iran and face discrimination than live anywhere else.
Again much of this stems from the isolationist nature of Jewish communities who typically segregate themselves from the societies in which they live, of course this is secondary to the official discrimination they face outside their tight knit communities - where they live, isolated from the rest of Iranian society. This does little to help soften the views of the Iranian people towards them, but does allow them to live their lives in the way they choose. They are living their lives in the manner of their choosing.
Therefore they are happier living in Iran than they would be living elsewhere. Therefore they are as happy as can reasonably be expected.
I find it amusing that you immediately jump to the conclusion I'm trying to discredit your argument, because obviously under a non-Islamic (or at least less hardcore) regime in Iran, the Persian Jews would live happier lives. I was implying that your argument is built on supposition, which is no way to make a case, and that you should try looking into the facts of the situation - since your points of argument thus far have been virtually non-existent.
I was just clarifying that you lied when you said, "I didn't bring this up for debate."nlsme wrote:
For the record I was the first to DEBATE A SOURCELESS CLAIM. Another thing, no I don't know any Iranian Jews. Few REALLY do. But i did just ask a jew friend of mine IF A JEW COULD BE HAPPY IN IRAN. He laughed. And btw, the post bedore my last one is my SOURCE FOR UNHAPPY JEWS!!!!jonsimon wrote:
You know jews living in Iran personally? I find that difficult to believe. Also, neither did I bring up the debate. For the record, you were the first person to debate the happiness of jews in Iran.nlsme wrote:
Why don't you produce a source of happy jews? I didn't bring this up for debate. BTW I know some jews. There is my source. Their mind. Their beleifs. THEIR WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Home is where the heart is. I can see how jews can be HAPPY AT TIMES. But , ignorance is blocking some from seeing that is not truly HAPPY.Bertster7 wrote:
Obviously Jews living in Iran face prejudice, discrimination and hardship.nlsme wrote:
Debate 101 (when trying to discredit someones arguement with a source, MAKE SURE IT CONFLICTS WITH THEIR ARGUMENT!!!!!!)nlsme wrote:
I am not buying that, but it does bring a good point. It says the director highlights the VAST DISCRIMINATION OF JEWS IN IRAN. How could that HONESTLY be something to be HAPPY about?
What the documentary explores is their relationship with the country they live in and love. The Jews remaining in Iran are very nationalistic. They would rather live in Iran and face discrimination than live anywhere else.
Again much of this stems from the isolationist nature of Jewish communities who typically segregate themselves from the societies in which they live, of course this is secondary to the official discrimination they face outside their tight knit communities - where they live, isolated from the rest of Iranian society. This does little to help soften the views of the Iranian people towards them, but does allow them to live their lives in the way they choose. They are living their lives in the manner of their choosing.
Therefore they are happier living in Iran than they would be living elsewhere. Therefore they are as happy as can reasonably be expected.
I find it amusing that you immediately jump to the conclusion I'm trying to discredit your argument, because obviously under a non-Islamic (or at least less hardcore) regime in Iran, the Persian Jews would live happier lives. I was implying that your argument is built on supposition, which is no way to make a case, and that you should try looking into the facts of the situation - since your points of argument thus far have been virtually non-existent.
BTW this is extremly off-topic.
Last edited by nlsme (2007-07-25 11:45:04)
I realize that Israel hit Egypt first. However, if you read about it (or watch documentaries on it), Israeli jets flew over Egyptian armored columns that were on their way to attack Israel...so the argument is kind of moot. Israel using surprise to achieve air superiority over an adversary who was going to attack them regardless.Bertster7 wrote:
Just thought I should point out that Israel was the one doing the attacking in the 6 day war. They started the war with a pre-emptive strike against the Egyptian airforce.
Another point is that everyone seems obsessed with Arabs wanting to destroy Israel. It's a 2 way thing. Destroying Palestine is also a desire of the many of the Jewish people.Each side is as extremist as the other.Menachem Begin, ex-Israeli Prime Minister wrote:
The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. The Land of Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever
As for destroying Palestine...probably wasn't an issue until Palestinians started lobbing rockets and blowing themselves (and innocent civilians) up. I'm not saying the Palestinians are being treated fairly in any way. These are two groups (Jews and Palestinians) who have been mistreated throughout history. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone has started a systematic genocide against the Palestinians at any point in history.
As to the Mexico/America comparison from earlier: That is a ridiculous comparison. It's more like if say...Oklahoma (Israel) were attacked by Kansas (Syria), Arkansas (Jordan), and Texas (Egypt). And in the course of fighting back, Oklahoma drove those states back beyond their original borders...maybe owning the Ozarks in Arkansas (West Bank), Coffeeville KS (Golan Heights), and Dallas (Sinai) by the time the other states sued for peace. How is it appropriate that those territories, taken from the aggressors by the winner, must be given back? Would they have given Israel back if they had won? I think not.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Most of that Aid goes to ISrael and they have enough money and USA supports them. Yeah they need weapons to stay in Palestina because without that they would get back their land. Stop US Aid to them i relly think there are countries who need more help then Israel.
We could need the aid as our goverment is fucking up everything since 2002 and they cheated at the votings etc.
We could need the aid as our goverment is fucking up everything since 2002 and they cheated at the votings etc.