Comrade Ogilvy
Member
+7|6571
Freed Guantanamo inmates take up arms



July 28, 2007




AT LEAST 30 former Guantanamo Bay detainees have been killed or recaptured after taking up arms against allied forces following their release.

They have been discovered mostly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but not in Iraq, a US Defence Department spokesman told The Age yesterday.

Commander Jeffrey Gordon said the detainees had, while in custody, falsely claimed to be farmers, truck drivers, cooks, small-arms merchants, low-level combatants or had offered other false explanations for being in Afghanistan.

"We are aware of dozens of cases where they have returned to militant activities, participated in anti-US propaganda or engaged in other activities," said Commander Gordon.

His comments follow the death this week of Taliban commander and former detainee Abdullah Mehsud, who reportedly blew himself up rather than surrender to Pakistani forces. In December 2001, Mehsud was captured in Afghanistan and held at Guantanamo Bay until his release in March 2004. He later became the Taliban chief for South Waziristan.

Commander Gordon said the US did not make it a practice to track detainees after their release, but it had become aware through intelligence gathering and media reports of many cases of released detainees returning to combat.

"These former detainees successfully lied to US officials, sometimes for over three years," he said. "Common cover stories include going to Afghanistan to buy medicines, to teach the Koran or to find a wife. Many of these stories appear so often, and are subsequently proven false, that we can only conclude that they are part of their terrorist training."

An analysis of 516 Guantanamo detainees found that while there was no evidence linking six of them to terrorist activities, 95 per cent were a potential threat to US interests. This was based on their affiliations with groups such as al-Qaeda, their enthusiasm for violent jihad, their having undertaken small-arms training or having been willing to perform a support role for terrorism.

But only one in three could be definitely identified as a fighter for the Taliban, al-Qaeda or associated groups, according to the analysis by the Combating Terrorism Centre based at the West Point Military Academy.

Most were considered a greater than potential risk due to support they had shown the Islamist cause by fighting for Islamist forces or by undertaking advanced military training, including bomb-making.

The review does not include the so-called "Australian Taliban", David Hicks, who has pleaded guilty to terrorist offences. It was undertaken after an analysis by Seton Hall University, a private university in New Jersey, of the detainee system found only 8 per cent of detainees were al-Qaeda fighters.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/fre … 58055.html

Last edited by Comrade Ogilvy (2007-07-30 17:32:07)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7003
Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|7002

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.

Last edited by rawls2 (2007-07-31 11:48:28)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6732|Éire

rawls2 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.
You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6664|Escea

Thing is though they took up arms now, what's to say they wouldn't have before they were imprisoned, better safe than sorry.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|7002

Braddock wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.
You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7158

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

rawls2 wrote:


It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.
You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
So you generally don't give a shit about other people? That's nice to know.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6732|Éire

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

rawls2 wrote:


It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.
You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
Sure why didn't we just let the Nazis do what they had to do? There would be no Israel and hence no Middle Eastern situation now if we had*

*not my own view, just an example of the way the American extremist mindset is potentially heading.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7106|NT, like Mick Dundee

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

rawls2 wrote:


It's more likely they were always guilty but we just couldn't prove it. Now it seems we were right about them in the first place. It was political pressurethat led to their release, not there innocence or lack of.
You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
You've been meddling there for sixty years. Always was and always will be a great place to go on holiday if you decide to visit. Just ask Poe about his times in the ME.

rawls, you have to concede Bubbalo's point, if somebody locked you up for five years without charges and you were offered a way to get revenge against them, wouldn't you take it? I know I would.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7085
you could also make the argument that being detained at gitmo isnt bad enough to avoid recapture.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6732|Éire

Flecco wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock wrote:


You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
You've been meddling there for sixty years. Always was and always will be a great place to go on holiday if you decide to visit. Just ask Poe about his times in the ME.

rawls, you have to concede Bubbalo's point, if somebody locked you up for five years without charges and you were offered a way to get revenge against them, wouldn't you take it? I know I would.
Me too ...I'll probably get a couple of CIA guys turning up at my door for typing this!
Comrade Ogilvy
Member
+7|6571

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
Most criminals believe they were jailed unjustly...so when they are released and commit another crime according to you they are just getting revenge?
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7162|California

We should have taken them out into the mountains and gone shooting range on them in the first place.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6961|Πάϊ

rawls2 wrote:

Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
Omfg he's fucking serious!

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

you could also make the argument that being detained at gitmo isnt bad enough to avoid recapture.
You could also argue that being detained at Gitmo was so bad, those freed are willing to risk the remainder of their lives fighting for revenge.

Last edited by oug (2007-07-31 14:50:59)

ƒ³
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6732|Éire

Comrade Ogilvy wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
Most criminals believe they were jailed unjustly...so when they are released and commit another crime according to you they are just getting revenge?
We're talking about the people who WERE unjustly held, not people who subjectively believe themselves to have been treated unfairly where objectivity would suggest otherwise.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|7002

Flecco wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock wrote:


You're right, you should just go ahead and lock everyone up as they're probably all guilty or will become guilty if we allow them to continue in society unfettered.
Why can't you guys just let us do what we have to do? Gurantee no one on these forums, none of you country men will be affected by our actions. If anything, we'll make the Middle East a nice vacation getaway in just a few more years of American policy.
You've been meddling there for sixty years. Always was and always will be a great place to go on holiday if you decide to visit. Just ask Poe about his times in the ME.

rawls, you have to concede Bubbalo's point, if somebody locked you up for five years without charges and you were offered a way to get revenge against them, wouldn't you take it? I know I would.
Cyborg- I love people.
Flecco- I would be mad as hell and try to get revenge. But that is assuming they were innocent. I don't think you or I have enough knowledge of what they really did to judge. The soldiers on the ground rounding up these people know better then you or I.
Braddock- What we've been doing for the past sixty years is not new. If it wasn't us it was the USSR or China or France or England. I still believe our intentions are good.
oug- yes I am.
san4
The Mas
+311|7130|NYC, a place to live

Comrade Ogilvy wrote:

Freed Guantanamo inmates take up arms

July 28, 2007...
An analysis of 516 Guantanamo detainees found that while there was no evidence linking six of them to terrorist activities, 95 per cent were a potential threat to US interests. This was based on their affiliations with groups such as al-Qaeda, their enthusiasm for violent jihad, their having undertaken small-arms training or having been willing to perform a support role for terrorism.
Small arms training means you are an enemy of the United States? We'd better start expanding Guantanamo now. A whole bunch of people on this forum are going to be sent there. Not to mention every member of every foreign army.

And what the hell does "enthusiasm for violent jihad" mean? And why does showing "enthusiasm" mean someone should be imprisoned?

Willingness to take on a support role for terrorism is not the same thing as actually performing a support role. Having an "affiliation" with al Qaeda isn't the same thing as planning, supporting or carrying out terrorist acts.

This is all bullshit. If this is all they can say about former Guantanamo detainees, it shows how stupid Guantanamo is. None of the 95% actually carried out terrorist acts after being released? None of them actually provided support for terrorist acts? So we imprisoned people who weren't terrorists after all.

These vague allegations are a perfect example of what is wrong with holding people without access to the U.S. court system.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6932|Northern California
How much you wanna bet that before they were released they were implanted with RFIDs and then 'recaptured' regardless of being found near any combat.  They were probably back at home hugging their wife and kids and trying to forgive the rendition they just suffered unjustly when some yahoos came in and "recaptured" them so they could write some more propaganda?

lol, but seriously, if i were the mildest of farmers in Iraq and kidnapped, renditioned, and kept without basic human rights for more than a month, hell yes I'd be jihadi numero uno!  but of course, only "evil-doers" were captured in the first place, so we don't have to worry.....
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7203

Well FFS we couldn't even convict OJ, so why are you people surprised at all?
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6961|Πάϊ

rawls2 wrote:

Cyborg- I love people.
Flecco- I would be mad as hell and try to get revenge. But that is assuming they were innocent. I don't think you or I have enough knowledge of what they really did to judge. The soldiers on the ground rounding up these people know better then you or I.
Braddock- What we've been doing for the past sixty years is not new. If it wasn't us it was the USSR or China or France or England. I still believe our intentions are good.
oug- yes I am.
But, you just did JUDGE them didn't you? Although you admitted that you too would try and get revenge, for some reason if they do it they're guilty according to your logic!

And for some reason, you do not love people. Just now you made it quite clear that you don't care what happens to the inhabitants of the ME. In fact, I'm pretty sure you only love your countrymen. And you assume that we're all like you. So according to you, if Greek people don't die, I shouldn't give a fuck what the US is doing to some poor bastards in the ME because they're not my countrymen!

And finally, I too believe that if it wasn't the US, it would certainly be someone else. But that doesn't change anything in terms of what's right and wrong.
ƒ³
Comrade Ogilvy
Member
+7|6571

Braddock wrote:

Comrade Ogilvy wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
Most criminals believe they were jailed unjustly...so when they are released and commit another crime according to you they are just getting revenge?
We're talking about the people who WERE unjustly held, not people who subjectively believe themselves to have been treated unfairly where objectivity would suggest otherwise.
How do you know that they were "unjustly held"...besides I believe they were captured in a combat zone perhaps with weapons...it`s not like they were caught smoking dope behind the camel tent.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6664|Escea

Comrade Ogilvy wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Comrade Ogilvy wrote:

Most criminals believe they were jailed unjustly...so when they are released and commit another crime according to you they are just getting revenge?
We're talking about the people who WERE unjustly held, not people who subjectively believe themselves to have been treated unfairly where objectivity would suggest otherwise.
How do you know that they were "unjustly held"...besides I believe they were captured in a combat zone perhaps with weapons...it`s not like they were caught smoking dope behind the camel tent.
lol
I just had a hilarious image of a stoned Arab riding a camel

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2007-07-31 15:16:45)

Comrade Ogilvy
Member
+7|6571
From the article.....


"Commander Jeffrey Gordon said the detainees had, while in custody, falsely claimed to be farmers, truck drivers, cooks, small-arms merchants, low-level combatants or had offered other false explanations for being in Afghanistan.

"We are aware of dozens of cases where they have returned to militant activities, participated in anti-US propaganda or engaged in other activities," said Commander Gordon."
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6732|Éire

rawls2 wrote:

Braddock- What we've been doing for the past sixty years is not new. If it wasn't us it was the USSR or China or France or England. I still believe our intentions are good.
NEWSFLASH ...the Nazis truly believed they were right too.

America has always been a fairly iniquitous nation but recently they've seemingly decided they don't really care what anyone thinks anymore because quite frankly they don't have to anymore. This new 'arms for peace' bullshit deal for the Middle East announced in the last few days proves the despicable, double standard nature of US foreign policy. It's not because they're inherently evil, they're just looking out for themselves and don't care about anyone else.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6847|North Carolina

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, after being held unjustly for 5 or more years they wanted revenge.  Who would've thought it?
While it doesn't justify it, I can certainly agree that I'd be a lot more likely to join an extremist group against a government  if I was wrongly tortured and imprisoned by the said government.

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