GATOR591957
Member
+84|7068
Army's 'Debt Of Service' Leaves Vets Perplexed...

Unbelievably, Soldiers Must Pay For Damaged Equipment....

Kirstin Cole
Reporting

(CBS) NEW YORK Servicemen and women who made huge sacrifices fighting in the war and now paying yet another price, even after coming home.

One soldier in particular is currently battling against a new "debt of service."

Brian Rodriguez is a fighter, an honorably discharged soldier who'd been deployed in Iraq.

"I was a combat engineer," Rodriguez said. "We deal with land mines, explosives."

He fought for his nation, only to return to his homeland and wage a fresh battle.

Former Army Specialist Rodriguez started getting bills for $700 for lost or damaged government property this summer. Although he was discharged some four years ago, bills recently arrived demanding payment, but giving no details on what or why -- nor do they offer a way to dispute the charges.

"For doing my job you're going to bill me?" Rodriguez said.

And he's not alone. A 2006 government report found more than 1,000 soldiers being billed a total of $1.5 million. And while fighting overseas put their lives on the line, this battle on paper could cost them their future by ruining their credit. Rodriguez will be reported to credit agencies next month.

"It makes a terrible point about the nature of military service today," citizen soldier Tod Ensign said.

Ensign is a veteran's advocate. He says this is all part of the military’s push to be run more like a business.

"They'll just pound him and call him, call his employers, and make his life as miserable as they can until he pays up," Ensign said.

Testimony before Congress detailed in a report found that "although unit commanders and finance offices are authorized to write off debts for lost and damaged equipment ... they have not always done so."

"It happens too often and it's just disgraceful," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "Here are people who are risking their lives for us and they come home and they're being treated as if they're criminals instead of heroes."

Because it's been four years since he left the Middle East, Rodriguez's battalion was dissolved and his commanders are long gone. And despite repeated requests, the Army never could tell us what piece of equipment Rodriguez was billed for, nor would they get rid of the debt.

"I did my time, I served my country and this is the thanks I get," Rodriguez said.

Their suggestion? Call your Congressman. Schumer said he'll reach out to the Army to intervene on Brian's behalf.



So I email my friend who is currently serving in Iraq, here is his response:

Sad and yet so very true. Hell I'm not even out yet and I already had to pay about $250 from my last deployment. Bad enough they make us pay for them, but then they don't even get rid of the busted equipment. They jerry-rig most of it and give it to the next soldier that comes in for issue. Then it breaks while he has it and he has to pay for it too, and so on. There was a time when we had something called 'field-loss', equipment destroyed during military operations. Now that doesn't even exist anymore due to the military's budget dillemas.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7177|Salt Lake City

It's not uncommon to be charged for missing or damaged items, but what is bullshit is that it took them years to get around to billing the guy, and they can't even tell the guy for what he is being billed.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

I had to pay for shit I lost or damaged back in '99.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7177|Salt Lake City

usmarine2005 wrote:

I had to pay for shit I lost or damaged back in '99.
Yeah, but wouldn't you be just a little bit pissed if you got a bill from the military in 2004 saying you owed them money for lost/damaged equipment, but they couldn't tell you what that was?
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6829|New York
That's fucking disgusting. None of you guys who do this should have to pay for this shit. It should be enough that you're risking your neck.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

I had to pay for shit I lost or damaged back in '99.
Yeah, but wouldn't you be just a little bit pissed if you got a bill from the military in 2004 saying you owed them money for lost/damaged equipment, but they couldn't tell you what that was?
I wouldn't pay it till they gave me an itemized bill.  But then again, I would have to weigh the cost of a lawyer versus the cost of the bill.
Protecus
Prophet of Certain Certainties
+28|6962
So if you're in an intense fire fight and something gets broken, you are expected to pay for it?

Recockulous

The men supply the bodies, the army supplies the....supplies. That's how it should work.

Again, re-fucking-diculous.

Edit: of course, if you're playing hacky sack with your scope, thats another issue

Last edited by Protecus (2007-08-02 11:44:28)

usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

Protecus wrote:

Edit: of course, if you're playing hacky sack with your scope, thats another issue
Ya...people are missing the point here.  You only get billed if it was found it was damaged or lost due to negligence.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7177|Salt Lake City

Protecus wrote:

So if you're in an intense fire fight and something gets broken, you are expected to pay for it?

Recockulous

The men supply the bodies, the army supplies the....supplies. That's how it should work.

Again, re-fucking-diculous.

Edit: of course, if you're playing hacky sack with your scope, thats another issue
I could be wrong, but I don't think they require you to pay for equipment damaged in combat, unless it was due to negligence.
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6971|The lunar module
Misplacing a Finnish army bike = EUR 270 fine.

Misplacing an armed forces UAZ jeep = EUR 120 (includes a full tank of gas).
Protecus
Prophet of Certain Certainties
+28|6962

usmarine2005 wrote:

Protecus wrote:

Edit: of course, if you're playing hacky sack with your scope, thats another issue
Ya...people are missing the point here.  You only get billed if it was found it was damaged or lost due to negligence.
Aaaaahhhh, alright.

In that case, ok

But yea, they should tell you much sooner and with a list of charges.

Any respectable business sends an invoice with the bill
BeerzGod
Hooray Beer!
+94|7011|United States
Wow, this kind of makes me sick to my stomach. I would understand some instances where certain pieces of pricey equipment suddenly went missing and couldn't be found. But to charge a soldier for something that was broken or damaged during a firefight or infield operation is just facking pathetic of the government to do. And the fact that they jerry-rig shit back up and give it to the next soldier is just madness... what if this certain piece of jerry-rigged equipment failed due to an incorrect jerry-rigging (Fun word to use) and cost a soldier his/her life? I'm quite curious to see what might happen if/when that situation happens or has happened.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

Yet another story where we only see one side.  There are three sides to a story, the third side being the truth.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

GATOR591957 wrote:

Now that doesn't even exist anymore due to the military's budget dillemas.
BS
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6983|Texas - Bigger than France
What if you "damage" your underwear when you're under fire?

Sorry had to
jonsimon
Member
+224|6936
More evidence of the US supporting its troops.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

jonsimon wrote:

More evidence of the US supporting its troops.
Oh Christ.  You wanna see jerry rigged equipment, go back to the mid 90's.  The equipment now is pretty damn good.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6835|The Gem Saloon

usmarine2005 wrote:

I had to pay for shit I lost or damaged back in '99.
you remember what the stuff was?
just interested..
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

Parker wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

I had to pay for shit I lost or damaged back in '99.
you remember what the stuff was?
just interested..
Canteen cup, poncho liner, e-tool, and poncho that I lost.

I ripped a shelter half because I tried to use it as a hammock.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7112|UK
I don't get it.

You're in a battle right? You shit gets damaged.

You gonna charge me for it?! I wasn't being shot at with peas you dumb fucks.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

m3thod wrote:

I don't get it.

You're in a battle right? You shit gets damaged.

You gonna charge me for it?! I wasn't being shot at with peas you dumb fucks.
No that is not it dude.  Please read what I have been saying.
Villain{NY}
Banned
+44|6785|New York
Absolute bullshit but I'm not surprised.  I suggest the vets send letters to the U.S. Army requesting money for some of their ridiculous losses as well.  For example, they can say "Well I was trying to grow a beard but since I have to be clean shaven to wear my gas mask properly I'm requesting $100 per facial hair that I had to shave to wear such equipment."  Or, "I like having toe nails that are obscenely long but since I can't properly wear my boots with such toe nails I had to cut them off, therefore I'm requesting $50 per toe nail I had to cut off and abandon in the desert."  Yes the preceding was my poor attempt at a joke but what our government does to our loyal servicemen is no joke.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6927|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

usmarine2005 wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

More evidence of the US supporting its troops.
Oh Christ.  You wanna see jerry rigged equipment, go back to the mid 90's.  The equipment now is pretty damn good.
when I got to my first unit in 98, I had to buy my own gear, the shit they gave me was fubar. I saw a story like this a few months back, a Army Lt. got hit and they had to cut his flak jacket off and his duece gear. When he was in the  hospital he got a bill for like $2k for destroyed gov equipment.

When I went to Iraq, I left most of my issued gear here in the states and took personal stuff so I wouldnt have to deal with CIF.
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|7071|Washington, DC

m3thod wrote:

I don't get it.

You're in a battle right? You shit gets damaged.

You gonna charge me for it?! I wasn't being shot at with peas you dumb fucks.
I believe USMarine stated that it's for equipment damaged due to negligence, IE playing hot potato with your M16.

Still dickish to charge them regardless, what with their huge research budgets you'd think they'd afford a few rifles.

edit: Somewhat off-topic, but I heard somewhere that you guys can't take your camo and other such gear with you once you leave the active duty. Is this true?

Last edited by Hurricane (2007-08-02 12:12:28)

usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7202

SgtHeihn wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

More evidence of the US supporting its troops.
Oh Christ.  You wanna see jerry rigged equipment, go back to the mid 90's.  The equipment now is pretty damn good.
when I got to my first unit in 98, I had to buy my own gear, the shit they gave me was fubar.
Same here in '95.  I would buy things every pay check until I had a full set.  That was my inspection gear and back-up gear.

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-08-02 12:15:26)

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