KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7073|949

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/30/mideast.USarms/

Rice said the United States will also move to conclude a 10-year, $30 billion military assistance agreement with Israel.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/ … newssearch

The United States is developing a proposed $20 billion, 10-year arms sales package for Saudi Arabia, a senior administration official confirmed on Saturday.
"This is all about Iran," said the official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity because discussions with the Saudis are still going on and the arms sale deal has not been completed.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld … ?track=rss

The Bush administration will announce next week a series of arms deals worth at least $20 billion to Saudi Arabia and five other oil-rich Persian Gulf states, as well as new 10-year military aid packages to Israel and Egypt, a move to shore up allies in the Middle East and counter Iran's rising influence, U.S. officials said Friday.
I fail to see how providing more weapons for the region will increase the stability.  The US is clearly asserting its dominance of the region, expressly to the Iranian regime (in my opinion).  US officials recently met with Iranian officials in Iraq, then a few days later publicly announce not only arms deals for Israel, but also for largely Sunni Saudi Arabia (Iran is Shia/Shiite).

I don't want my money going to weapons for anyone, except perhaps our Armed Forces on a reduced level.

Of course, all these allocations rely on Congressional support, but rarely does this kind of thing get shot down.  After all, the politicians are the ones that will probably benefit the most (well, and the M-I complex ) from these deals.

Does anyone see this as a step forward in Middle East stability?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7062|London, England
I don't understand why they hate Iran so much. The terrorists mostly come from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sure, there's alot of Anti-America sentiment in the country, but they're still more Democratical and "Westernised" than Pak/Afgh or Saud.

Iran could've been a more powerful ally than Saud/Pak against the war on Terror (AQ) if they were Allies. They don't seem to like AQ either. The US should've used the Shia/Sunni split to its advantage and sided with the Shias against the Sunni AQ groups, that's what I think. AQ is the biggest threat to the world, not Iran.

And Israel, well, you can't stop that. That's something the American tax payer will want to think about. That's Aid, not an Arms deal. They're not getting anything back by the looks of it, it's pure Aid.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-07-30 13:47:41)

Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7106|NT, like Mick Dundee

No government is interested in stability in the Middle East.

Oh and Mek, the issue is that Iran's government is completely independent of the USA and doesn't do what it's told. So it becomes a threat to US dominance.

It's Iran's right under the NPT to develop nuclear tech, the USA even trained some of it's scientists back in the late 60s early 70s. The problem is, now that Iran isn't a puppet government the USA doesn't like it. So it needs an excuse to sanction it; sanctions bring about civil unrest which weakens the nation's economy and government, then the USA invades the weakened nation. New regime is installed; life goes on.

Some would argue that Iran has the right to nuclear weapons, as none of the 8 nations that bears nuclear arms has disarmed in accordance with the NPT. If the USA wont follow treaties it signs, why should anybody else?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6996
This is great fun. It's like sticking a tomato in a microwave. In a metaphorical 90 seconds that thing is gonna create a nice big messy red explosion.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7125|United States of America

CameronPoe wrote:

This is great fun. It's like sticking a tomato in a microwave. In a metaphorical 90 seconds that thing is gonna create a nice big messy red explosion.
You don't say... be back in a minute and a half



Nah, I'm not wasting any of my tomatoes.

I don't see why we should keep supplying the Middle East while very little progress is being made towards peace, and at the same time we're selling them weapons . That whole region has needed a time-out for some time now.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7073|949

DesertFox- wrote:

I don't see why we should keep supplying the Middle East while very little progress is being made towards peace, and at the same time we're selling them weapons . That whole region has needed a time-out for some time now.
I agree.

Perhaps we should supply them with the correct tools to implement peace, instead of providing tools to blow it to pieces.

Rhetorical question time:  How hard would it be for the Bush Administration (plus our "allies in the East"- Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt) to create a movement for peace through diplomacy?  Can they (all parties) even fathom the idea of talking instead of posturing/fighting?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-07-30 14:08:57)

oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6960|Πάϊ
Quite simply, the whole stabilization bull crap is meant to legitimise the arms deal. Otherwise, it's business as usual for the US: create tension in the area by stirring things with Iran and then the market is wide open for billion dollar sales with its neighbors. And when the tomato explodes, well who gives a flying fuck, it will be just another opportunity to sell.
ƒ³
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7198|Argentina
Nice, selling weapons to the same people that crashed the planes in the twin towers.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6814|Kyiv, Ukraine
Keynesian Militarism, its everywhere you want to be...as was saying yesterday in a thread somewheres, we cannot have prolonged peace, our economy depends on it now more than ever.  Sorry world.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6731|Éire
Talk about using petrol to put out a fire!

Honestly, more arms is supposed to equal increased peace and stability? Flecco hit the nail on the head imo, Iran is an Islamic Republic, the Cuba of the Middle East if you like - a country that has stood up and created and followed its own agenda. This agenda may or may not be of any harm to anyone else, but the main fact is it is independent of US influence and that is why the US can't tolerate them. The US does not want a 'wildcard' nation in the most oil-rich area of the world; the US likes to play a safe game with a loaded deck and Iran does not fit in with that.

The US has no ideological or theological aversion to Islam, it just doesn't like states that aren't playing for the same team and the Islam factor is a handy cover for this ...think about it, Saudi Arabia is more extremist in its interpretation of Islam than Iran and yet they are best buddies.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7069|IRELAND

So weapons promote peace and stability? Don't make me laugh. It promotes healthy profits for Bush Co's cronies and keeps California bigger than France economically.

Think they are arming everyone.........then let them kill each other.............then moving in for the spoils. Win Win situation.

Such a contradiction of all the drivel spewed by the propaganda machine............................and the Republican Die harders will argue that flushing an area of the planet which is all ready at each other throats with more means to kill each other is a good thing.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6814|Kyiv, Ukraine

JahManRed wrote:

So weapons promote peace and stability? Don't make me laugh. It promotes healthy profits for Bush Co's cronies and keeps California bigger than France economically.

Think they are arming everyone.........then let them kill each other.............then moving in for the spoils. Win Win situation.

Such a contradiction of all the drivel spewed by the propaganda machine............................and the Republican Die harders will argue that flushing an area of the planet which is all ready at each other throats with more means to kill each other is a good thing.
You should have seen the brief story inserted by the right-winger think tanks right before the arms sale and then pulled when it was debunked.  Something like "Iran secures purchase of 250 Mig-30 bombers, Iran gains long-range nuclear strike capability".  The National Review is still on this story, even though it is both patently false and strategically absurd.  At least FoxNews had the brains to pull it, thought I'm sure it'll come up on this weekend's talk shows.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7073|949

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

Keynesian Militarism, its everywhere you want to be...as was saying yesterday in a thread somewheres, we cannot have prolonged peace, our economy depends on it now more than ever.  Sorry world.
The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault.
Major Ralph Peters, US Military

So does anyone actually think this will help stabilize the region?  Write your local politician, tell them what you think.  If you want, I will post the letter I sent to a few here in Cali and you can edit to your liking.  It may not do anything, but at least it lets them know people are watching, and caring.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-07-31 10:27:18)

topal63
. . .
+533|7159

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

Keynesian Militarism, its everywhere you want to be...as was saying yesterday in a thread somewheres, we cannot have prolonged peace, our economy depends on it now more than ever.  Sorry world.
The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault.
Major Ralph Peters, US Military

So does anyone actually think this will help stabilize the region?  Write your local politician, tell them what you think.  If you want, I will post the letter I sent to a few here in Cali and you can edit to your liking.  It may not do anything, but at least it lets them know people are watching, and caring.
Keynesian Militarism:
Is a false economic paradigm - it is both a misreading of history and misrepresentation of the facts. There is no link between economic growth and militarism. Militarism does not cause economic growth - it has the opposite effect. It is a resource drain and a debt creator. A military is the direct result of taxation. It is a monetary burden accepted by a Nation. It can only exist as the result of private production/industry which exists as the supporting economic sector/factor.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-07-31 17:18:01)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6846|North Carolina
Is anyone else reminded of the movie "Lord of War" after reading the OP?

Man, they're not even being subtle about war profiteering these days....
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,992|7073|949

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4440

Some more analysis -

Bush's plan to increase arms to the region is an admission of failure on several fronts. The first, and most obvious, is the failure of the invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein to have any positive effect in the region. No one denies that Saddam was a brutal ruler (he certainly was one when he enjoyed U.S. support) but it's clear now that a military invasion and occupation was not the appropriate way to deal with the potential (at worst) threat that he represented. During Iran's massively destructive eight year war with Iraq, Iran's ruling mullahs could not in their wildest dreams have imagined a victory over Iraq as complete as that which was provided them by the U.S. in 2003, paid in the treasure of U.S. taxpayers, and the blood and limbs of U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians. It was always a fantasy that a democratic, Shia-dominated, Iraq would tilt toward the Sunni Arab world and Israel, rather than Shia Iran. Yet this was the imagined outcome for the neoconservative planners of Bush's Iraq policy. Reality has proved otherwise.
The militarization of the region through the proposed sales represents, to some extent, a repudiation of the principle of nuclear deterrence, specifically in regard to Israel. Though it has never officially admitted having nuclear weapons, it is understood that Israel does, in fact, have nuclear capability. This policy of "strategic ambiguity" is justified by Israel on the grounds that it is surrounded by enemies, such as Iran, who want to destroy Israel. It's unclear how providing $30 billion of sophisticated new weaponry would enhance Israel's security in a way that a nuclear arsenal could not. As Zbigniew Brzezinski asked at a security conference this June, "If the Israeli nuclear arsenal — some 200 weapons capable of destroying Iran if Iran were to attack Israel — is not a sufficient and credible deterrent, than what is it for?"

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-08-07 13:25:55)

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