One combination of lethal injection drugs can't cost very much at all compared to the food, medical care, and pay to prison staff necessary to house an inmate.Spark wrote:
You do realise that if often actually costs MORE to execute than to incarcerate someone (for life)?Dragonclaw wrote:
.:ronin:.|Patton wrote:
why should we pay for the care of murders, rapists, and child molesters in jail? Get rid of them all.
Facts ftw.
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i dont understand why it costs money to give the death sentance
also
about 3-4 years ago i saw a movie and this guy did something really bad and instead of going to jail he had to pay $1 every friday to the victim or something so he would remember what he did.....or something along the lines of that, he eventually went crazy or something im not quite sure
but it was a really sad movie
also
about 3-4 years ago i saw a movie and this guy did something really bad and instead of going to jail he had to pay $1 every friday to the victim or something so he would remember what he did.....or something along the lines of that, he eventually went crazy or something im not quite sure
but it was a really sad movie
something to do with a backup if the lethal injection doesnt work... or somethingJibbles wrote:
Here, they're debating the death penalty because they don't know if the convicted felon feels pain when he is put to death via lethal injection. Since he has been sentenced to the death penalty already, and probably committed some horrendous crime, I'm no longer concerned with his well being or comfort. What difference does it make if he "feels" OK when he dies? He's fuckin' dead! He no longer has the ability to care or protest, and if people are so concerned and not sure if they feel pain, well then by all means give it a try! The last thing we need to pay for is to try and "rehabilitate" some disgusting form of human life. He fucked up big time. Too fucking bad. It only encourages capital crimes to be committed, since these horrible criminals are treated as the victims, as soon as an attorney mentions "troubled childhood", sufficient punishment goes right out the door. I love our legal system...
BTW, Utah is the only state that has a firing squad as an option of death. There's a specific reason as to why. Karma for first person to correctly answer..
Last edited by Nappy (2007-11-27 09:25:16)
The lethal injection, just as the electric chair weren't invented for the criminals pleasure.Jibbles wrote:
Here, they're debating the death penalty because they don't know if the convicted felon feels pain when he is put to death via lethal injection. Since he has been sentenced to the death penalty already, and probably committed some horrendous crime, I'm no longer concerned with his well being or comfort. What difference does it make if he "feels" OK when he dies? He's fuckin' dead! He no longer has the ability to care or protest, and if people are so concerned and not sure if they feel pain, well then by all means give it a try! The last thing we need to pay for is to try and "rehabilitate" some disgusting form of human life. He fucked up big time. Too fucking bad. It only encourages capital crimes to be committed, since these horrible criminals are treated as the victims, as soon as an attorney mentions "troubled childhood", sufficient punishment goes right out the door. I love our legal system...
BTW, Utah is the only state that has a firing squad as an option of death. There's a specific reason as to why. Karma for first person to correctly answer..
It's just more convinient for the prison. Less cleaning up.
Most things have already been said on here.krazed wrote:
examples? im interestedSpearhead wrote:
Yes, true.Cleft wrote:
Someone did a presentation about this in speech class last year. If i recall it is more expensive to execute somebody than to jail them for life on average.
My dad represents death penalty inmates in Florida. You would not believe the amount of shit that people don't know about the issue that would make them staunchly against the death penalty.
1. Its more expensive to execute inmates than to let them rot in prison. People like my dad make 80k a year working for the state (representing death row inmates). If there was no death penalty in Florida, that money could be used elsewhere.
2. A surprisingly large percent of death row inmates across the country (and prisoners serving life sentences) were convicted 20-30 years ago based on scientific testing that is currently deemed inaccurate and invalid. There was a special on one test the FBI used to help prosecute people based on bullet ID. Its help convict many people (cant remember how many), and now they're saying its basically pseudo-science. Another thing thats brand new is DNA testing, which didn't exist a couple decades ago. The system is flawed.
3. The death penalty does not help lower murder rates. Humans that are about to murder other humans in the heat of passion do not stop and think "If I get caught, I'll have to rot in a 9 by 12 cell for 20 years and get executed".
4. If you have any idea under what conditions maximum security inmates live under, I think you'd rather be executed than to live the rest of your pathetic life in a smelly, swelling hot cell.
Theres more, too. But I've made my point. Almost every argument supporting the death penalty can be countered using facts and evidence. To be honest, people who support the death penalty just want to have revenge on already totally screwed people. I think its cruel. The government should not have the authority to take any life of already convicted and suffering people.
Many inmates on death row had flawed/stacked cases, invalid evidence used against them, and may not even be the actual killer at all. So the state has to hire lawyers to help represent them in court. And judges. And investigators. And scientists.Stingray24 wrote:
One combination of lethal injection drugs can't cost very much at all compared to the food, medical care, and pay to prison staff necessary to house an inmate.Spark wrote:
You do realise that if often actually costs MORE to execute than to incarcerate someone (for life)?Dragonclaw wrote:
Facts ftw.
Unless you want to kill all of them, with no questions asked. Just know you'll be executing many innocent people in the process.
Last edited by Spearhead (2007-11-27 11:09:02)
in soviet russia, death penalty is getting born!
inane little opines
Then by your arguments, current test methodologies could be used to: 1) exonerate improperly imprisoned people, thus reducing the cost to the state; 2) reaffirm an inmate's conviction, making more appeals unnecessary and execution more swift, thus reducing the cost to the state; and 3) ensure that new capital convictions are backed by more rigorous evidence, lowering the number of appeals needed, thus reducing the cost to the state.Spearhead wrote:
Most things have already been said on here.krazed wrote:
examples? im interestedSpearhead wrote:
Yes, true.
My dad represents death penalty inmates in Florida. You would not believe the amount of shit that people don't know about the issue that would make them staunchly against the death penalty.
1. Its more expensive to execute inmates than to let them rot in prison. People like my dad make 80k a year working for the state (representing death row inmates). If there was no death penalty in Florida, that money could be used elsewhere.
2. A surprisingly large percent of death row inmates across the country (and prisoners serving life sentences) were convicted 20-30 years ago based on scientific testing that is currently deemed inaccurate and invalid. There was a special on one test the FBI used to help prosecute people based on bullet ID. Its help convict many people (cant remember how many), and now they're saying its basically pseudo-science. Another thing thats brand new is DNA testing, which didn't exist a couple decades ago. The system is flawed.
3. The death penalty does not help lower murder rates. Humans that are about to murder other humans in the heat of passion do not stop and think "If I get caught, I'll have to rot in a 9 by 12 cell for 20 years and get executed".
4. If you have any idea under what conditions maximum security inmates live under, I think you'd rather be executed than to live the rest of your pathetic life in a smelly, swelling hot cell.
Theres more, too. But I've made my point. Almost every argument supporting the death penalty can be countered using facts and evidence. To be honest, people who support the death penalty just want to have revenge on already totally screwed people. I think its cruel. The government should not have the authority to take any life of already convicted and suffering people.
By putting the cost of numerous appeals and associated jail time in with the cost of the execution itself, you are falsely inflating the cost of the execution. Those are costs that would be in place anyway...sometimes called "sunk costs". Do you think that people imprisoned for life don't appeal the bejesus out of their convictions? Are you including those costs with lifetime incarceration?
Fuzzy math ftl.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Ive seen a documentary about child molesters and rapists and if jail makes them a better person.Well,these sick bastards would just do the same when they are free,jail aint gonna change their minds,its a mental disorter at the end of the day.My point is,that most of the criminals would just get out of the jail to start robbing banks and raping women all over again.So yeah,death sentence helps a bit imoPureFodder wrote:
The death penalty seems fairly pointless as it doesn't appear to have any effect on reducing crime.
Current test methodologies have been and are being used to exonerate improperly imprisoned people. The problem is that unless the cases are actively pursued (usually by students/inmate advocates and not the judicial system), more often than not people proclaiming their innocence do not get the opportunity to have those new methodologies implemented for their case.FEOS wrote:
Then by your arguments, current test methodologies could be used to: 1) exonerate improperly imprisoned people, thus reducing the cost to the state; 2) reaffirm an inmate's conviction, making more appeals unnecessary and execution more swift, thus reducing the cost to the state; and 3) ensure that new capital convictions are backed by more rigorous evidence, lowering the number of appeals needed, thus reducing the cost to the state.
I agree with the second part of your post though - those costs are sunk costs, there because of the system. I'm sure different sources list different total costs per inmate in regards to death/life imprisonment sentences, I'll have to take a look.
I'll have to find the study on this very idea that shows states with death penalty sentences actually have a higher rate of homicides...PureFodder wrote:
The death penalty seems fairly pointless as it doesn't appear to have any effect on reducing crime.
edit: Found it, from this topic http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=76635&p=1
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-11-27 12:42:47)
I really could care less about the cost, i'd rather my money go towards their extermination than their care.Spark wrote:
You do realise that if often actually costs MORE to execute than to incarcerate someone (for life)?Dragonclaw wrote:
.:ronin:.|Patton wrote:
why should we pay for the care of murders, rapists, and child molesters in jail? Get rid of them all.
Facts ftw.
Strangely enough, the scum in those cells would say the same thing about you..:ronin:.|Patton wrote:
I really could care less about the cost, i'd rather my money go towards their extermination than their care.Spark wrote:
You do realise that if often actually costs MORE to execute than to incarcerate someone (for life)?Dragonclaw wrote:
Facts ftw.
And Ken, I was waiting for someone to bring that study up. While it appears very valid, and I have no question they've studied it more than I have, there are lots of studies that say differently. That chart is so simple, and quite obviously slanted towards the notion that the death penalty lowers homocide rates.
Check this out. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=168
Last edited by Spearhead (2007-11-27 12:56:46)
I'm against Death Penalty, why, well, its too good. You die and its over.
Here what they should do:
Prison Platform in the Pacific Ocean. The best idea.
No care, only torture. no guards.
Here what they should do:
Prison Platform in the Pacific Ocean. The best idea.
No care, only torture. no guards.
Last edited by colonelioan (2007-11-27 12:56:44)
an eye for an eye and we would all be blind
I know they would, and i have no time for the words of pieces of shit like them. They are nothing to me.Spearhead wrote:
Strangely enough, the scum in those cells would say the same thing about you..:ronin:.|Patton wrote:
I really could care less about the cost, i'd rather my money go towards their extermination than their care.Spark wrote:
You do realise that if often actually costs MORE to execute than to incarcerate someone (for life)?
Facts ftw.
Now say that in French.Cougar wrote:
i THINK IT WUD BE GOODER IF THEY JUST SENT EVRYONE INTIO THE OCEANS AND MADE MAKE THEM DROWNED,, INSTEAD OF HAVEING THEM INSIDE TEH PRISONS WERE THEY JUST EAT UP THE TAXPAYERES MONEYS AND EAT THERE FOOD, lol, THEY SHOULD JUST PUT THE BAD GUYS IN THE OCEANS AND THEN LET THEM DROWND,,!!!!!!
imho
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
The argument of the death penalty as a deterrent to capital offenses shouldn't really be used anyway. I seem to lean towards a position set forth in Gregg v. Georgia that the death penalty is necessary because some crimes are so heinous that they require it as a punishment.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Current test methodologies have been and are being used to exonerate improperly imprisoned people. The problem is that unless the cases are actively pursued (usually by students/inmate advocates and not the judicial system), more often than not people proclaiming their innocence do not get the opportunity to have those new methodologies implemented for their case.FEOS wrote:
Then by your arguments, current test methodologies could be used to: 1) exonerate improperly imprisoned people, thus reducing the cost to the state; 2) reaffirm an inmate's conviction, making more appeals unnecessary and execution more swift, thus reducing the cost to the state; and 3) ensure that new capital convictions are backed by more rigorous evidence, lowering the number of appeals needed, thus reducing the cost to the state.
I agree with the second part of your post though - those costs are sunk costs, there because of the system. I'm sure different sources list different total costs per inmate in regards to death/life imprisonment sentences, I'll have to take a look.I'll have to find the study on this very idea that shows states with death penalty sentences actually have a higher rate of homicides...PureFodder wrote:
The death penalty seems fairly pointless as it doesn't appear to have any effect on reducing crime.
edit: Found it, from this topic http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=76635&p=1
http://i16.tinypic.com/4xxh7h3.png
I am not completely against the death penalty. I think it should be used very rarily in cases where the crimes committed were extremely heinous, as desertfox said. I just think we use it way too much.
Yeah of course. But if someone makes some shit horrible:
1) We kill him -----> Is it more wise to do this?
2) We put him in jail for like 20 years ------> He comes back; WOW RAMPAGE, HE IS ON DRUGS, CAN'T STOP HIM!!!!! HEADSHOTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
1) We kill him -----> Is it more wise to do this?
2) We put him in jail for like 20 years ------> He comes back; WOW RAMPAGE, HE IS ON DRUGS, CAN'T STOP HIM!!!!! HEADSHOTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
When the death penalty is on the table, I believe the murderer at question would probably get that or life without parol.toutinette wrote:
Yeah of course. But if someone makes some shit horrible:
1) We kill him -----> Is it more wise to do this?
2) We put him in jail for like 20 years ------> He comes back; WOW RAMPAGE, HE IS ON DRUGS, CAN'T STOP HIM!!!!! HEADSHOTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
The death penalty does not reduce crime in the sense that it does not deter crime by the threat of capital punishment. If you are speaking of repeat offenders, then it is not necessary for the death penalty, but simply that they be jailed for long periods, if not life sentences. Jail is not necessarily punishment, but also rehabilitation or just removing the offender from society for a certain amount of time to prevent further crimes.Metal-Eater-GR wrote:
Ive seen a documentary about child molesters and rapists and if jail makes them a better person.Well,these sick bastards would just do the same when they are free,jail aint gonna change their minds,its a mental disorter at the end of the day.My point is,that most of the criminals would just get out of the jail to start robbing banks and raping women all over again.So yeah,death sentence helps a bit imoPureFodder wrote:
The death penalty seems fairly pointless as it doesn't appear to have any effect on reducing crime.
How is sentencing someone to death any less heinous, let alone the methods in administering a death sentence?Spearhead wrote:
I am not completely against the death penalty. I think it should be used very rarily in cases where the crimes committed were extremely heinous, as desertfox said. I just think we use it way too much.
The death sentence should be reserved for sociopathic murderers and serial killers - not because the crimes were heinous, but because they have shown an inability to positively function and interact with human society in any capacity.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-11-27 13:43:59)
So because the data doesn't support your position, it's "simple" and "quite obviously slanted"? That's a bit of a narrow-minded view.Spearhead wrote:
That chart is so simple, and quite obviously slanted towards the notion that the death penalty lowers homocide rates.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Yeah, the article you linked provides the same information that I provided - look again buddy.Spearhead wrote:
And Ken, I was waiting for someone to bring that study up. While it appears very valid, and I have no question they've studied it more than I have, there are lots of studies that say differently. That chart is so simple, and quite obviously slanted towards the notion that the death penalty lowers homocide rates.
Check this out. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=168
Do people here not even comprehend what they are looking at?
Against.
If this was a perfect world and things were 100% accurate I'd be for it.
But because evidence isn't always accurate I'm not.
If this was a perfect world and things were 100% accurate I'd be for it.
But because evidence isn't always accurate I'm not.
Last edited by lavadisk (2007-11-27 18:06:51)
? Did I confuse you chart with the other one? Sorry if I did.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Yeah, the article you linked provides the same information that I provided - look again buddy.Spearhead wrote:
And Ken, I was waiting for someone to bring that study up. While it appears very valid, and I have no question they've studied it more than I have, there are lots of studies that say differently. That chart is so simple, and quite obviously slanted towards the notion that the death penalty lowers homocide rates.
Check this out. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=168
Do people here not even comprehend what they are looking at?
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