Poll

Do you believe the goverment use's wars a way to earn money?

Yes59%59% - 39
No34%34% - 23
Maybe6%6% - 4
Total: 66
trackstarr
Member
+18|7139|Swing and a miss
Recently i have been reading War Is a Racket by Smedley D Butler (Most decorated ex Marine including 2 congressional medals of honor)
And it has been putting some insight into what dirty work the goverment puts our soldiers into to make some profit.

Do you believe war is a racket?
Elaborate.

The book
golgoj4
Member
+51|7212|North Hollywood
well since wars are usually about controlling taxable land or resources...yes? Personally i suspect the crusades are all about money but thats a long paper to write...
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7199

No.  The world was created with its current boarders and such.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6762|New Haven, CT
Governments don't earn money from war. Corporations earn money; they then contribute to the government who initiated it so this government can maintain power. "War is corporate welfare," although it's purpose on most items is more liberal than I, is still a correct axiom for this discussion.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6843|North Carolina
Well yeah, it's meant to make money.  It's called the military industrial complex, and it has become one of the main agendas that has run our government ever since the Cold War.

For all practical purposes, it controls our government more than any other group except for maybe the AARP.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7019|SE London

nukchebi0 wrote:

Governments don't earn money from war. Corporations earn money; they then contribute to the government who initiated it so this government can maintain power. "War is corporate welfare," although it's purpose on most items is more liberal than I, is still a correct axiom for this discussion.
And long term, the corporations in your country making money make the country richer (in theory).
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6849|'Murka

That is an overly cynical view.

"War is politics by other means"--Clausewitz

It all boils down to interests, which often have economic factors involved, but not always and not exclusively. War is extremely costly in both treasure and people--far more costly than diplomacy to achieve the same goals. But all parties involved have to agree to diplomacy. War? Not so much.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|7119|Disaster Free Zone
Yes, well sort of. Not so much to 'make' money but to stimulate the economy.

WWII is a great example of this.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6883|The Land of Scott Walker
That would be a no.  Government spends the money, corporations earn the money.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6843|North Carolina

DrunkFace wrote:

Yes, well sort of. Not so much to 'make' money but to stimulate the economy.

WWII is a great example of this.
You're correct that WW2 stimulated our economy.  This war hasn't done that though.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6843|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

That would be a no.  Government spends the money, corporations earn the money.
How about this?  Government spends the money that certain corporations earn, while corporations in the defense industry receive the money that the government spends during wartime.

In the end, the defense corporations are the winners here.  The government spends the money that the rest of us earn on defense industries for warfare.

I love how they call it defense though.  More often than not, we're on the offense.
TheEternalPessimist
Wibble
+412|7058|Mhz

Well the cost of the Iraq war is getting on for some random figure in the Trillions last I heard, can't see them making that back any time soon.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6843|North Carolina

TheEternalPessimist wrote:

Well the cost of the Iraq war is getting on for some random figure in the Trillions last I heard, can't see them making that back any time soon.
We, as the American people, will never see a payback for what we're spending on Iraq.  The defense companies are living it up though, as are the politicians in our government that own stock in them.
trackstarr
Member
+18|7139|Swing and a miss
Online Book

"Who provides the profits -- these nice little profits of 20, 100, 300, 1,500 and 1,800 per cent? We all pay them -- in taxation. We paid the bankers their profits when we bought Liberty Bonds at $100.00 and sold them back at $84 or $86 to the bankers. These bankers collected $100 plus. It was a simple manipulation. The bankers control the security marts. It was easy for them to depress the price of these bonds. Then all of us -- the people -- got frightened and sold the bonds at $84 or $86. The bankers bought them. Then these same bankers stimulated a boom and government bonds went to par -- and above. Then the bankers collected their profits."

Last edited by trackstarr (2007-11-25 20:11:25)

trackstarr
Member
+18|7139|Swing and a miss
"Up to and including the Spanish-American War, we had a prize system, and soldiers and sailors fought for money. During the Civil War they were paid bonuses, in many instances, before they went into service. The government, or states, paid as high as $1,200 for an enlistment. In the Spanish-American War they gave prize money. When we captured any vessels, the soldiers all got their share -- at least, they were supposed to. Then it was found that we could reduce the cost of wars by taking all the prize money and keeping it, but conscripting [drafting] the soldier anyway. Then soldiers couldn't bargain for their labor, Everyone else could bargain, but the soldier couldn't. "

Half of that wage (just a little more than a riveter in a shipyard or a laborer in a munitions factory safe at home made in a day) was promptly taken from him to support his dependents, so that they would not become a charge upon his community. Then we made him pay what amounted to accident insurance -- something the employer pays for in an enlightened state -- and that cost him $6 a month. He had less than $9 a month left

Last edited by trackstarr (2007-11-25 20:18:32)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7082
what makes that different than today?  You do realize that huge bonuses are given for brand new enlistees as well as incentive for service members to continue duty?
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6960|...

yes ... been that way ever since ape man smashed in another's skull with a big bone. No big mystery to that.

Last edited by jsnipy (2007-11-25 20:21:28)

{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7198|San Antonio, Texas

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

what makes that different than today?  You do realize that huge bonuses are given for brand new enlistees as well as incentive for service members to continue duty?
I believe the sign-on bonus for the army right now is $30,000.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7082
it all depends
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6437|...
the government doesn't make any profit out of war, if it wasn't for america acting like some sort of world bank it would've been crushed under the financial pressures long ago.

It's only those few who make profit from war, but certainly not the government.

Last edited by dayarath (2007-11-26 09:27:19)

inane little opines
TigerXtrm
Death by Indecency
+51|6806|Netherlands

The government invaded a country for oil, what the hell do you think?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7199

TigerXtrm wrote:

The government invaded a country for oil, what the hell do you think?
oh ya?  Got proof?
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6828

Well, usmarine, the defence companies do make a lot of money out of wars, if not the government itself.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7199

some_random_panda wrote:

Well, usmarine, the defence companies do make a lot of money out of wars, if not the government itself.
dude mentioned oil.... lets stick to that one
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6849|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

It's only those few who make profit from war, but certainly not the government.
The government makes no money, those IN the government make a packet.
Oh goody! I can't wait to get my check!

Oh, wait...government employees don't get bonuses. All of our salaries are publicly posted. Try again.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Many or most of the Republicans are connected with defense companies, arms companies and oil companies.
Its in their interests to start and perpetuate wars as long as possible.
And I'm sure no Democrats are connected to any of those companies...or any other companies that have made a profit off of war-time contracts. It's all the Republicans. They are evil.

Hyperbole and supposition with a little conspiracy theory thrown in...nice.

The bottomline here is that 1) the vast majority of those in government get absolutely nothing from war except unpaid overtime; and 2) those who get paid/bribed by lobbyists (ie, all of the legislative branch--both Rep and Dem) still have to turn in earnings reports every year...so why haven't they been busted by government watchdog groups?

You're trying to pin something exclusively on a single party, but that is folly. Oh, and there are some elected leaders who feel that the war has nothing to do with making corporations money and everything to do with fighting terrorism. I would hazard to say that the majority of them feel that way, with only a minority being evil enough to be actively profiteering on the war...and there's probably a nice mix of both parties in that minority group. Greed is politically agnostic.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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