Poll

Who knew about the "BF2 Ranked ROE" when the game FIRST came out?

WTF is the BF2 Ranked ROE58%58% - 17
No, I didn't know about it when the game first came out37%37% - 11
I found out about it when my stats were reset0%0% - 0
Yes, I knew about it when the game first came out3%3% - 1
Total: 29
teh adam
Member
+2|7113
Well I didn't know about it when the game first came out. I didn't know what an average score for a round was either nor did I know what stat padding was when the game first came out.

Also if you chose option 4 please explain how you knew about the "BF2 Ranked ROE".

Here is the BF2 Ranked ROE that you never officially agree to when you install the game or set up an account:
1. GLOBALLY ENFORCED RANKED SERVER RULES
These are rules that all admins/players using ranked servers are expected to observe and are set by EA under the EULA.
a. You may not arrange for the exchange or transfer of any pirated software or other contraband while you are on our servers or these Services, this will lead to immediate ban.
b. You may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) on any of our services. Clan recruiting is not prohibited.
c. You may not change (hack) any core game files or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.
d. Server admins may not change any game settings defined as standard for ranked servers (ticket ratios, server password, round time, etc.)
e. Server admins may not explicitly or implicitly (by actions) enforce restrictions on vehicles or weapons that players can use while on your server (e.g. knives only, aircraft prohibited except for clan members, etc.)
f. Server admins may not explicitly or implicitly (by actions) enforce restrictions on roles or kits that players can use while on your server e.g. Commander, Squad Leader, Spec Ops, etc.)
g. Server admins may not use non-standard maps or modified versions of standard maps.
h.Players may not use or exploit game mechanisms to artificially boost their scores ("stats padding") and Server admins may not knowingly allow or encourage this activity on their servers.
i. Players may not Impersonate EA ADMINS.

2. EA OFFICIAL PUBLIC SERVER RULES
These are rules that EA official server admins enforce to maintain friendly, disciplined servers and are in addition to the global rules defined above.
a. You may not use any offensive or sexually explicit language in chat or voice mode. Not adhering to this rule will result in a warning followed by a kick or ban.
b. You may not use foul or slanderous language involving race, gender, sexual preference, religion or creed. Not adhering to this rule will result in a warning followed by a kick or ban.
c. You may not deliberately hinder your own team by Team-killing, destroying friendly vehicles or assets, or acting in such as way as to cause team mates unavoidable deaths or team-kills.
Not adhering to this rule will result in a warning then kick (for wounding or damaging) or an immediate kick or temporary ban for deliberate kills.
d. You may not display abusive behavior towards administrators. If you feel that you have been treated unfairly, you may lodge an appeal on the official forums /ticket system (www.bf2rankedservers.com).
Not adhering to this rule will result in a warning followed by a kick or ban.

3. LOCAL (PRIVATELY RENTED) SERVER RULES
These are rules that are not enforced upon EA's public servers but may be in use upon privately rented servers. These rules are decided by the administrators for those servers and as long as they do not contradict any global rules enforced by EA are considered valid for those servers.
Examples of valid local rules *could* include:
- No artillery fire or bombing runs on main (uncapturable) bases.
- No prolongued or sustained attacks on main (uncapturable) bases (i.e. spawncamping).
- No using the Transport Helicopters to take flags (Blackhawk whoring or flag hopping).
- No impersonating clan members.
- No using C4 on jeeps or other fast moving vehicles to take out other vehicles.
I think you should have to agree to it like a regular EULA/TOS (you know the ones that you actually have to press agree for). Then I will "Give it a rest".
kontrolcrimson
Get your body beat.
+183|7254|Australia
i learnt them pretty quickly.
you should have read what you were agreeing to when you installed the game.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7274|San Francisco

It's called common sense... every online game has a TOS, and it's always filled with the same stuff. Anyone who has ever played a multiplayer game should know these general rules.
teh adam
Member
+2|7113

kontrolcrimson wrote:

i learnt them pretty quickly.
you should have read what you were agreeing to when you installed the game.
I did... you agree to the EA TOS, the IGN Privacy Policy, the IGN User Agreement, the PB EULA (below), and the EA Tools EULA (below). NOT the BF2 Ranked ROE

tF-voodoochild wrote:

It's called common sense... every online game has a TOS, and it's always filled with the same stuff. Anyone who has ever played a multiplayer game should know these general rules.
There isn't anything about statpadding in any other games I have played (COD, UT, HALO, CS, FEAR, NFSU) They all go along with the EA TOS but that only covers exploiting and EA is screwing people on the stat padding which is NOT defined in anything you actually agree to.

PB EULA wrote:

SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

The terms of this Software License Agreement (this "Agreement") shall apply to all versions, editions, and future updates of PunkBuster software and constitute a legal agreement between you (the "Licensee") and Even Balance, Inc. (the "Licensor").

BY INSTALLING, ENABLING OR USING PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE, THE LICENSEE IS CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND IS BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF LICENSEE DOES NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, ACCEPTANCE MUST NOT BE SPECIFIED BELOW AND LICENSEE MUST NOT INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE.

EVEN BALANCE, INC. RESERVES ALL RIGHTS NOT SPECIFICALLY GRANTED HEREIN.

Licensor grants Licensee a non-exclusive and non-transferable license to use PunkBuster software only for non-commercial entertainment purposes. Licensee may not disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, redistribute (in any form), create derivative works of, or modify PunkBuster software in any way. Licensor reserves the right to terminate the license at any time and for any reason, or no reason at all, and without notice to licensee. Additionally, upon breach of any term of this Agreement, the license granted under this Agreement shall automatically terminate without any additional notice to Licensee. Upon termination of the license, Licensee shall destroy all copies of PunkBuster software in Licensee’s possession.

Licensee acknowledges that PunkBuster software is optional and is not a requirement in any respect for using or enjoying games that integrate PunkBuster software technology. Licensee also acknowledges and agrees that PunkBuster software is self-updating, which means that future updates will, from time to time and without any notice, automatically be downloaded and installed as a normal and expected function of PunkBuster software. Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed.  Further, Licensee consents to allow PunkBuster software to transfer actual screenshots taken of Licensee’s computer during the operation of PunkBuster software for possible publication. Licensee understands that the purpose and goal of PunkBuster is to ensure a cheat-free environment for all participants in online games. Licensee agrees that the invasive nature of PunkBuster software is necessary to meet this purpose and goal. Licensee agrees that any harm or lack of privacy resulting from the installation and use of PunkBuster software is not as valuable to Licensee as the potential ability to play interactive online games with the benefits afforded by using PunkBuster software.

Licensee agrees not to export or re-export into any country subject to U.S. trade sanctions or to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to any nationals or residents of such countries unless such nationals are permanent residents of a country that is not subject either to such sanctions or embargoed goods. LICENSEE AGREES NOT TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL, OR USE PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE IN A COUNTRY OR LOCALE WHERE SUCH ACTION WOULD VIOLATE ANY LAW OR ORDINANCE.

This Software License Agreement shall be construed in accordance with and governed by the applicable laws of the State of Texas and applicable United States federal law. Exclusive venue for all litigation regarding this Agreement shall be in Harris County, Texas. Licensee agrees that any portion of this Agreement found to be invalid or unenforceable shall be modified, to the extent allowed by law, so as to allow for the enforcement of the original intended meaning of the portion found to be invalid or unenforceable.

PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, AND WITHOUT LIMITATION, THAT IT IS FREE OF DEFECTS, FIT FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR THAT IT IS MERCHANTABLE. LICENSOR DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE OPERATION OF PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE OR THAT IT WILL MEET LICENSEE'S SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS OR DESIRES. LICENSEE AGREES THAT NEITHER EVEN BALANCE, INC., ITS OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, SHAREHOLDERS, EMPLOYEES, CONTRACTORS, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS, SUCCESSORS NOR ASSIGNS SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM WHATSOEVER INVOLVING PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE IN ANY WAY. FURTHERMORE, SHOULD ANY VERSION OF PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE, INCLUDING FUTURE VERSIONS, PROVE DEFECTIVE IN ANY WAY, LICENSEE ASSUMES THE ENTIRE COST, IF ANY, OF LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY TYPE AND TO ANY DEGREE. THIS WARRANTY DISCLAIMER SHALL SURVIVE TERMINATION OF THE LICENSE OF PUNKBUSTER SOFTWARE BY LICENSEE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE LICENSE IS TERMINATED BY EVENBALANCE, INC. OR LICENSEE.

This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between Licensor and Licensee and supercedes any prior statements, whether written or oral.

EA Tools EULA wrote:

EA TOOLS END USER LICENSE

Electronic Arts Inc, and its subsidiaries, affiliates and licensors
(collectively, "EA") grants you a non- transferable non-exclusive license to
download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool ("Tool") and/or
materials ("Materials") (collectively the "Tools & Materials") solely for your
personal noncommercial use in connection with EA's products, in accordance with
the terms below.

EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials. You may
not alter any of EA's trademarks or logos, or alter or remove any of EA's
trademark or copyright notices included in or with the Tools & Materials or
EA's products. Your right to use Tools & Materials is limited to the license
grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, distribute, perform,
publish, modify, create works from, or use any of the Tools & Materials.
Without limiting the preceding sentence, you may not modify, reverse engineer,
disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the
Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial purpose.  Without
limiting the foregoing, you may not use the Tools & Materials to promote
another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server
emulator.

You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal
noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for
EA's products and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following
notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located:
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EA WILL NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS.  PLEASE DO NOT CALL OR
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Last edited by teh adam (2006-02-06 21:47:17)

dan500
Member
+57|7274
I knew about them after i went to the BF2RS website.. I cant go there no more, they banned my IP and not given me a reson why
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7274|San Francisco

teh adam wrote:

There isn't anything about statpadding in any other games I have played (COD, UT, HALO, CS, FEAR, NFSU) They all go along with the EA TOS but that only covers exploiting and EA is screwing people on the stat padding which is NOT defined in anything you actually agree to.
EA came out with an official announcement saying that statpadding is against the rules as it is in fact exploiting the ranking system. They also said anyone found doing such actions would have their stats reset. This is plenty of warning for me.

ROE wrote:

These are rules that all admins/players using ranked servers are expected to observe and are set by EA under the EULA.
You did agree to the EULA, so in effect you agreed to the ROE.
teh adam
Member
+2|7113

tF-voodoochild wrote:

ROE wrote:

These are rules that all admins/players using ranked servers are expected to observe and are set by EA under the EULA.
You did agree to the EULA, so in effect you agreed to the ROE.
I know I technically did but is the "BF2 Ranked ROE" in the EA TOS... no. Or an even a better question does the EA TOS mention the "BF2 Ranked ROE"... no. So how was anyone suppose to know it was there?

tF-voodoochild wrote:

EA came out with an official announcement saying that statpadding is against the rules as it is in fact exploiting the ranking system. They also said anyone found doing such actions would have their stats reset. This is plenty of warning for me.
An EA representative said they could wipe your stats at any time. So if you "statpadded" before they released that announcement then you are still screwed.

Last edited by teh adam (2006-02-06 21:44:34)

tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7274|San Francisco

teh adam wrote:

tF-voodoochild wrote:

ROE wrote:

These are rules that all admins/players using ranked servers are expected to observe and are set by EA under the EULA.
You did agree to the EULA, so in effect you agreed to the ROE.
I know I technically did but is the "BF2 Ranked ROE" in the EA TOS... no. Or an even a better question does the EA TOS mention the "BF2 Ranked ROE"... no. So how was anyone suppose to know it was there?
Of course the ROE is not mentioned in the TOS, this is because the TOS was created before the ROE ever existed. The Rules of Engagement are there for those brave souls who wish to become Ranked Server Admins to enforce. They are simply points pulled out of the EULA that have been clarified for the Admins to follow and keep games clean and fun. If you had read the EULA then you would already be following all of the Rules of Engagement and should have no problem with these things. Each of these rules only stands to improve the quality of gameplay, what exactly is your issue with it?
teh adam
Member
+2|7113
That you are agreeing to something you couldn't have possibly read.

Basically... why couldn't they make you agree to the "BF2 Ranked EULA" when you installed the game?
teh adam
Member
+2|7113

EA EULA wrote:

You will not exploit any bug in the Service or in any EA product to gain unfair advantage in the game and you will not communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.
That could be just about anything and thats why they clarified it. But I don't get why they don't make you agree to the clarified rules... it would obviously get rid of serveral agruements.

Having more points doesn't give you an advantage except for being a commander and EA doesn't care about that because then they would make the wait times a mandatory minute or something.

Anyone could say that blahblahblah has an advantage because they have more points, but even if you earned those points without padding you could still lose them because of this term in the TOS.

Last edited by teh adam (2006-02-06 22:02:09)

tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7274|San Francisco

It's been awhile since I've had to reinstall BF2, but I'm still fairly sure that whatever it is you have to agree to says almost exactly the same things that every other TOS and EULA says. Don't exploit the software, don't make copies of the software, don't distribute the software, etc. Stat padding is exploiting the way the ranking system works, hence it is in conflict with the EULA. Sure stat padding isn't specifically mentioned in the EULA, lots of things aren't mentioned specifically because then absolutely NOONE would read the 2000 page long EULA, not to mention the fact that when the game was released DICE/EA could not possibly think up all the crazy ways that people would exploit the game. Hence the vague terminology.

It's clear that you are not happy with EA resetting people for stat padding because you think they never agreed to not stat pad. This is not the case. EA made specific announcements about resetting accounts, and the vague terminology in the EULA very easily covers their actions. Tough luck.
FunKz
Member
+1|7207|Melbourne, Australia

tF-voodoochild wrote:

Tough luck.
Exactly, build a bridge
teh adam
Member
+2|7113
ya im unhappy with it... I just don't think they should be able to screw you over for something that you did when everything was an unknown (like before they made the announcement).

We obviously have different opinions, which is fine, so I think I will stop argueing.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7274|San Francisco

teh adam wrote:

I just don't think they should be able to screw you over for something that you did when everything was an unknown (like before they made the announcement).
Stat padding is an exploitation of the stats system. Thus it falls within the EULA. It was not an unknown. That is all there is to it...
Hyper
Banned
+154|7178

dan500 wrote:

I knew about them after i went to the BF2RS website.. I cant go there no more, they banned my IP and not given me a reson why
http://proxymod.com/

teh adam
Member
+2|7113

tF-voodoochild wrote:

teh adam wrote:

I just don't think they should be able to screw you over for something that you did when everything was an unknown (like before they made the announcement).
Stat padding is an exploitation of the stats system. Thus it falls within the EULA. It was not an unknown. That is all there is to it...
Have you ever played a game of pistols and knives in Counterstrike? When the game was released I saw those servers and thought "hey that sounds like fun" and joined and played those games. Later on I relized what was wrong with it.(ie pistol/knives=stat padding which equals exploiting) I relized it WAS exploiting the ranking system according to EA, so I stopped.

Im sorry I did not relize it was exploiting the ranking system according to EA... but I think the system could be a little bit more forgiving. It should be two strikes your out IMO (ie one warning and then the next time you get your stats reset).

I may have disagreed with you earlier on with the EULA thing, but the only point im trying to get across is that you shouldn't be screwed over for it... ok.

It was an unknown to me and im pretty sure you answered that with "tough luck". So i was pretty sure the discussion between you and me was over.

I have already relized that you don't agree with me and I don't agree with people getting screwed over because of what someone thinks is exploiting.

Most things there are open to interpretation... and its EA's interpretation that matters. SO tough luck as you said yourself.

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