Pages: 1 2

 

2007-12-01 20:34:48
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

This was a pretty popular topic in the Temp forums.


Starts slow but the initial demand for license and registration contains just enough ‘tude to make it worth watching in full. If you can’t be bothered, skip ahead to 2:00 or (-8:00 if you’re counting down) and see what happens when electricity is introduced into the mix of an ornery cop, a driver who doesn’t take him seriously, and his pregnant wife. The investigation’s already begun.

The Utah Highway Patrol has a nine-page policy on Taser use, including in instances where “a subject is threatening himself, an officer or another person with physical force, and when other means of controlling the subject are unreasonable or could cause injury to the officer, the subject or others,” Nigbur said.Any threat of injury to the officer here?



I am reposting it now because we have a judgment from Utah officials.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/ … ME_3561663
Traffic-Stop Taser Cop Acted "Reasonably"
Utah Officials Say Trooper Felt Threatened In Incident Widely Viewed On YouTube Website
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-12-01 20:52:25
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7120|Dayton, Ohio
looked simple enough to me, the guy refused to cooperate.  just take the ticket and fight it in court.  Don't try to walk away from a cop that is trying to hand you a ticket.
2007-12-01 20:57:42
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6569|North Tonawanda, NY

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

looked simple enough to me, the guy refused to cooperate.  just take the ticket and fight it in court.  Don't try to walk away from a cop that is trying to hand you a ticket.
What?  That cop was being a total dick.  The motorist in question didn't do anything threatening.  I hope he (the cop) gets sued.
2007-12-01 20:57:53
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7110|UK
Thank god for the EU^^
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-12-01 21:02:20
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7120|Dayton, Ohio
Cop are always dicks, That is why you had them your paper work, get your ticket and deal with it in court.  Easier to deal with a judge than to take your chances with an ass of a cop who may or may not have just argued with his wife and found out his christmas bonus is a 5lb frozen turkey.

The cop only used the taser because he refused to follow instructoins, that by the way, were not very demanding or unreasoable.

Yes I have had my share of runnins with cops in a bad mood.  I was on a major highway in the right lane about .5 miles from my exit when I saw twp cops at an accident sceen that was off in the right ditch.  They were pulled about 30 feet off past the white line, partially in the grass.  I slowed to make sure I was doing the speed limit when I passed them.  As I got on the ramp one of them pulled up behind me and followed me.  As I was crossing the highway he pulled me over.  His excuse - I did not significantly slow down or change lanes when I passed them and I was endangering the officers at the sceen.  I handed him my in formation and informed him that I did not change lanes because I needed to exit and there was an SUV in my blind spot to the left.  He ran my info and returned - by the way we were on the side of a bridge and now he was standing in traffic instead of 30 feet off the side of the highway - I asked him how slow I should have been going so that I avoid this type of problem in the future.  He couldn't give me an answer, I asked if I should have been doing 55 instead of 65, he just repeated that I should have significantly slowed down.  My wife was next to be fuming.  Finally he let me go with a warning, after his bud rolled up in a second car, aparently the accident was not very important since the both left to give me a hard time.  The point is the guys were being dicks because they could and wanted to make a point.  I did not refuse to cooperate and I was as respectful as I could be while making my point and trying to get an explination.  I held my tought and did not tell the guy that I had slowed down from 80 to 65 in the first place.

Last edited by KnowMeByTrailOfDead (2007-12-01 21:14:18)

2007-12-01 21:03:03
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

The investigation was conducted by officials in the Department of Public Safety, which oversees the highway patrol. The officials have asked the Utah attorney general's office to also review the case to determine if laws were broken.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-12-01 21:18:56
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7010|USA
the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
2007-12-01 21:31:11
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7072|Sin City

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
2007-12-01 21:33:12
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7155
The guy that got pulled over was being a dick from the start... Ive been pissed off also... being pulled over... but i would sign the summons and be on my way... 

This guy refused to do anything the officer said and when the girlfriend in the car started yelling while he told the guy not to walk away... the officer had to get control of the situation...   

The officer didnt know if the other passenger had a weapon...   The guy that got pulled over was way to billigerent about a silly speeding ticket... 

settle it in court...
Love is the answer
2007-12-01 21:41:44
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|7268|Denver colorado
Sad that it had to come to that but O.K.

At least the cops don't have people assassinated in this country
2007-12-01 21:45:47
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7010|USA

D6717C wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for. when the cop asked him to step out of the car by law he
must read the rights and give an EXACT reason for arrest.
          yes, maybe he was legally allowed to use the taser, but that doesn't mean he should. tasers, like all weapons of force, are for use only when they absolutely must. if he had shot him would you be arguing the same? for all intents and purposes, the same rules to using a taser apply to using a gun as well.
 
edit: and like i said, the guy was in the wrong.

Last edited by Ender2309 (2007-12-01 21:49:12)

2007-12-01 21:49:29
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7072|Sin City

Ender2309 wrote:

D6717C wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for.
No, they don't. I am a cop. We only have to read them to you during "custodial interrogation". That means if we ask you something that would incriminate you, while you are in custody...ie: detained and not free to leave. If I arrest you for anything and don't want to ask you questions about it then  we don't read it to you. For some reason everybody is a closet attorney from watching television, but you are totally wrong. If you are under arrest and we ask you a question that doesn't relate to the crime you are under arrest for, then we don't have to read them to you either.
2007-12-01 21:49:53
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

Ender2309 wrote:

D6717C wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for.
I initially thought that. But actually it has to be read at any time between arrest and interrogation. Basically it just means you can't use anything they say in court if you don't. Someone here posted that and I was talking about this with a friend of mine who is a lawyer.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-12-01 21:50:47
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7010|USA

Kmarion wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

D6717C wrote:


How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for.
I initially thought that. But actually it has to be read at any time between arrest and interrogation. Basically it just means you can't use anything they say in court if you don't. Someone here posted that and I was talking about this with a friend of mine who is a lawyer.
thats not what my AP gov book says. source?
2007-12-01 21:55:13
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7072|Sin City

Ender2309 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for.
I initially thought that. But actually it has to be read at any time between arrest and interrogation. Basically it just means you can't use anything they say in court if you don't. Someone here posted that and I was talking about this with a friend of mine who is a lawyer.
thats not what my AP gov book says. source?
I don't know what your book says, but trust me on this. I respect your strong opinion, but the public generally has no idea what a Miranda Warning is for. Do a search for the case law online:

http://www.mirandawarning.org

"The Miranda Warning is a police warning which is given to criminal suspects who are in the custody of law enforcement in the United States before they can ask questions regarding what took place during the crime."

Law enforcement can only ask for specific information such as name, date of birth and address without having to read the suspects their Miranda warnings. Confessions and other information that you provide them will not make up admissible evidence unless you have been made aware of and waived your "Miranda rights".

The Miranda warnings were mandated by the 1966 United States Supreme Court decision in the case of Miranda v. Arizona as to protect a criminal suspect's Fifth Amendment right to help avoid self-incrimination during police interrogation. This was once referred to as undergoing the ‘third degree

Last edited by D6717C (2007-12-01 21:56:07)

2007-12-01 21:55:56
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

Ender2309 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for.
I initially thought that. But actually it has to be read at any time between arrest and interrogation. Basically it just means you can't use anything they say in court if you don't. Someone here posted that and I was talking about this with a friend of mine who is a lawyer.
thats not what my AP gov book says. source?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
First sentence. Pay close attention to before they are asked questions relating to the commission of a crime.

..The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he or she has the right to remain silent,
Confusion regarding use

Due to the prevalence of American television programs and motion pictures in which the police characters frequently read suspects their rights, it has become an expected element of arrest procedure. In the 2000 Dickerson decision, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that Miranda warnings had "become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture." Dickerson v. United States 530 U.S. 428 (2000). However, police are only required to warn an individual whom they intend to subject to custodial interrogation at the police station, in a police vehicle or when detained. Arrests can occur without questioning and without the Miranda warning — although if the police do change their mind and decide to interrogate the suspect, the warning must then be given. Furthermore, if public safety (see New York v. Quarles) warrants such action, the police may ask questions prior to a reading of the Miranda warning, and the evidence thus obtained can sometimes still be used against the defendant.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-12-01 22:02:53
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7010|USA
@D6: i'll never distrust somebody who can back up what they say.

@ both: thanks.
2007-12-01 22:04:42
Zilla
Killa of threads
+122|7080|7th level of hell

D6717C wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.

and I suppose that these cops were "IN THE RIGHT" too???

cops these days thinks they are the fucking judge and jury and get to tell people what is OK to say and do. whats next, cops will be telling us which books to BURN????

Last edited by Zilla (2007-12-01 22:06:57)

2007-12-01 22:08:07
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7072|Sin City

Ender2309 wrote:

D6717C wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

the guy was in the wrong, mostly, but he should not have been tased, and he should not have been arrested. the cop handled the situation poorly and impatiently.

as well, the cop violated the man's miranda rights; if he doesn't lose his job for that, well, i really don't know what to say here but it really pisses me off.

Tasers are not doing what they were designed to do. we need to bid them farewell, because they're inviting cops to become lazy.
How did he violate his Miranda rights? You Miranda warning is for when you are being asked questions that would incriminate you when you are being detained. Nothing more. That asshole got tased because he walked away from the cop and refused to sign the citation. A citation is issued "in place of arrest", meaning by signing it you are waiving your right to be brought in front of a judge right then....ie: being arrested for a misdemeanor crime. If you don't sign the ticket and decide to be an asshole and just walk away, what are we supposed to do.....just say "oh, ok then, sorry for bothering you.....go ahead and do whatever the hell you want". Um...no. You don't walk away, and get in your car and drive off. The other choice would have been for that cop to attempt to physcially restrain the asshole.....which leads to getting into a fight on the side of the road by yourself until another officer arrives to assist you. Bottom line is, you sign the damn ticket and fight it in court. That cop was totally within thier policy for tazing him, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people take the side of some idiot that was totally out of line in the first place.
never be a cop. by law miranda rights MUST be read at arrest. thats what they're for. when the cop asked him to step out of the car by law he
must read the rights and give an EXACT reason for arrest.
          yes, maybe he was legally allowed to use the taser, but that doesn't mean he should. tasers, like all weapons of force, are for use only when they absolutely must. if he had shot him would you be arguing the same? for all intents and purposes, the same rules to using a taser apply to using a gun as well.
 
edit: and like i said, the guy was in the wrong.
Of course he would not be justified if he had shot him with a firearm. That's not the point. His only other option is to put his hands on the guy and now be involved in a fight with a male that he has no idea if the guy is armed, or if there is a weapon in the vehicle that he was going for. And he is by himself, while the guys wife is running around doing ????? while they are fighting. You guys just don't seem to understand that we have laws and rules in a civilized society for a reason, and there are consenquenses for not following them. We have to have order, and his use of the tazer is a much safer way to take him into custody that beating the shit out of him. If you were ever involved in a fight and had someone try to take your gun away from you, you would understand. If you have ever been to a cops funeral, you would understand. We use tazer's on people that we used to have to shoot and kill. The same rules do not apply to using a gun.

Last edited by D6717C (2007-12-01 22:10:57)

2007-12-01 22:09:16
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7072|Sin City

Ender2309 wrote:

@D6: i'll never distrust somebody who can back up what they say.

@ both: thanks.
No prob.....thanks to you too
2007-12-01 22:17:08
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

No one is saying the cop wasn't a douche. But walking away from an officer towards your car with your hands in or around your pockets could possibly be seen as a threat. That is at least from my point of view. I'm not a trained law enforcement officer of course.

https://i11.tinypic.com/71n4zg8.jpg

https://i13.tinypic.com/72qipmo.jpg

https://i13.tinypic.com/6y05yjb.jpg

https://i18.tinypic.com/6p4ydu0.jpg
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-12-01 23:42:30
Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6668|NSW, Australia

fucking cop
2007-12-01 23:53:59
CowboySwim
Member
+24|6624|BEHIND YOU!!!
I guess that the guy who got pulled over was kind of being a dumbass by not just signing the ticket and fighting it later, but I don't understand how the cop could deny him the right to see the speed limit sign.  The man just said that he wanted to see the speed limit sign and why he got pulled over and as soon as he got out of the car the cop proceeded to arrest him.  Now I know that that is the cops job when a person isn't signing the citation, but when the man tried to walk back to his car (bad idea obviously) the cop should not have tased him...he should have told the man that he needed to stay out of the car, or to stop walking or he would tase him...I don't know, I'm not a cop so maybe I shouldn't even be posting here, but I feel that this particular cop used an excessive amount of force for the situation.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
2007-12-01 23:55:57
BVC
Member
+325|7134
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/ … 7803.shtml

The UN says tasers are a form of torture.
2007-12-02 00:03:53
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7040|132 and Bush

Pubic wrote:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/25/national/main3537803.shtml

The UN says tasers are a form of torture.
So aren't bullets to the side of your cranium.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

 

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