Erm. He's fighting a legacy of corrupt pro-western governments allowing the country to be raped of its resources for a pittance. He is certainly going to go too far but the nationalisation of oil for me is a no-brainer. Unfettered free trade stinks and damages the lower echelons in any non first world society. He has to address the mismanagement of the past. Unfortunately his vision seems quite extreme.TrollmeaT wrote:
Ahh yes chavez, the thief whom stole companys facilitys. That is what they do, take by force. Look at them in another 5 or 10 years.
It's like something out of atlas shrugged.
There you go, i'm right, right?CameronPoe wrote:
A recent demographic study found that almost 97% of Americans were descendants of the French.Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
Technically, if it wasn't for Europeans, Americans wouldn't be like you are, like, because alot of the settlets were British, French and Spanish, alot of Americans are decendants of Europeans right? Or am i wrong?
Well... nm.CameronPoe wrote:
A recent demographic study found that almost 97% of Americans were descendants of the French.Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
Technically, if it wasn't for Europeans, Americans wouldn't be like you are, like, because alot of the settlets were British, French and Spanish, alot of Americans are decendants of Europeans right? Or am i wrong?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Cuz they have too much free time
I'm not even going to read this. It was a stupid assumption 5 months ago and it's still a stupid assumption now.
It would be interesting to do a comparison between the number of people immigrating (both legally and illegally) to the US and Europe.CameronPoe wrote:
We ain't trying to infuse anyone with anything mate. We don't export political systems except to those on the European subcontinent. And very successful we have been too. The pinnacle of political development in my mind are the welfare states of Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. We have plenty of individual freedom over here, you seem to think this is some kind of police state (no phone tapping here). If you are the 'beacon of the world' then why do many countries respond in a virulently opposed manner to your interventions: Afghanistan, Cuba, Iraq, any number of Latin American nations....TrollmeaT wrote:
What I meant is that the europeans are constantly trying to infuse the United States with old ideas & systems that never worked & have been proven not to work through history. They are obsessed to know why we are so successful & the answer is individual freedom.
We are the current beacon to the world, the model of how things should work. I admit we do have problems that need tweaking but for the most part we're on the right track.
Hope that clears things up a little.
On a side note I'm part french canadian so I guess there's something to the survey, my other half is descendant from the white russians.
Europe is just as much of a success as the US is: and that's after having been brought to near destruction but 60 years ago.
For some reason, as bad as we are...people still risk everything to come here. They must be evil at heart, as well...right?
I wonder if as many risk everything to go to Europe, with those "pinnacles of political development". Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by "welfare state". Over here, that has a somewhat negative connotation--of giving people a hand out instead of a hand up.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Probably worth noting that most of the immigrants to America are from South America and Mexico, and the immigration is a result of American influence damaging the countries to such an extent to force the immigration in the first place. If you want to know why so many Mexicans are illegally immigrating go read about NAFTA. They aren't risking everything to get to America out of choice, they're finding they have nothing left to risk and are being economically pushed into America.FEOS wrote:
It would be interesting to do a comparison between the number of people immigrating (both legally and illegally) to the US and Europe.CameronPoe wrote:
We ain't trying to infuse anyone with anything mate. We don't export political systems except to those on the European subcontinent. And very successful we have been too. The pinnacle of political development in my mind are the welfare states of Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. We have plenty of individual freedom over here, you seem to think this is some kind of police state (no phone tapping here). If you are the 'beacon of the world' then why do many countries respond in a virulently opposed manner to your interventions: Afghanistan, Cuba, Iraq, any number of Latin American nations....TrollmeaT wrote:
What I meant is that the europeans are constantly trying to infuse the United States with old ideas & systems that never worked & have been proven not to work through history. They are obsessed to know why we are so successful & the answer is individual freedom.
We are the current beacon to the world, the model of how things should work. I admit we do have problems that need tweaking but for the most part we're on the right track.
Hope that clears things up a little.
On a side note I'm part french canadian so I guess there's something to the survey, my other half is descendant from the white russians.
Europe is just as much of a success as the US is: and that's after having been brought to near destruction but 60 years ago.
For some reason, as bad as we are...people still risk everything to come here. They must be evil at heart, as well...right?
I wonder if as many risk everything to go to Europe, with those "pinnacles of political development". Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by "welfare state". Over here, that has a somewhat negative connotation--of giving people a hand out instead of a hand up.
so what about the last century? Or the one before that. Does it really matter that immigrants are coming from latin america? Stupid question, it doesnt.
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
There you go, i'm right, right?CameronPoe wrote:
A recent demographic study found that almost 97% of Americans were descendants of the French.Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
Technically, if it wasn't for Europeans, Americans wouldn't be like you are, like, because alot of the settlets were British, French and Spanish, alot of Americans are decendants of Europeans right? Or am i wrong?
The point is that current immigration to America isn't necessarily because people are following the American dream and see America as a wonderland, it can be (and currently mainly is) the results of American policy destroying the lives of foreigners and forcing them into America, hence high immigration to a country is not obviously a sign of society being wonderful and can in fact be quite the opposite. So yes, it does matter where they're coming from. As far as the preceeding centuries go, America was a vast country with a tiny population density, hence large net immigration to America is what you'd expect regardles of societies.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so what about the last century? Or the one before that. Does it really matter that immigrants are coming from latin america? Stupid question, it doesnt.
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?avman633 wrote:
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
There you go, i'm right, right?CameronPoe wrote:
A recent demographic study found that almost 97% of Americans were descendants of the French.
Actually, that's a very valid question. There is no way that 97% of us are of French descent. We have a very high immigration rate, many of whom come from areas outside of Europe. Mexico is the most obvious case of a non-French or non-European source of immigrants.Vilham wrote:
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?avman633 wrote:
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
There you go, i'm right, right?
Granted, I guess if you go back far enough, you could say that most Mexicans can trace their lineages all the way back to the ancient Gauls, but that's a bit of a stretch to say they are of French descent.
Mexicans more with Spain and Canada with France.Turquoise wrote:
Actually, that's a very valid question. There is no way that 97% of us are of French descent. We have a very high immigration rate, many of whom come from areas outside of Europe. Mexico is the most obvious case of a non-French or non-European source of immigrants.Vilham wrote:
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?avman633 wrote:
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?
Granted, I guess if you go back far enough, you could say that most Mexicans can trace their lineages all the way back to the ancient Gauls, but that's a bit of a stretch to say they are of French descent.
True, but I was referring to how the people of Spain are related to the French if you go back far enough.^*AlphA*^ wrote:
Mexicans more with Spain and Canada with France.Turquoise wrote:
Actually, that's a very valid question. There is no way that 97% of us are of French descent. We have a very high immigration rate, many of whom come from areas outside of Europe. Mexico is the most obvious case of a non-French or non-European source of immigrants.Vilham wrote:
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?
Granted, I guess if you go back far enough, you could say that most Mexicans can trace their lineages all the way back to the ancient Gauls, but that's a bit of a stretch to say they are of French descent.
yeah, could go on and on with that, we're all Africans!Turquoise wrote:
True, but I was referring to how the people of Spain are related to the French if you go back far enough.^*AlphA*^ wrote:
Mexicans more with Spain and Canada with France.Turquoise wrote:
Actually, that's a very valid question. There is no way that 97% of us are of French descent. We have a very high immigration rate, many of whom come from areas outside of Europe. Mexico is the most obvious case of a non-French or non-European source of immigrants.
Granted, I guess if you go back far enough, you could say that most Mexicans can trace their lineages all the way back to the ancient Gauls, but that's a bit of a stretch to say they are of French descent.
I was about to say that, actually... lol...^*AlphA*^ wrote:
yeah, could go on and on with that, we're all Africans!Turquoise wrote:
True, but I was referring to how the people of Spain are related to the French if you go back far enough.^*AlphA*^ wrote:
Mexicans more with Spain and Canada with France.
Unless of course, you believe in that silly Creationist thing...
No but that doesn't mean that 97% of them are of French descentVilham wrote:
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?avman633 wrote:
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
There you go, i'm right, right?
USA 2004 figure: 2.8 millionFEOS wrote:
It would be interesting to do a comparison between the number of people immigrating (both legally and illegally) to the US and Europe.CameronPoe wrote:
We ain't trying to infuse anyone with anything mate. We don't export political systems except to those on the European subcontinent. And very successful we have been too. The pinnacle of political development in my mind are the welfare states of Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. We have plenty of individual freedom over here, you seem to think this is some kind of police state (no phone tapping here). If you are the 'beacon of the world' then why do many countries respond in a virulently opposed manner to your interventions: Afghanistan, Cuba, Iraq, any number of Latin American nations....TrollmeaT wrote:
What I meant is that the europeans are constantly trying to infuse the United States with old ideas & systems that never worked & have been proven not to work through history. They are obsessed to know why we are so successful & the answer is individual freedom.
We are the current beacon to the world, the model of how things should work. I admit we do have problems that need tweaking but for the most part we're on the right track.
Hope that clears things up a little.
On a side note I'm part french canadian so I guess there's something to the survey, my other half is descendant from the white russians.
Europe is just as much of a success as the US is: and that's after having been brought to near destruction but 60 years ago.
For some reason, as bad as we are...people still risk everything to come here. They must be evil at heart, as well...right?
I wonder if as many risk everything to go to Europe, with those "pinnacles of political development". Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by "welfare state". Over here, that has a somewhat negative connotation--of giving people a hand out instead of a hand up.
EU 2005 figure: 1.8 million
Bear in mind we have tighter borders and repatriate illegals, which you don't seem to do.
Over here welfare state has a positive or neutral connotation. It simply describes our socio-political system.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-08 10:54:02)
We certainly want tighter borders and deportation of illegals (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "repatriate"?). Our left-leaning politicians over here somehow think that's cruel.
Can you provide the source for your numbers? Are those legal or illegal immigrants?
Can you provide the source for your numbers? Are those legal or illegal immigrants?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
We, being a world superpower makes everyone concerned what our intensions are eh?
duh, we gives a flying fuck about what The Netherlands wants?Steveo7800 wrote:
We, being a world superpower makes everyone concerned what our intensions are eh?
Normal people aren't. They generally ( generalising here ) can't stand USA. It's the suck up politicians who don't want to "break their awesome friendship" with America. Also, it's very likely that Bush has to spoon fed and the Europeans are scared that Bush "accidentally" declares war with someone.
I don't care if the USA is a superpower, you are being led by a monkey on hash and I think that you have to be looked out for. Who knows what might happen in the last months of presidency for Bush.
I don't care if the USA is a superpower, you are being led by a monkey on hash and I think that you have to be looked out for. Who knows what might happen in the last months of presidency for Bush.
Lamely enough, the wikipedia page for immigration.FEOS wrote:
We certainly want tighter borders and deportation of illegals (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "repatriate"?). Our left-leaning politicians over here somehow think that's cruel.
Can you provide the source for your numbers? Are those legal or illegal immigrants?
I looked there and didn't see the stratification needed to compare legal and illegal immigration.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
im not saying it does. But the statement only 31 million people are immigrants kinda ignores the fact that only native Americans are native to America. Everyone else came from Europe at some point.avman633 wrote:
No but that doesn't mean that 97% of them are of French descentVilham wrote:
Do you actually think Americans have lived in America for all time? Didnt you study your history at all?avman633 wrote:
97%? How is that possible if 31 million people are immigrants?