Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|7067|Washington, DC

I always see arguments over the illegal immigration problem in the US. I thought up this idea one day on how to fix immigration, maybe. I don't know how expensive or difficult it would be to implement... but I think it's better than building a fence.

Anybody who has ever tried to immigrate to the US legally, especially applying for a green card, knows the process is VERY lengthy and VERY expensive. Most Mexican families are quite poor, but they DO want to fix their lives and sort of pursue the "American dream." They cannot afford to properly immigrate to the US, so they risk their lives to get over here. YES it is illegal. BUT, surely there's a better solution to it than just saying "NO"?

For one, there should be a special visa. It should allow people to stay in the US legally, and to seek jobs. It should be somewhat affordable, and should not take too long to acquire (within reason of course, with regards to security and the like). With this visa, families could immigrate into the United States and get real jobs, and not have to worry about being deported. Then they can work their way to getting permanent residence.

For illegals who live in the US right now, there should be a sort of amnesty program. All illegals can apply to acquire the aforementioned special visa. If accepted, they are placed under "watch." They must show an effort to get and maintain a job, and to not leech off the system. They must stay out of crime. After a year (or something), they can be eligible for getting the visa to let them stay in the US. People who obviously came here to steal from the system and not to help their lives, or those who get involved in crime, should be denied and deported.

Obviously this is far more simplified than what it would really be. I don't know how feasible it would be, what all the technical parts would be, etc.

But what do you think?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina
Your idea has been proposed by Congress before...  sort of.

It would be feasible if it weren't for the precedent set by it.  If we give amnesty to those who come here illegally, it removes most of the incentives for following our laws.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6848|'Murka

Amnesty is a non-starter. A guest worker program (basically what you are proposing) is what Bush has been advocating for a while now, but most of the Congress is against it.

Personally, I think there should be a guest worker program of sorts, providing a path to citizenship. What better way to show you are a good candidate for citizenship than by following our rules (byzantine though they may be), working hard, paying into the system from which you benefit, and thereby helping your (soon to be) fellow countrymen?

In contrast, what a terrible way to start: breaking the law by coming here illegally, breaking the law by either falsifying your documents or receiving payment without paying taxes, partaking of the social programs that you aren't helping to fund by not paying taxes thereby creating a further drain on the resources of this country that you supposedly love yet can't be bothered to enter, work, and live legally. Then when you get caught, you scream racism about the people trying to enforce the law, further dividing the country...while completely ignoring the fact that the operative word in illegal alien is...wait for it...ILLEGAL.

Deep breath...in with the good air...out with the bad...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6543|eXtreme to the maX
Australia has a reasonable system.

Immediate residence if you're young enough and/or skilled enough - the older you are the more skilled you need to be - Leads to citizenship after a while.
Various guest worker programs - some of which can lead to residence.
Tough enforcement against illegals.
Fuck Israel
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7038|132 and Bush

I had a similar topic once before. It is extremely hard to get in here legally. I know people who have tried for over ten years. I think Germany might be one of the few other countries that make it more difficult.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7111|Canberra, AUS

Dilbert_X wrote:

Australia has a reasonable system.

Immediate residence if you're young enough and/or skilled enough - the older you are the more skilled you need to be - Leads to citizenship after a while.
Various guest worker programs - some of which can lead to residence.
Tough enforcement against illegals.
Yeah, I suggested implementing this policy some time ago.

Frowned down due to practicability.

I suppose that's fair enough - Australia, anyway you look at it, is an island, and seaborders are a damned sight easier to patrol than land borders.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
aj0404
It'll just be our little secret
+298|6786|Iowa...
that's basically what the Guest Worker Program is,although i believe it's been voted down many times.i don't believe illegals already here should receive amnesty,otherwise we are pretty much rewarding them for breaking the law.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7038|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Australia has a reasonable system.

Immediate residence if you're young enough and/or skilled enough - the older you are the more skilled you need to be - Leads to citizenship after a while.
Various guest worker programs - some of which can lead to residence.
Tough enforcement against illegals.
Yeah, I suggested implementing this policy some time ago.

Frowned down due to practicability.

I suppose that's fair enough - Australia, anyway you look at it, is an island, and seaborders are a damned sight easier to patrol than land borders.
I agree, but you should visit Miami some time.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina
As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6966|Global Command

FEOS wrote:

Amnesty is a non-starter. A guest worker program (basically what you are proposing) is what Bush has been advocating for a while now, but most of the Congress is against it.

Personally, I think there should be a guest worker program of sorts, providing a path to citizenship. What better way to show you are a good candidate for citizenship than by following our rules (byzantine though they may be), working hard, paying into the system from which you benefit, and thereby helping your (soon to be) fellow countrymen?

In contrast, what a terrible way to start: breaking the law by coming here illegally, breaking the law by either falsifying your documents or receiving payment without paying taxes, partaking of the social programs that you aren't helping to fund by not paying taxes thereby creating a further drain on the resources of this country that you supposedly love yet can't be bothered to enter, work, and live legally. Then when you get caught, you scream racism about the people trying to enforce the law, further dividing the country...while completely ignoring the fact that the operative word in illegal alien is...wait for it...ILLEGAL.

Deep breath...in with the good air...out with the bad...
Amnesty is a non-starter.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6848|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
As I've said many times before: Why is the US embargo on Cuba such a big deal? Are there no other countries in the whole wide world that can trade with Cuba? Why isn't Cuba trading with them?

To think that opening up trade with the US will suddenly transform Cuba is naive. Cuba won't transform until the Cubans decide they want to.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6992

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
As I've said many times before: Why is the US embargo on Cuba such a big deal? Are there no other countries in the whole wide world that can trade with Cuba? Why isn't Cuba trading with them?

To think that opening up trade with the US will suddenly transform Cuba is naive. Cuba won't transform until the Cubans decide they want to.
Cuba is opening up gradually of its own accord. It trades plenty with countries other than the US and the tourism it gets from Canadians and Europeans is exploding exponentially. It just beats the anti-embargo drum because all regimes need an enemy to deflect attention towards (although the US rightly deserves such attention after Bay of Pigs, Luis Posada Carriles, assassination attempts, etc.) and away from the failings of themselves.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6848|'Murka

Cam, even you have to admit that we have pretty much left Cuba and Castro alone for decades.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6992

FEOS wrote:

Cam, even you have to admit that we have pretty much left Cuba and Castro alone for decades.
Yes. The US has been totally hands off for decades, which I have to commend them on. You don't have to trade with another country if you don't want to.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-18 02:58:00)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
As I've said many times before: Why is the US embargo on Cuba such a big deal? Are there no other countries in the whole wide world that can trade with Cuba? Why isn't Cuba trading with them?

To think that opening up trade with the US will suddenly transform Cuba is naive. Cuba won't transform until the Cubans decide they want to.
Well, since a good portion of them are desperate enough to get on rafts and float over here, I'd say that's a sign that the people want change.

I figure you and I could agree that trading with Cuba will change them dramatically because of how large of a market we are.  Aren't you more of a free market capitalist type?  I generally lean in that direction, although China still bothers me.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7081

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
did you know Cuba was very close to becoming a US territory, then state, back in the beginning of last century.
LT.Victim
Member
+1,175|6999|British Columbia, Canada
/bad joke...

I think the US should just make a huge Walmart along the whole border, the Americans can shop in the front (on the US side) and then the Mexicans can work in the back(on the Mexico side), that way everyone is happy.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
did you know Cuba was very close to becoming a US territory, then state, back in the beginning of last century.
Very true.  We should've just taken it.  Instead, we have the useless island of Puerto Rico.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6905
Make big walls along the Rio-Grande, stock the RG with crocodiles and fly MD530/AH-1Z Hunter/Killer teams up and down it. If they can get past that they are given allowed to apply for citizenship (after passing an English profiency test, English as second language courses will be offered to them for free) as the test proves they have the courage, skill, intelligence and work ethic that shows they deserve the right to live in America.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina

LT.Victim wrote:

/bad joke...

I think the US should just make a huge Walmart along the whole border, the Americans can shop in the front (on the US side) and then the Mexicans can work in the back(on the Mexico side), that way everyone is happy.
That was called NAFTA.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7038|132 and Bush

Most Cubans who have left Cuba have a beef with Castro for whatever reason... not necessarily economic. Two of my closest friends (families) fled Cuba. They party in Miami every time they get a hint that Castro has died. Kripp can back me up on that..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
geNius
..!.,
+144|6879|SoCal
There are three reasons why it is ignorant to compare anyone else' system to the US.

1)  Border size

2)  Desire to get in

3)  Cost
https://srejects.com/genius/srejects.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6848|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
As I've said many times before: Why is the US embargo on Cuba such a big deal? Are there no other countries in the whole wide world that can trade with Cuba? Why isn't Cuba trading with them?

To think that opening up trade with the US will suddenly transform Cuba is naive. Cuba won't transform until the Cubans decide they want to.
Well, since a good portion of them are desperate enough to get on rafts and float over here, I'd say that's a sign that the people want change.

I figure you and I could agree that trading with Cuba will change them dramatically because of how large of a market we are.  Aren't you more of a free market capitalist type?  I generally lean in that direction, although China still bothers me.
I'm not saying we shouldn't open up trade with Cuba. All I'm saying is that blaming Cuba's economic woes on the US embargo is ridiculous compared to the market that is available to them...everywhere else in the world.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6842|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:


As I've said many times before: Why is the US embargo on Cuba such a big deal? Are there no other countries in the whole wide world that can trade with Cuba? Why isn't Cuba trading with them?

To think that opening up trade with the US will suddenly transform Cuba is naive. Cuba won't transform until the Cubans decide they want to.
Well, since a good portion of them are desperate enough to get on rafts and float over here, I'd say that's a sign that the people want change.

I figure you and I could agree that trading with Cuba will change them dramatically because of how large of a market we are.  Aren't you more of a free market capitalist type?  I generally lean in that direction, although China still bothers me.
I'm not saying we shouldn't open up trade with Cuba. All I'm saying is that blaming Cuba's economic woes on the US embargo is ridiculous compared to the market that is available to them...everywhere else in the world.
Well, I'm not really blaming their woes on us.  Sorry if it came off that way.  I'm just saying that the only reason we aren't trading with them right now is because of a small group of fanatics who hate Castro.

We need to help edge out Communism from Cuba by opening trade with them.
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|7067|Washington, DC

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

As a side note, Miami wouldn't get flooded with Cubans if we'd just go ahead and lift the embargo.  Cuba would quickly become a capitalism if we'd just open our trade up with them.  The damn anti-Castro Cuban fanatics won't let that happen though.
did you know Cuba was very close to becoming a US territory, then state, back in the beginning of last century.
I remember in ye olde 1800s they wanted to take Cuba, but it didn't fly out of fear that it'd be a slave state.

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