CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7006|Portland, OR, USA
Just got this email, an interesting look at the past year..

The 2007 bad news quiz

January 2, 2008
By Richard W. Rahn

How many Americans died from "bird flu" in 2007?

Answer: No one. A year and a half ago, the global news media was awash with stories about how a major epidemic of bird flu was almost a certainty. A number of stories darkly referred to the great flu epidemic of 1918 when some 50 million people died. Some congressional Democrats were attacking President Bush and the pharmaceutical companies because not enough Tamiflu - the drug seen as the best available treatment for the avian flu - was being produced. Now many of the production lines are idle and the companies cannot find enough government and other buyers for the vaccine.

Since the threat of bird flu was first identified several years ago, fewer than 300 people in the entire world are known to have died from it. (By way of comparison, about 150 Americans die each day from automobile accidents.)

Bird flu remains a potential danger, but because the threat was overhyped by some scientists, government officials, and media folks, a new real threat may end up being discounted.

How much did the federal budget deficit rise in 2007?

Answer: It did not rise, it got much smaller. The deficit has been declining rapidly for the last three years and is now only about 1 percent of gross domestic product, which is far lower than the average deficit for the last half-century.

Left-wing ideologues, such as Paul Krugman of the New York Times, have been predicting for years that the Bush tax cuts would lead to ever-growing deficits. Wrong again.

It is ironic that the Democrat Congress, through its own incompetence, may hand President Bush a nearly balanced budget this fiscal year. This could occur because the Democrats did not pass their budget before the beginning of the new fiscal year on Oct. 1, and hence has to resort to "continuing resolutions" for the first quarter of the fiscal year, which froze spending at the previous year"s levels. Because they were anxious to go home for Christmas (or skiing), they capitulated to a number of the president"s demands to reduce spending a bit from their wish list. The result of all of this is that federal spending may be somewhat lower than was predicted a few months ago, and federal tax revenues may continue to come in at higher than predicted levels.

When did the recession of 2007 begin?

Answer: It never started. CNN and other news media are quoting polls showing many Americans think the economy has been in a recession. But the economy has grown in every quarter of 2007, and employment is at a record high, despite the subprime mortgage problem and the rise in oil prices.

Economic growth in 2007 will be more than 2 percent - not great, but not a disaster or a recession. The reason so many think the U.S. is in a recession is the unbalanced reporting about the economy from many in the left-leaning media who overly report the comments of Bush-hating politicians and the bad, but not the good, numbers.

How did foreign investment endanger the U.S. economy and security in 2007?

Answer: It only helped. The United States is benefiting from a continuing high flow of foreign investment capital, which despite the cries of economic know-nothings is good, rather than bad, and is one of the major reasons the economy did not go into recession in 2007. Foreign investment funds jobs for American workers, brings new technologies, finances more than 13 percent of U.S. research and development, and fuels U.S. exports.

Some in Congress and elsewhere dislike foreign investment in general or have unduly worried about the national security risk of it, particularly from China. However, there is a process (i.e. CFIUS) to ensure there are appropriate national security "firewalls" with any foreign investment. Fortunately, most desirable foreign investments were not stopped in 2007.

Artificially curtailing foreign investment, as some advocate, would lead to a greater chance of a recession in 2008.

How much warmer did the Earth get in 2007?

Answer: It did not get any warmer. In fact, actual measurements show there has been no statistically significant increase in global temperatures since 2001, contrary to what the models used by the global-warming alarmists have been predicting (you might have noticed the weather models have predicted many more tropical storms and hurricanes in the Atlantic and Caribbean for the last two years than actually occurred).

Predicting disaster and bad news sells newspapers, boosts TV ratings, enables politicians to find excuses to tax more and reduce our liberties, and creates new lobbies from those who benefit from the government grants.

Most of us have learned to question the predictions of sports figures or those trying to sell us something because they have a vested interest in the outcome. We need to treat the predictions of various disasters with the same caution and skepticism.

We would all like our politicians, reporters, lawyers, and scientists to be totally pure in their motives - but, being human, many are not.

Richard W. Rahn is the chairman of the Institute for Global Economic Growth.
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6929|Connecticut
+1 4 u
Malloy must go
chittydog
less busy
+586|7271|Kubra, Damn it!

He could have saved a lot of time and just issued a statement saying that Democrats are poopyheads.

And I'm now glad to hear that an economist thinks he knows more about the environment than scientists. I remember learning a lot of meteorology when I took economics.

Last edited by chittydog (2008-01-07 19:01:46)

Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6892|The edge of sanity

chittydog wrote:

He could have saved a lot of time and just issued a statement saying that Democrats are poopyheads.

And I'm now glad to hear that an economist thinks he knows more about the environment than scientists. I remember learning a lot of meterology when I took economics.
Most meterologist don't know their asses from their heads. They are not the people we should be asking. Climatologist are the peopl we need to talk to.
chittydog
less busy
+586|7271|Kubra, Damn it!

Point taken. Thank you for agreeing that we should be listening to experts.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6965|Global Command
So, are you saying Bush is not an asshole?
Because that would fly in the face of popular sentiment.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7006|Portland, OR, USA

ATG wrote:

So, are you saying Bush is not an asshole?
Because that would fly in the face of popular sentiment.
No, Bush is still an asshole.  This just proves that he is not alone in his asshole..dom
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+697|6727|Washington St.
A little Repulican biased but interesting none-the-less.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6841|North Carolina
As someone with an economic background, I can honestly say...





don't bother with chain emails.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7006|Portland, OR, USA
yeah I didn't really agree with the economic or security stuff.. but the global warming and bird flu issues were ineteresting
PureFodder
Member
+225|6722
It's the problem with things like bird flu, you find a problem, go to massive lengths to prevent it, then everyone complains that they didn't die from it. One of the main reasons that Bird flu and SARS didn't kill huge numbers of people is because we took the scientists seriously and acted on the information.

A big problem that gets sorted promptly and stopped looks alot like an over-hyped problem.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6986|CH/BR - in UK

Recession is now under way... 2008 started with a huge fall in the stock market. The dollar is at it's lowest. Are you saying the US economy has not gotten worse?

edit
just saw:
yeah I didn't really agree with the economic
nevermind what I said above then

-konfusion

Last edited by konfusion (2008-01-08 02:55:13)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7194|Argentina
Signed GWB and pals.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6847|'Murka

konfusion wrote:

Recession is now under way... 2008 started with a huge fall in the stock market. The dollar is at it's lowest. Are you saying the US economy has not gotten worse?

edit
just saw:
yeah I didn't really agree with the economic
nevermind what I said above then

-konfusion
No. Recession is not underway. There have not been two consecutive quarters of negative growth, which is the definition of a recession. That doesn't mean the economy hasn't had issues...it's just not in recession.

Nothing was done about bird flu, except media hype. There has been a lot of planning about dealing with pandemic influenza in general, but nothing has been done about it.

Interesting that there haven't been any factual counters to any of the claims in the OP...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6978|Outer Space

FEOS wrote:

Nothing was done about bird flu, except media hype. There has been a lot of planning about dealing with pandemic influenza in general, but nothing has been done about it.
Really? The ban on movement(except to slaughterhouse) and exports on anything with feathers after they found two dead birds must have been a figment of my imagination then. As was the 3km infected area and 10km risk zone? Orders to keep the poultry in closed spaces away from wild birds? Ban on hunting said birds? Boiling of drinking water in said zones?

And keep in mind that they didn't even know if it was actually the H5N1 subtype, but those were the precautions to prevent the possibility of it spreading to humans if it was...

Oh, and the gov ordered enough Tamiflu for 1/4 of the country, does that count as nothing too(dunno if it got delivered, but that's what the lying cheating politicians said...)?

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above. After all, if the US didn't single handedly defeat the virus, then it must have been nothing... I mean, who cares what measures were undertaken and how much poultry was killed around the world to prevent the spread of the virus, it wasn't in the US, so it doesn't count...

But if we're talking only about the US, shouldn't the thread title be "The 2007 bad news in the US quiz"? Oh well...
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6847|'Murka

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above.
Read the OP.

kthxbye.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7277|Cologne, Germany

I cannot comment on US domestic issues, but as far as the bird flu is concerned, I know that in Europe a lot was done to stop the spread of the virus. With good reason. H5N1 is a bad motherfucker, and changes every day. If we don't take steps to stop it now, we will be faced with a much bigger problem later.

And as far as global warming is concerned, as I understand it, it is a very slow process. 6 years are surely not enough time to judge its effects.
The fact remains though, that global warming is happening, that it is man-made, and that it is a serious problem for the future of the whole planet.
Even the US government has admitted that.
The fact that some of us may not live to see the effects of global warming doesn't mean it's not happening, or that we should do nothing about it.
That is short-sighted in the best sense of the word.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6986|CH/BR - in UK

FEOS wrote:

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above.
Read the OP.

kthxbye.
Read the rest of his post, kthxbye

Also, the dollar has lost so much of its value and has been predicted to fall further - in fact, economists have predicted thah this year will be crap for stocks - how is that not recessionary? Look around you, man.

-konfusion
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6566|North Tonawanda, NY

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above. After all, if the US didn't single handedly defeat the virus, then it must have been nothing... I mean, who cares what measures were undertaken and how much poultry was killed around the world to prevent the spread of the virus, it wasn't in the US, so it doesn't count...

But if we're talking only about the US, shouldn't the thread title be "The 2007 bad news in the US quiz"? Oh well...
How many Americans died from "bird flu" in 2007?
It is a US-centric question with a US-centric response.  I don't really know why you would have expected a different response given the specific reference to Americans.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6847|'Murka

konfusion wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above.
Read the OP.

kthxbye.
Read the rest of his post, kthxbye

Also, the dollar has lost so much of its value and has been predicted to fall further - in fact, economists have predicted thah this year will be crap for stocks - how is that not recessionary? Look around you, man.

-konfusion
I did. Kind of had to in order to delete the part that was irrelevant to the OP.

I don't have to look around me. Go to any economic reference and look up the definition of recession. Is the economy in a downturn? Of course it is. I never argued otherwise. Is it in a recession? No.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7194|Argentina
Bird flu: a lot of people died in Asia (HK almost went to bankruptcy coz of it), and if nothing happened last year maybe it was because the measures taken worked.

GW: Greenland melting down, 40º Celsius in summer here in Buenos Aires every fucking day, the coldest winters, cmon.

US Economy: read today's NYTimes where GWB admits the economy is facing challenges, in his own words, and almost admitting the nation is about to enter a recession.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-08 07:11:36)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6722

SenorToenails wrote:

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above. After all, if the US didn't single handedly defeat the virus, then it must have been nothing... I mean, who cares what measures were undertaken and how much poultry was killed around the world to prevent the spread of the virus, it wasn't in the US, so it doesn't count...

But if we're talking only about the US, shouldn't the thread title be "The 2007 bad news in the US quiz"? Oh well...
How many Americans died from "bird flu" in 2007?
It is a US-centric question with a US-centric response.  I don't really know why you would have expected a different response given the specific reference to Americans.
The bird flu media hype was justified and so was the response. If the attempts by the world to stop it hadn't been sucessful and the US government hadn't bothered to take any steps to protect it's citizens then head would (probably literally) roll. Better to make too much vaccine than risk loosing a decent precentage of your population. The fact that the world banded together to prevent it is irrelevant. Look at the shit the US government got for poor emergency response to Katrina.

As far as bird flu goes, the news was not (for once) being overly sensationalist.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6978|Outer Space
Ok, with help files enabled this time:

OP wrote:

How many Americans died from "bird flu" in 2007?

Answer: No one. A year and a half ago, the global news media was awash with stories about how a major epidemic of bird flu was almost a certainty. A number of stories darkly referred to the great flu epidemic of 1918 when some 50 million people died. Some congressional Democrats were attacking President Bush and the pharmaceutical companies because not enough Tamiflu - the drug seen as the best available treatment for the avian flu - was being produced. Now many of the production lines are idle and the companies cannot find enough government and other buyers for the vaccine.

Since the threat of bird flu was first identified several years ago, fewer than 300 people in the entire world are known to have died from it. (By way of comparison, about 150 Americans die each day from automobile accidents.)

Bird flu remains a potential danger, but because the threat was overhyped by some scientists, government officials, and media folks, a new real threat may end up being discounted.

FEOS wrote:

Nothing was done about bird flu, except media hype. There has been a lot of planning about dealing with pandemic influenza in general, but nothing has been done about it.

Interesting that there haven't been any factual counters to any of the claims in the OP...
Let us focus on the first part, and the quote from FEOS now. Global news media was awash with stories about a major epidemic of bird flu. Very well. I think we will all recognise, that this was a global threat, the spread of virus being much easier than in the past(or so the theories go) because of air travel. Now we focus on this, that no Americans died of bird flu, and that all the media hype was false(or at least overhyped). Indeed, but why did no Americans die?

We come to my quote now:

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Really? The ban on movement(except to slaughterhouse) and exports on anything with feathers after they found two dead birds must have been a figment of my imagination then. As was the 3km infected area and 10km risk zone? Orders to keep the poultry in closed spaces away from wild birds? Ban on hunting said birds? Boiling of drinking water in said zones?

And keep in mind that they didn't even know if it was actually the H5N1 subtype, but those were the precautions to prevent the possibility of it spreading to humans if it was...
This indicates that people elsewhere did something, and that something was done. Which is the reason that US didn't have to do anything. Or would you indeed prefer that you have a case of bird flu in US, and have to exterminate a bunch of poultry on your farms? That way, you would have to do something, no?

Which means that doing nothing was actually a good thing. Which means all the media hype around the world helped stop some rather unpleasant scenarios. Which means that that part of the OP article is a bunch of bollocks, and that the hype did help. There's a factual counter for you right there. US didn't have to do anything, cos the rest of the world closer to the problem didn't let it go that far. That's what that part is about. But read on and see what ties it all together so it make sense.

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Oh, and the gov ordered enough Tamiflu for 1/4 of the country, does that count as nothing too(dunno if it got delivered, but that's what the lying cheating politicians said...)?
Well, thank god(if you believe in one) that there was no need for Tamiflu, or would you prefer there WAS need for it? In US specifically? So that there was enough Tamiflu, and other governments ordered it too(profits for US companies, YAY) is bad because there was no epidemic so they could sell MORE of it? Well, dang, we should do nothing next time(as the article implies we would). And for the record, our government couldn't get as much Tamiflu as it wanted, cos there was not enough at the time...

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above. After all, if the US didn't single handedly defeat the virus, then it must have been nothing... I mean, who cares what measures were undertaken and how much poultry was killed around the world to prevent the spread of the virus, it wasn't in the US, so it doesn't count...
No you numpties, that does not mean you should ignore the above FFS, did no one teach you to read between the lines? Do I really need to write big arse answers like this to explain it properly?

There were precautions taken in other countries(that's why I wrote about the figments of my imagination ). No effect on US, but US media reported(hyped) about it. Now read this part again:

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Wait, wait, waitSarcasm Alert!!!. We're talking about the US, not the world? Well, in that case, ignore the above. After all, if the US didn't single handedly defeat the virus, then it must have been nothing...
This is a clear dig at the US, and that you think you ARE the world. And that if something doesn't happen in the US, it isn't a problem. Like pollution you put out(we put it out too, be quiet now, that's not the point) isn't the problem for the rest of the world? And that if you didn't have to do anything, your companies shouldn't have increased the production of Tamiflu(if it's even effective)? And, again, that you having to do nothing(or very little) was actually bad(I quote: "Nothing was done about bird flu, except media hype.")? WTF else do you want? People were warned by the media hype, you want to close the airports too?

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

But if we're talking only about the US, shouldn't the thread title be "The 2007 bad news in the US quiz"? Oh well...
Oh well indeed. Why bring global problems into a US topic, trying to pass as just US specific problems? Bird flu and Global warming are the examples of that in the article. GLOBAL. Because, like in my example, that makes that problems seem like a non issue, because US didn't have to do anything(do much anyway) about it. Because of articles like that, it may indeed happen as predicted in the article. Making the Bird flu a non issue in the US, and catch you unprepared.

Furthermore, you should notice that my original post was never edited, so that is an indication of that sarcasm alert thingy. Which is a dead giveaway that you should NOT ignore the first part, but take the post as a whole, and see that it's actually a critique of the article and the blindness of some people that if it isn't happening in their country, hype was unjustified. And that there should be no hype.

Anyway, I see that you cannot handle the superior intellect and wit of this eurotrash, so why indeed should I amuse you with more of my posts?(Alert, alert, engage all detectors!)




P.S. The above is in no way or form an attempt to save my reputation of somewhat diminished wit and intellect... Anyone saying something else is lying, LYING you hear?

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