I hope that was sarcasm.Im_Dooomed wrote:
Well if the documentary "Sicko" by Micheal Moore caries any weight, Abu Ghraib is freaking top of the line in treating prisoners...
You do realise that Israelis have guns that can shoot round corners and military know-how and expertise that would put the US to shame? They're as chicken as Hamas and Hisb'allah despite their supreme military advantages - neither can fight fair so they resort to killing anyone in a given radius. They're practically two sides of the same coin.David.P wrote:
Allright cam maybe they will start going door to door again if you convince hamas and hisbollah to stop using bombs and booby traps, And make them fight like real men With knife, gun, or your bare fists! Until then Israel will keep bombing suspected hideouts.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-22 13:09:35)
We know we can't have the whole of Israel, simply because the Palestinian population is becoming pretty large, and making them go *poof* is impossible.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't quite think you're up on your knowledge of the situation in Israel/Palestine. HAMAS control GAZA. FATAH control what little the Israelis have left them of THE WEST BANK. I must correct you on your assertion regarding Hamas, an organisation I find despicable: they do not kill people just because they are not Arab - they kill whatever Israeli they can successfully launch something at. Hamas actually negotiated the release from captivity of BBC reporter Alan Johnston. Why didn't they cut his head off?M.O.A.B wrote:
The country is run by an openly terrorist group intent on killing civilians, one because they're not Arab, two because they're Jewish. I think I'd put a travel restriction on them as well especially when they're so hard to tell apart. You might not be able to cut-off the head of the snake, but you can starve it instead. If the Palestinians want to have everything restored they should learn not to support a terrorist group thats in control of their country. If they took a stand against Hezbollah everything would end up for the better in the end.
Now. I am not talking about travel restrictions in GAZA - I am talking about the concentration camps that have effectively been created in THE WEST BANK, which is controlled by a party that believes in a two state solution with a Palestinian state sitting peacefully alongside an Israeli state. Israel's policy in the West Bank is one of strangulation of the Palestinians to try and get to them to leave. It is absolutely impossible for the West Bank to have any kind of a prosperous economy - the only thing capable of normalising relations and leading to a two state solution. Israel are not interested in a two state solution you see. They'd rather visit many of the things their own kin had to suffer in the Warsaw Ghetto upon West Bank Palestinians because they want a Greater "Eretz Y'Israel".
All the Israelis have done in Palestine since the last century is take, take, take. All at the expense of the poor Palestinians.
http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ahdla8j.XB … estine.gif
I thought Moses said "Thou shalt not steal".
And you have to understand that each time the arabs initiated war against us, we fought back and claimed more land.
And the "poor" Palestinians aren't that poor.They themselves rejected the 1947 offer, and they supported their arabs neighbors in each and every war against us. The Islamic radicals and their organizations are receiving much support over there, and if I recall correctly the Palestinian people chose Hamas (A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION) to represent them in their first democratic elections.
Their aggressiveness just made us more angry, and I don't think they deserve to have every piece of land they want.
And Cam, are you calling us chicken because we care too much about our soldiers?
Sending in men to go face to face against terrorists should be avoided at all cost.
Anyway, it's getting late here so good night and thanks to whoever gave me karma.
Last edited by Shadowolf (2008-01-22 13:12:21)
Whereas Israel does deserve to take every piece of land they want?Shadowolf wrote:
We know we can't have the whole of Israel, simply because the Palestinian population is becoming pretty large, and making them go *poof* is impossible.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't quite think you're up on your knowledge of the situation in Israel/Palestine. HAMAS control GAZA. FATAH control what little the Israelis have left them of THE WEST BANK. I must correct you on your assertion regarding Hamas, an organisation I find despicable: they do not kill people just because they are not Arab - they kill whatever Israeli they can successfully launch something at. Hamas actually negotiated the release from captivity of BBC reporter Alan Johnston. Why didn't they cut his head off?M.O.A.B wrote:
The country is run by an openly terrorist group intent on killing civilians, one because they're not Arab, two because they're Jewish. I think I'd put a travel restriction on them as well especially when they're so hard to tell apart. You might not be able to cut-off the head of the snake, but you can starve it instead. If the Palestinians want to have everything restored they should learn not to support a terrorist group thats in control of their country. If they took a stand against Hezbollah everything would end up for the better in the end.
Now. I am not talking about travel restrictions in GAZA - I am talking about the concentration camps that have effectively been created in THE WEST BANK, which is controlled by a party that believes in a two state solution with a Palestinian state sitting peacefully alongside an Israeli state. Israel's policy in the West Bank is one of strangulation of the Palestinians to try and get to them to leave. It is absolutely impossible for the West Bank to have any kind of a prosperous economy - the only thing capable of normalising relations and leading to a two state solution. Israel are not interested in a two state solution you see. They'd rather visit many of the things their own kin had to suffer in the Warsaw Ghetto upon West Bank Palestinians because they want a Greater "Eretz Y'Israel".
All the Israelis have done in Palestine since the last century is take, take, take. All at the expense of the poor Palestinians.
http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ahdla8j.XB … estine.gif
I thought Moses said "Thou shalt not steal".
And you have to understand that each time the arabs initiated war against us, we fought back and claimed more land.
And the "poor" Palestinians aren't that poor.They themselves rejected the 1947 offer, and they supported their arabs neighbors in each and every war against us. The Islamic radicals and their organizations are receiving much support over there, and if I recall correctly the Palestinian people chose Hamas (A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION) to represent them in their first democratic elections.
Their aggressiveness just made us more angry, and I don't think they deserve to have every piece of land they want.
My issue Shadowolf is the needlessness of building settlements in the West Bank which at this stage, with their connecting highways, make a viable Palestinian state almost impossible. And Shadowolf surely you must understand why the Palestinians felt aggrieved at the birth of Israel and at what happened in 1948. The Jews have suffered greatly over the centuries but I don't think the Palestinians should have paid such a price for German crimes.Shadowolf wrote:
We know we can't have the whole of Israel, simply because the Palestinian population is becoming pretty large, and making them go *poof* is impossible.
And you have to understand that each time the arabs initiated war against us, we fought back and claimed more land.
And the "poor" Palestinians aren't that poor.They themselves rejected the 1947 offer, and they supported their arabs neighbors in each and every war against us. The Islamic radicals and their organizations are receiving much support over there, and if I recall correctly the Palestinian people chose Hamas (A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION) to represent them in their first democratic elections.
Their aggressiveness just made us more angry, and I don't think they deserve to have every piece of land they want.
What price did they pay?CameronPoe wrote:
My issue Shadowolf is the needlessness of building settlements in the West Bank which at this stage, with their connecting highways, make a viable Palestinian state almost impossible. And Shadowolf surely you must understand why the Palestinians felt aggrieved at the birth of Israel and at what happened in 1948. The Jews have suffered greatly over the centuries but I don't think the Palestinians should have paid such a price for German crimes.Shadowolf wrote:
We know we can't have the whole of Israel, simply because the Palestinian population is becoming pretty large, and making them go *poof* is impossible.
And you have to understand that each time the arabs initiated war against us, we fought back and claimed more land.
And the "poor" Palestinians aren't that poor.They themselves rejected the 1947 offer, and they supported their arabs neighbors in each and every war against us. The Islamic radicals and their organizations are receiving much support over there, and if I recall correctly the Palestinian people chose Hamas (A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION) to represent them in their first democratic elections.
Their aggressiveness just made us more angry, and I don't think they deserve to have every piece of land they want.
They had enough land to populate their people, its not like they needed every bit of Israel.
And just so you know, many lands were bought by early Zionists, and the Palestinian community were more than happy to sell the land to us.
And we had our eyes on Israel back in the 1890's, the Holocaust just made people more aware that an Israeli state is the only place we can life without fear of anti-semetism.
Sadly, rising anti-semetism in Europe proves this.
What price? Hundreds of thousands lost their homes and farms and now live in refugee camps in various countries!Shadowolf wrote:
What price did they pay?
They had enough land to populate their people, its not like they needed every bit of Israel.
And just so you know, many lands were bought by early Zionists, and the Palestinian community were more than happy to sell the land to us.
And we had our eyes on Israel back in the 1890's, the Holocaust just made people more aware that an Israeli state is the only place we can life without fear of anti-semetism.
Sadly, rising anti-semetism in Europe proves this.
To be precise about 5.78% of the total landmass of Palestine was owned by the Zionists/original Jewish inhabitants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_ … ip_by_type
Are you seriously telling me, in the midst of scores of Arab nations that want to destroy you, that you have found a place where you are 'free from anti-semitism'?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-22 13:41:13)
I can only say this really, the land is Israel's now and has been for a long time, live with it, its not going to change. If the 'poor' Palestinians attempted to make things better for themselves they wouldn't be in as bad a situation as they are. You shouldn't support a terrorist organisation thats one of the major enemies of a extremely powerful military force and expect to get royalty treatment for it. The Israelis managed to get on their feet in just over 60 years, if their neighbours hadn't try to act the big kid on the block they might be in the same position.
You're from the US right? Would you have taken that kind of viewpoint in 1775 when the all-powerful Brits held sway over the eastern seaboard of what is now the United States of America? The Palestinians may not know how to conduct an honourable military campaign but their cause is just, and just causes usually get just rewards.M.O.A.B wrote:
I can only say this really, the land is Israel's now and has been for a long time, live with it, its not going to change. If the 'poor' Palestinians attempted to make things better for themselves they wouldn't be in as bad a situation as they are. You shouldn't support a terrorist organisation thats one of the major enemies of a extremely powerful military force and expect to get royalty treatment for it. The Israelis managed to get on their feet in just over 60 years, if their neighbours hadn't try to act the big kid on the block they might be in the same position.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-22 14:26:36)
Woah woah woah woah...
What are we talking about again? Israel or Islam? (they both start with is, so I guess it's easy to get them mixed up)
What are we talking about again? Israel or Islam? (they both start with is, so I guess it's easy to get them mixed up)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Oh he knows that.....I hope. But it kills the "economic" argument when trying to explain that crap. So when people bring that up, I dismiss that as pure shit.Ilocano wrote:
You do realize that Bin Laden inherited millions from his father's construction company... he was living the playboy life in Beirut back in the 70's.B.Schuss wrote:
as long as people have jobs, and their kids a future, Islam has little chance to present any danger to western societies. Look at Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. Rich, happy people. No danger to anyone. They'd much rather sell you their oil, and in return buy your fancy sports cars, than chop your heads off.
As far as the cultural impact of muslims in western society is concerned, well, that's evolution. You can't stop that anyway. The world is a diverse place.
Last edited by usmarine2005 (2008-01-22 20:27:50)
If you believe in seperation of religion and state then why are you crying for a people that want their own religious state?CameronPoe wrote:
I don't quite think you're up on your knowledge of the situation in Israel/Palestine. HAMAS control GAZA. FATAH control what little the Israelis have left them of THE WEST BANK. I must correct you on your assertion regarding Hamas, an organisation I find despicable: they do not kill people just because they are not Arab - they kill whatever Israeli they can successfully launch something at. Hamas actually negotiated the release from captivity of BBC reporter Alan Johnston. Why didn't they cut his head off?M.O.A.B wrote:
The country is run by an openly terrorist group intent on killing civilians, one because they're not Arab, two because they're Jewish. I think I'd put a travel restriction on them as well especially when they're so hard to tell apart. You might not be able to cut-off the head of the snake, but you can starve it instead. If the Palestinians want to have everything restored they should learn not to support a terrorist group thats in control of their country. If they took a stand against Hezbollah everything would end up for the better in the end.
Now. I am not talking about travel restrictions in GAZA - I am talking about the concentration camps that have effectively been created in THE WEST BANK, which is controlled by a party that believes in a two state solution with a Palestinian state sitting peacefully alongside an Israeli state. Israel's policy in the West Bank is one of strangulation of the Palestinians to try and get to them to leave. It is absolutely impossible for the West Bank to have any kind of a prosperous economy - the only thing capable of normalising relations and leading to a two state solution. Israel are not interested in a two state solution you see. They'd rather visit many of the things their own kin had to suffer in the Warsaw Ghetto upon West Bank Palestinians because they want a Greater "Eretz Y'Israel".
All the Israelis have done in Palestine since the last century is take, take, take. All at the expense of the poor Palestinians.
http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ahdla8j.XB … estine.gif
I thought Moses said "Thou shalt not steal".
They don't want a religious state - they just want 'a' state!!Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
If you believe in seperation of religion and state then why are you crying for a people that want their own religious state?
Sitting and watching how radicals killing kids and doing nothing it is a crime! If so-called not-radical muslims don't want to fight their radicals then western armies must do it for them.
oh and...
oh and...
Its your fantasies Poe. Israel was created as religious state and its now a religious state. So please, stop brainwashing peoples with your fantasies!!!!CameronPoe wrote:
They don't want a religious state - they just want 'a' state!!
So basically you endorse an apartheid system where all of the Arab Israelis - bedouins and the citizens of towns like Nazareth - are second class citizens? If so then don't try and pretend that you are 'the only democracy in the middle east' ever again...Lisik wrote:
Its your fantasies Poe. Israel was created as religious state and its now a religious state. So please, stop brainwashing peoples with your fantasies!!!!CameronPoe wrote:
They don't want a religious state - they just want 'a' state!!
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-23 02:14:15)
Ok, just dont cry.
pfft, just like how Israel isn't a jewish state.CameronPoe wrote:
They don't want a religious state - they just want 'a' state!!Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
If you believe in seperation of religion and state then why are you crying for a people that want their own religious state?
Oh I'm sorry - I thought it was a 'pluralist democracy recognising all citizens as equal under the law'. My bad.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
pfft, just like how Israel isn't a jewish state.
Everybody makes mistakes. Its ok.CameronPoe wrote:
Oh I'm sorry - I thought it was a 'pluralist democracy recognising all citizens as equal under the law'. My bad.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
pfft, just like how Israel isn't a jewish state.
lolAjax_the_Great1 wrote:
Everybody makes mistakes. Its ok.CameronPoe wrote:
Oh I'm sorry - I thought it was a 'pluralist democracy recognising all citizens as equal under the law'. My bad.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
pfft, just like how Israel isn't a jewish state.
Nope I'm a British dude. I don't see direct and intentional targeting of civilians as 'just' either. But look at this way, the US is now best pals with the UK, they don't hold any grudges against us for what the British did there. Shame other countries can't seem to go the same way and just get over things.CameronPoe wrote:
You're from the US right? Would you have taken that kind of viewpoint in 1775 when the all-powerful Brits held sway over the eastern seaboard of what is now the United States of America? The Palestinians may not know how to conduct an honourable military campaign but their cause is just, and just causes usually get just rewards.M.O.A.B wrote:
I can only say this really, the land is Israel's now and has been for a long time, live with it, its not going to change. If the 'poor' Palestinians attempted to make things better for themselves they wouldn't be in as bad a situation as they are. You shouldn't support a terrorist organisation thats one of the major enemies of a extremely powerful military force and expect to get royalty treatment for it. The Israelis managed to get on their feet in just over 60 years, if their neighbours hadn't try to act the big kid on the block they might be in the same position.
There has been over 200 years to mend the old wounds. There has been 60 since the birth of Israel.M.O.A.B wrote:
Nope I'm a British dude. I don't see direct and intentional targeting of civilians as 'just' either. But look at this way, the US is now best pals with the UK, they don't hold any grudges against us for what the British did there. Shame other countries can't seem to go the same way and just get over things.
There was 800 for Ireland.CameronPoe wrote:
There has been over 200 years to mend the old wounds. There has been 60 since the birth of Israel.M.O.A.B wrote:
Nope I'm a British dude. I don't see direct and intentional targeting of civilians as 'just' either. But look at this way, the US is now best pals with the UK, they don't hold any grudges against us for what the British did there. Shame other countries can't seem to go the same way and just get over things.
800 years, and the goal is still the removal of the " British " state from Ireland, the difference is that the democratic process is the agreed method to bring about the Republic..M.O.A.B wrote:
There was 800 for Ireland.CameronPoe wrote:
There has been over 200 years to mend the old wounds. There has been 60 since the birth of Israel.M.O.A.B wrote:
Nope I'm a British dude. I don't see direct and intentional targeting of civilians as 'just' either. But look at this way, the US is now best pals with the UK, they don't hold any grudges against us for what the British did there. Shame other countries can't seem to go the same way and just get over things.
Police have been called to Limavady Borough Council's offices after a meeting had to be abandoned.
Officers were called to attend to reports of a disturbance and assault at the offices on Connell Street at about 2200 GMT on Tuesday.
It is understood a group of up to 50 protestors turned up for the meeting, where the issue of neutral spaces in council areas was being discussed.
Two Sinn Fein councillors said they were abused as they left the building.
The councillors, Anne Brolly and Marion Donaghy, said they were confronted by a crowd outside the council offices.
"There was a particularly nasty mood among the young men who were there," Ms Brolly said.
"They spat on us and they were very vitriolic and made obscene comments and threats to us.
"When we got into the car one man threw a Union Jack over it and shouted obscenities at us."
Limavady mayor Edwin Stevenson said he had no hesitation in condemning what had happened, but said it was too early to discuss the removal of emblems.
"If Sinn Fein had really been interested in accepting everyone's culture, I think this would be much better left for a future date," he said.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-01-23 05:56:33)
Wasn't that long ago when they were using bombs, AK's and hits on certain individuals. Still don't see why its so imperavtive to get Northern Ireland back with the South the countries both do well individually so what's the point exactly.IG-Calibre wrote:
800 years, and the goal is still the removal of the " British " state from Ireland, the difference is that the democratic process is the agreed method to bring about the Republic..M.O.A.B wrote:
There was 800 for Ireland.CameronPoe wrote:
There has been over 200 years to mend the old wounds. There has been 60 since the birth of Israel.