Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7161|Uhh... erm...
Being a Muslim myself (albeit not a particularly religious one ), I really need to answer some of these questions.

--

When Islam was in its early stages, and the pagans of Mecca were opposing him, they asked him how they could be sure he was not making things up. The next few revelations after that contained phrases that were unheard of in Arabia. When he was asked what they meant, he simply replied "I do not know. I am merely relaying what Allah has told me. Only He knows the true meaning."

Furthermore, in Arabic, all the verses are written in a very poetic form. Nearly all the sentences in any one verse ends in the same rhythm. This is something that would be nearly impossible for Muhammad to accomplish, considering he lacked the ability to read or write.

--

The reason the Sunnis and Shiites clash is because as far as I know, Shiitism believes that Muhammad's cousin, Ali bin Abu Talib, was meant to become the messenger of Allah, rather than Muhammad himself. You can imagine the uproar that caused in the day. It'd be like a bunch of Christians saying that Ben-Hur should have been the prophet of Christianity rather than well, Christ. Also, the Five Pillars of Islam, the tasks which every Muslim must accomplish regardless of what sect they belong to, includes praying at 5 designated times a day. As Shiites only pray 3 times a day, most other Muslims consider them to be (for lack of a better word) deviants of sorts.

--

I personally believe that a true Muslim must follow the spirit of the Quranic verses and think about why certain instructions and restrictions were made in the book. For example, Muslim men are not allowed to wear gold on any part of their body. Can we wear platinum, though? I should think not. Following the Quran literally is what's causing this mess in Islam.

--

To answer someone's question a few pages ago, no, you do not get any amount of virgins when you kill an 'infidel'. All the suicide bombers who spread nothing but Islamophobia aren't getting their own personal harem in the afterlife. They're getting scorched by jet-black flames and being tortured in ways that would make Hitler jealous. There's a scripture in the Quran that quite specifically says when you kill yourself in any manner, you're considered 'murtad'; left Islam. And since you can't repent once you're dead, all the so-called 'martyrs' are really just screwing themselves over on an epic scale.

--

That's all for now, because I'm too lazy to type anymore paragraphs. If you have questions, just tell me.
Sonata
Member
+3|6361

Mek-Izzle wrote:

It boils down to belief. Simply speaking, do you really beleive that Muhammad got a message from God. Who's to say he wasn't making it up?

What makes Muhammad so different from the thousands of people everyday throughout history who claim to have had contact with God?

Why was it that some people beleive Muhammad in the first place? He must've been a very convincing public speaker. I just don't understand why people beleive what he claims to have happened to him. It's not even realistic...

And if you say he was defending himself from Criminals, what about the Muslims who attacked and conquered the Middle East and eventually half of India and then alot of South East Asia, and Spain and so many other places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Why did they attack so many countries?
There are a lot of things that make Muhammad different and prove that he is really a Messenger.

I'll tell you some:

- He was unable to read & write,, but he told us  true stories about the past. ( How did he know them?? surely from God )
-He told about future ,, about some events that will happen ,, and they just happened exactly as what Muhammad said. ( how did he know some of future ?? )
-He was protected.
-He came with Quran ,, and this Quran is the greatest proof.
Sonata
Member
+3|6361
And please guys don't talk about what some Muslims did,, as you say why do they attack why do they hate,,,

People may do wrong things,, so we shouldn't judge Islam by Muslim,, we should judge Muslims by Islam.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7031|132 and Bush

The Banu Qurayza surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while all the women and children were enslaved.

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Quray … the_Trench

The Banu Qurayza reportedly also agreed with the appointment of Sa'ad ibn Mua'dh. Sa'd ibn Mua'dh pronounced that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment. According to Irving Zeitlin, this massacre was unprecedented in the Arabian Peninsula.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Nomiss
Member
+1|6356|Sweden

Sonata wrote:

There are a lot of things that make Muhammad different and prove that he is really a Messenger.

I'll tell you some:

- He was unable to read & write,, but he told us  true stories about the past. ( How did he know them?? surely from God )
-He told about future ,, about some events that will happen ,, and they just happened exactly as what Muhammad said. ( how did he know some of future ?? )
-He was protected.
-He came with Quran ,, and this Quran is the greatest proof.
Damn, that really is good proof... Or not.
How do you know that he was unable to read and write?
How do you know that he was protected?
How do you know that the Quran is true?

You know, I saw some ancient Egyptian paintings, and they prove that you're wrong!
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7051|London, England

Sonata wrote:

Mek-Izzle wrote:

It boils down to belief. Simply speaking, do you really beleive that Muhammad got a message from God. Who's to say he wasn't making it up?

What makes Muhammad so different from the thousands of people everyday throughout history who claim to have had contact with God?

Why was it that some people beleive Muhammad in the first place? He must've been a very convincing public speaker. I just don't understand why people beleive what he claims to have happened to him. It's not even realistic...

And if you say he was defending himself from Criminals, what about the Muslims who attacked and conquered the Middle East and eventually half of India and then alot of South East Asia, and Spain and so many other places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Why did they attack so many countries?
There are a lot of things that make Muhammad different and prove that he is really a Messenger.

I'll tell you some:

- He was unable to read & write,, but he told us  true stories about the past. ( How did he know them?? surely from God )
-He told about future ,, about some events that will happen ,, and they just happened exactly as what Muhammad said. ( how did he know some of future ?? )
-He was protected.
-He came with Quran ,, and this Quran is the greatest proof.
Considering how great a military leader he was. I find that hard to beleive.

I think he played everyone for a fool. That's why I think, but I'm not going to say anything if you and others beleive him. That's not my choice. I just think that people should think more realistically about the events that happened.
Rabbit.v2
Banned
+186|6958|stalker.

Sonata wrote:

There are a lot of things that make Muhammad different and prove that he is really a Messenger.

I'll tell you some:

- He was unable to read & write,, but he told us  true stories about the past. ( How did he know them?? surely from God )
-He told about future ,, about some events that will happen ,, and they just happened exactly as what Muhammad said. ( how did he know some of future ?? )
-He was protected.
-He came with Quran ,, and this Quran is the greatest proof.
Oh my fucking non-existing god, how can you know for sure?

By reading some book that i could have written myself?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6985

Kmarion wrote:

The Banu Qurayza surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while all the women and children were enslaved.

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Quray … the_Trench

The Banu Qurayza reportedly also agreed with the appointment of Sa'ad ibn Mua'dh. Sa'd ibn Mua'dh pronounced that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment. According to Irving Zeitlin, this massacre was unprecedented in the Arabian Peninsula.
If it was genuinely religiously motivated they would have slayed them instantly but...

Ibn Ishaq recorded that after Muhammad arrived in Medina in 622, he established a compact, the Constitution of Medina, which committed the Jewish and Muslim tribes to mutual cooperation. The nature of this document as recorded by Ibn Ishaq and transmitted by Ibn Hisham is the subject of dispute among modern historians, many of whom maintain that this "treaty" is possibly a collage of agreements, of different dates, and that it is not clear when they were made.
Sonata
Member
+3|6361
If you guys ask me to give proofs that I'm right,, give me proofs that I'm wrong.

Last edited by Sonata (2008-02-05 10:59:45)

usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7192

Meh....islam.
Nomiss
Member
+1|6356|Sweden

Sonata wrote:

If you guys ask me for proofs that I'm right,, give me proofs that I'm wrong.
God doesn't exist.
If the Quran is enough proof for you, that should be enough for you too.
It's just text. One text doesn't prove ANYTHING.
Rabbit.v2
Banned
+186|6958|stalker.

Sonata wrote:

If you guys ask me for proofs that I'm right,, give me proofs that I'm wrong.
You pathetic fuck, there's no proof that ''God'' actually exists.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7031|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The Banu Qurayza surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while all the women and children were enslaved.

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Quray … the_Trench

The Banu Qurayza reportedly also agreed with the appointment of Sa'ad ibn Mua'dh. Sa'd ibn Mua'dh pronounced that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment. According to Irving Zeitlin, this massacre was unprecedented in the Arabian Peninsula.
If it was genuinely religiously motivated they would have slayed them instantly but...

Ibn Ishaq recorded that after Muhammad arrived in Medina in 622, he established a compact, the Constitution of Medina, which committed the Jewish and Muslim tribes to mutual cooperation. The nature of this document as recorded by Ibn Ishaq and transmitted by Ibn Hisham is the subject of dispute among modern historians, many of whom maintain that this "treaty" is possibly a collage of agreements, of different dates, and that it is not clear when they were made.
This is their prophet we are talking about. I'm just getting warmed up. What he did in Mecca is next.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7161|Uhh... erm...

Rabbit.v2 wrote:

Sonata wrote:

If you guys ask me for proofs that I'm right,, give me proofs that I'm wrong.
You pathetic fuck, there's no proof that ''God'' actually exists.
Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...

Last edited by Tetrino (2008-02-05 11:08:21)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6985

Kmarion wrote:

This is their prophet we are talking about. I'm just getting warmed up. What he did in Mecca is next.
In case you didn't realise, just like King David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses and Jesus, he was just an ordinary bloke with political power at the time. He wasn't actually communicating with a higher being.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-02-05 11:10:22)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7051|London, England

Sonata wrote:

If you guys ask me to give proofs that I'm right,, give me proofs that I'm wrong.
It's more believable to think that someone hasn't read the future, and hasn't been spoken to God and hasn't done all the things Muhammad has claimed he has done.

Like I said, it boils down to belief. You can either beleive it, or you can choose to not, for whatever reason. My reason being that it really isn't plausable and that there isn't enough evidence.

When something happens. Generally speaking you provide proof for it happening. Or it didn't happen. That's how things have always been. Or at least that's how things are these days. You can't simply say "you have no proof it didn't happen", because that's just not how things work. You provide proof for something, or simply put. Nobody will beleive you.

That's my opinion.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7031|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

This is their prophet we are talking about. I'm just getting warmed up. What he did in Mecca is next.
In case you didn't realise, just like King David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses and Jesus, he was just an ordinary bloke with political power at the time. He wasn't actually communicating with a higher being.
Muslims believe he was a messenger of God. (through the angel Gabriel)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7192

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
Yes there is.  Have you ever seen him/her?
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7161|Uhh... erm...

usmarine wrote:

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
Yes there is.  Have you ever seen him/her?
Just because something cannot be seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist. No one can see gravity, but we're still anchored to the ground, aren't we?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7051|London, England
I hate when people say that. Look, in the real world. You provide proof for something which you claim exists/happens or nobody will beleive you. It's perfectly plausible if say....someone said they saw an Alien, and nobody believed them because they had no proof. Whereas, it's not really plausible to say "you have no proof that I didn't see it"
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7192

Tetrino wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
Yes there is.  Have you ever seen him/her?
Just because something cannot be seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist. No one can see gravity, but we're still anchored to the ground, aren't we?
Well gravity is not a human being.  You can prove gravity since you can take it away also.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6972|Outer Space

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
Tell me this, why SHOULD god exist? What would be it's purpose?
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7161|Uhh... erm...

Mek-Izzle wrote:

I hate when people say that. Look, in the real world. You provide proof for something which you claim exists/happens or nobody will beleive you. It's perfectly plausible if say....someone said they saw an Alien, and nobody believed them because they had no proof. Whereas, it's not really plausible to say "you have no proof that I didn't see it"
Point taken. However, in the same way that scientists still search for the cure for cancer which has yet to be found, I will choose to continue to believe in God, whose existence in your eyes has yet to be proven.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7259|Grapevine, TX

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
QFE
Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and being certain of what we do not see
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7161|Uhh... erm...

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Tetrino wrote:

Show me the proof that God doesn't exist.

Oh, wait, there isn't any...
Tell me this, why SHOULD god exist? What would be it's purpose?
I'm afraid I don't know how to answer this question. Who am I to dictate the purposes of God?

On another note, just as some of you believe that God doesn't exist, and some others and I believe there is, and neither side has enough evidence to convince each other otherwise, let's drop that aspect of the debate and return to what you guys want to know about Islam, which I shall try my best to answer.

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