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2008-02-05 16:35:59
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6984

lowing wrote:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23160648-12377,00.html


Mother Fucker!!!.........Where in the fuckin' world can Cam and his fuckin' groupies sign up for this peaceful religion?

Bunch of fuckin' animals
lol

Why would I want a) to become a Muslim and b) to become a Muslim where Sharia law is practised?

Honestly, some people seem not to realise that a) I'm a pretty hardcore atheist and b) what happens within a distant country's borders, whilst being worthy of derisory comment, is no business of mine and not really that important to me (given that it is a foreign domestic cultural norm that doesn't impact on my life one iota). This is part of the culture of Iran and parts of Nigeria & Pakistan, etc. They need to grow out of this. Modern progressive Islam is not like this and that is what's important. This does not affect the west in any way, shape or form so, whilst worthy of a 'That's deplorable.', one can acknowledge that thankfully the only Islamic Republic in the world is that of Iran (and to a certain extent northern Nigeria) and their laws impact on no-one but themselves - through THEIR OWN CHOOSING. The fact is that the formation of an Islamic Republic in Iran with massive popular support should be accepted, even though we may find Sharia law archaic - they chose it so live and let live. Political evolution is a slow process. The west is on one side, Amazon tribes on the other - Iran is somewhere in between.
2008-02-05 16:36:03
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

usmarine wrote:

I think you people miss the point of lowing and some of us.  You guys keep thinking we think it is all muslims or something.  Funny, but no.  What pisses me off is I see no outrage from muslims over this stuff.  I do not see demonstrations over shit like this.  But oh no if we do something, then all hell breaks loose.
Muslims must prove that they don't approve of this type of behavior?  Just Muslims on here, or Muslims in the U.S., or what?  Regardless, out of sight does not mean it does not exist (Muslims denouncing this type of barbaric thought/practice).  Will you let them know how much demonstration is enough to appease (uh oh!) you?

Westboro Baptists - not Christianity, despite inference.  How many Christians do we need to organize and demonstrate before we realize this?
I hear more crying and moaning about a girl in Canada who could not play in her sports tournament because she would not take off her traditional clothing and follow the rules.  Yet I did not hear a peep when girls get stoned or have their vagina's mutilated.

And why are you comparing religions?  What does that have to do with anything I am saying?  If you haven't learned yet, I do not care for any religion.
2008-02-05 16:36:36
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7080|USA

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine wrote:

djphetal wrote:

just pointing out that these actions do not equal the religion.
I never said it did.  I am saying keep your stoning shit in your own damn countries.  You can worship whatever stupid shit you want for all I care.  You get it?  You see what I am saying?  yes?  no?
USmarine, do you HONESTLY think that ANY of us agree with stoning?

It is beyond me as to how some of you think.  The fact that I disagree with lowings policy of referring to all muslims as animals and advocate nuking the middle east doesn't mean I want to let the nutjobs who stone and oppress women to live among us.

I'll go find that thread where someone made the point I'm trying to make now.  Islam is not the problem.  The problem is that these people (in the middle east and elsewhere) are living in conditions and cultures you and I can't even fathom.  They've never known what it's like to be free, never known what it's like to live a rich life full of meaning.  So what do they do?  They do what any other person would do in their situation.  They turn to religion to answer all their questions.  Not saying it's right, not saying I agree with it. 

Radical islam is the RESULT of the middle easts problems, not the CAUSE of them. 

That's all I'm saying.
Is that all you are saying??!!. I defy you to show me where I have advocated the killing of all Muslims. I dare you, I tripple dog fuckin dare you!!.  I am against this religion, I am not saying nor have I ever said anything other than this religion is violent and intolerable. I never said all Muslims are terrorisists or we should kill them all.

I will accept your apology with your retraction.
2008-02-05 16:39:00
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7080|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23160648-12377,00.html


Mother Fucker!!!.........Where in the fuckin' world can Cam and his fuckin' groupies sign up for this peaceful religion?

Bunch of fuckin' animals
lol

Why would I want a) to become a Muslim and b) to become a Muslim where Sharia law is practised?

Honestly, some people seem not to realise that a) I'm a pretty hardcore atheist and b) what happens within a distant country's borders, whilst being worthy of derisory comment, is no business of mine and not really that important to me (given that it is a foreign domestic cultural norm that doesn't impact on my life one iota). This is part of the culture of Iran and parts of Nigeria & Pakistan, etc. They need to grow out of this. Modern progressive Islam is not like this and that is what's important. This does not affect the west in any way, shape or form so, whilst worthy of a 'That's deplorable.', one can acknowledge that thankfully the only Islamic Republic in the world is that of Iran (and to a certain extent northern Nigeria) and their laws impact on no-one but themselves - through THEIR OWN CHOOSING. The fact is that the formation of an Islamic Republic in Iran with massive popular support should be accepted, even though we may find Sharia law archaic - they chose it so live and let live. Political evolution is a slow process. The west is on one side, Amazon tribes on the other - Iran is somewhere in between.
You do not care about shit in distant borders??? I guess Ireland is closer to the US and Israel than I thought.
2008-02-05 16:40:25
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6984

lowing wrote:

You do not care about shit in distant borders??? I guess Ireland is closer to the US and Israel than I thought.
The emboldened word 'within' is the key. Issues that transgress borders I care about...

Transgression of borders anywhere does not a happy European isolationist make (especially when those transgressions are unjust)...

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-02-05 16:42:44)

2008-02-05 16:41:08
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6920|Northern California

lowing wrote:

1. It is funny how you have to go all the way back to the Crusades to find a comparison of Islam to Christianity. How about this? You wanna compare...Let us compare apples for apples the teachings of Muhammad with the teachings of Jesus... I fuckin dare ya!!.
Did God not direct Moses/Joshua into Canaan to retake the land and wipe all off it?  And I didn't mention the crusades, but I will now since they did happen. Go watch "Kingdom of God" and tell me who you think had more of a right to that land...the people living there, or the imported imperialists?  But yeah, I know, I know, it was centuries ago..this is now.  Hitler should cover the present.

lowing wrote:

2. Nope this is what you and others like you claim. This behavior is such a minority of the billions of Muslims in the world, yet those billions of Muslim do not do shit to right archaic wrongs such as this bullshit.
I think there is actually only 1 billion muslims.  What exactly can you use to substantiate your claim that they're not doing anything to right the wrongs those handfuls of extremists are doing?  WOuld it be fair to say they're doing about as much as lawful citizens in our inner city neighborhood who are scared to tell police they witnessed a drive-by shooting?  Maybe they're doing about as much as American Christians are about the Westborough Baptists indoctrinating their parishioners with hate?

lowing wrote:

3. What you fail to understand, or refuse to since it nullifies your arguments against mine is this. I am not talking about people. I am talking about a religion and the teachings and practices of it. I have never not once said all Muslims suck or should be killed or rounded up and put in concentration camps like I am accused of. I say this religion is intolerant, and violent. It has been proven it is both. All you need to do is distinguish the difference. as far as the "fuckin' animals" comment? I stand by it, for all who condemned these women and all who support this sentence and all who carry it out, ARE FUCKIN ANIMALS.
You "don't" suggest all muslims are animals and that their entire religion is evil?  yet so many replies calling your bluff?  You do say it (the religion as a whole) is not tolerant and is violent?  And that's based one what accurate cross sampling you've conducted?

Please try and be honest with yourself.  I think your anger/hate for the actions of a misrepresented group of animals is diluting your ability to rationalize.
2008-02-05 17:00:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7080|USA

IRONCHEF wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. It is funny how you have to go all the way back to the Crusades to find a comparison of Islam to Christianity. How about this? You wanna compare...Let us compare apples for apples the teachings of Muhammad with the teachings of Jesus... I fuckin dare ya!!.
Did God not direct Moses/Joshua into Canaan to retake the land and wipe all off it?  And I didn't mention the crusades, but I will now since they did happen. Go watch "Kingdom of God" and tell me who you think had more of a right to that land...the people living there, or the imported imperialists?  But yeah, I know, I know, it was centuries ago..this is now.  Hitler should cover the present.

lowing wrote:

2. Nope this is what you and others like you claim. This behavior is such a minority of the billions of Muslims in the world, yet those billions of Muslim do not do shit to right archaic wrongs such as this bullshit.
I think there is actually only 1 billion muslims.  What exactly can you use to substantiate your claim that they're not doing anything to right the wrongs those handfuls of extremists are doing?  WOuld it be fair to say they're doing about as much as lawful citizens in our inner city neighborhood who are scared to tell police they witnessed a drive-by shooting?  Maybe they're doing about as much as American Christians are about the Westborough Baptists indoctrinating their parishioners with hate?

lowing wrote:

3. What you fail to understand, or refuse to since it nullifies your arguments against mine is this. I am not talking about people. I am talking about a religion and the teachings and practices of it. I have never not once said all Muslims suck or should be killed or rounded up and put in concentration camps like I am accused of. I say this religion is intolerant, and violent. It has been proven it is both. All you need to do is distinguish the difference. as far as the "fuckin' animals" comment? I stand by it, for all who condemned these women and all who support this sentence and all who carry it out, ARE FUCKIN ANIMALS.
You "don't" suggest all muslims are animals and that their entire religion is evil?  yet so many replies calling your bluff?  You do say it (the religion as a whole) is not tolerant and is violent?  And that's based one what accurate cross sampling you've conducted?

Please try and be honest with yourself.  I think your anger/hate for the actions of a misrepresented group of animals is diluting your ability to rationalize.
1. I said compare the teaching of JESUS with that of Muhammad. Christians follow ( supposedly) the techings of Christ. Hence the term. Not too many Christians around during Moses's day.

2. These women are going to be stoned based on the LAW OF ISLAM and the country. That is pretty much covers a lot of warped beliefs. It isn't some small renagade action it is their law. See the difference? Also do you preally think I can not post example after example of such Islamic brutality?

3. I said I am against this religion and its fucked up beliefs. I will stand by that. Now start searching and tell me where I condone killing of all Muslims or I say that all of them are terrorists. Stop side stepping it and post it
2008-02-05 17:01:43
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6874|The Land of Scott Walker

IRONCHEF wrote:

WOuld it be fair to say they're doing about as much as lawful citizens in our inner city neighborhood who are scared to tell police they witnessed a drive-by shooting?  Maybe they're doing about as much as American Christians are about the Westborough Baptists indoctrinating their parishioners with hate?
I'm sure they're scared in countries ruled by Sharia, but Muslims in the west have no such excuse.  CAIR is not jumping around on the news to condemn these stonings, but they have plenty of time to howl when they're criticized for supporting terrorism ...

https://www.anti-cair-net.org/WhosFundingCAIR.jpg

Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-02-05 17:04:02)

2008-02-05 17:03:06
Lynx14
Member
+41|6400
Just so we are all clear here being an extremist doesn't apply just to the islamic religion there are plenty of extremists in other religions that do tons of weird shit. We don't need predjudices.
2008-02-05 17:07:07
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

Lynx14 wrote:

Just so we are all clear here being an extremist doesn't apply just to the islamic religion there are plenty of extremists in other religions that do tons of weird shit. We don't need predjudices.
read the thread next time
2008-02-05 17:15:23
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7145

Lynx14 wrote:

Just so we are all clear here being an extremist doesn't apply just to the islamic religion there are plenty of extremists in other religions that do tons of weird shit. We don't need predjudices.
Ok... now i'm all clear... lol...   Gonna keep an eye out for the Amish Jihad...
Love is the answer
2008-02-05 17:23:45
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6909|Somewhere else

Every religeon has been altered, or adapted as centuries go by. This stoning incident, being Islamic law, is Iran interpretation of that religeon.  Christianity has several sects. Im sure, based on the obvious fact that stoning is rare enough to make global headlines, that most muslims no longer follow this belief, or refuse to acknowledge it in thier teachings.

Whil I agree this act is sick, and the religeon that promotes it is, but you cannot blame all Islamic religeon based upon one' nation's abuse of the religeon.   It's difficult to persecute a religeon because some people, to this day, hold on to some sick virtues.   I'm sure christianity has a few things in it's past that is no longer practiced due to it being realised as barbaric. 

The simple fact that some people of the Islamic faith choose to hold on to these sick aspects, really shouldn't be blamed on Islam as a whole.  one person's belief in islam could differ GREATLY from another.

Who also says every Iranian cirtizen approves of this?

-------uh-oh, lights flickering, bad storm, i oul;wd say more but its abotu to go out here.---------

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2008-02-05 17:24:20)

2008-02-05 17:25:32
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

I do not see anyone saying every muslim approves of this?  However, I can blame islam, since I blame religion for a shit ton of things.
2008-02-05 17:27:59
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

It would be nice if you guys would stop regurgitating the same shit about islam and comparing it to other religions.  We do not need to hear it every 3rd post.  Try and talk about islam...since that is what we are talking about.  Try and talk about these poor girls.  Try and show me some compassion for these girls, and MANY others like them.
2008-02-05 17:36:04
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6909|Somewhere else

usmarine wrote:

It would be nice if you guys would stop regurgitating the same shit about islam and comparing it to other religions.  We do not need to hear it every 3rd post.  Try and talk about islam...since that is what we are talking about.  Try and talk about these poor girls.  Try and show me some compassion for these girls, and MANY others like them.
Others religeons have followers that are guilty of dark shit too.  That's all were saying.  Why hate JUST ONE because a percentage of the followers are sick and fucked up?  And why hate the entire religeon when its a fraction of the followers doing this?  That's what we are saying.

Plus, the OP wasn't merely trying to talk about these poors girls, and trying to show compassion.  That's why it evolved into more.

But yes, It's terrible unfortunate this happens, and hopefully sometimes soon, it will change.

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2008-02-05 17:42:17)

2008-02-05 17:50:18
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|7096

Spearhead wrote:

The problem is that these people (in the middle east and elsewhere) are living in conditions and cultures you and I can't even fathom.  They've never known what it's like to be free, never known what it's like to live a rich life full of meaning.  So what do they do?  They do what any other person would do in their situation.  They turn to religion to answer all their questions.  Not saying it's right, not saying I agree with it. 

Radical islam is the RESULT of the middle easts problems, not the CAUSE of them. 

That's all I'm saying.
What about the honor killings in the UK, US, Canada, and Sweden?  I don't think those particular individuals were living in unfathomable conditions.

Last edited by Ilocano (2008-02-05 18:01:43)

2008-02-05 17:50:59
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7073
not very honorable
2008-02-05 17:56:29
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

I saw some of you comparing abortion clinic violence.  Hundreds of women every year are killed due to honor killings.  So if we try and compare, the ratio would be something like 1 abortion clinic for every 800 honor killings for example.  I would like to see neither, but I cannot see comparing the two.

Last edited by usmarine (2008-02-05 17:56:51)

2008-02-05 18:22:20
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6874|The Land of Scott Walker
Get off the PC and get to the basement Rooster!!!!

These 10 points summarize the issue for me:

1. There are many nice Muslims who do not support killing people for adultery, apostasy, etc.
2. There are not nice Muslims who do support killing people for adultery, apostasy, etc ... backed by the majority of Islamic scholars.
3. The nice Muslims are afraid and/or unwilling to condemn the murderous acts.
4. Understand why Muslims in the Middle East would be afraid to stand up against Sharia law, lest they be labeled in violation as well and suffer.
5. Do not hate all Muslims, there are the nice Muslims that I know in my community.
6. Do not understand why nice Muslims in the West do not stand up against Sharia law while safe away from Sharia's condemnation.
7. Cannot stand people who murder innocent people.
8. Cannot understand a religion whose teachings support murdering innocent people for leaving said religion.
9. Hope that the nice modern Muslims and their scholars (who do not believe Islam teaches to kill adulterers and apostates) increase their influence.
10.Thinking Islam is a religion of peace because there are nice modern Muslims is a big mistake.
2008-02-05 18:24:17
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|7104|Florida, United States

Here's one thing I'm not getting.  I've seen both Lowing and USM post about how they don't like nor understand why normal, peaceful Muslims aren't protesting the radicals.  There are lots of reasons behind this as far as I can see.

The main reason is this.  I think we can all agree that Islam permeates in some of the poorest nations in the world (see Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan, etc.).  I think we can also agree that the people in those countries are very poor and probably struggling to make ends meet.  So why do you expect to see them protesting in the streets when they could be earning money to survive?  Google search some Indonesia villages and tell me they don't look like they've just been hit by a few Katrina's.  That's because they're piss poor.  The people there don't have the time nor the resources to waste by protesting the radicals.  Are you going to blame the peaceful Muslim majority now for being too poor to find time to protest their extremist brothers?

Also, you might tell me that Iran is not as poor as other Muslim nations and that there is little protesting there.  Quite simply put, Iran is a democratic dictatorship whose ruler supports the radicals.  The last thing I'd be caught doing is protesting my leader's faith when I know very well what will happen to me for doing so.  So I suppose fear is another element explaining the lack of anti-radical activism among peaceful Muslims.

Last edited by Havok (2008-02-05 18:27:03)

2008-02-05 18:26:43
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

Havok wrote:

Are you going to blame the peaceful Muslim majority now for being too poor to find time to protest their extremist brothers?
Too poor to find time?  What?
2008-02-05 18:29:03
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|7104|Florida, United States

usmarine wrote:

Havok wrote:

Are you going to blame the peaceful Muslim majority now for being too poor to find time to protest their extremist brothers?
Too poor to find time?  What?
When you're as poor as many of the peaceful Muslims, you don't waste time on futile protesting.  You spend your time working, praying, or sleeping, with a few exceptions of course.  Protesting takes free time, and many Muslims can't sacrifice the potential working hours to do so.
2008-02-05 18:31:32
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7135

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Iran is not the only country that is ruled under Islamic Sharia law ...
Muslims arent the only people who murder in the name of their god...
Exactly.  The problem is not the religion itself.  The problem is the fanatical mindset of the en ire middle east.  They're stuck with a medieval mentality regarding life in general.  Occurrences such a these would be  everyday occurrences in Medieval Europe.  This is pretty much the way the world would be if everybody took the Bible literally.  In a book that big, there's ways to justify just about anything.  There needs to be a change in the way religion is perceived and taught in the middle east.  The problem is that there is not one strong, centralized church to change all the policies like there was with most of Christianity, so each country would have to enact its own reformation.
2008-02-05 18:32:56
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6874|The Land of Scott Walker

Havok wrote:

Also, you might tell me that Iran is not as poor as other Muslim nations and that there is little protesting there.  Quite simply put, Iran is a democratic dictatorship whose ruler supports the radicals.  The last thing I'd be caught doing is protesting my leader's faith when I know very well what will happen to me for doing so.  So I suppose fear is another element explaining the lack of anti-radical activism among peaceful Muslims.
So do we have a realistic hope that the peaceful Muslims will overcome their brothers given your assessment?
2008-02-05 18:35:34
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7190

Havok wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Havok wrote:

Are you going to blame the peaceful Muslim majority now for being too poor to find time to protest their extremist brothers?
Too poor to find time?  What?
When you're as poor as many of the peaceful Muslims, you don't waste time on futile protesting.  You spend your time working, praying, or sleeping, with a few exceptions of course.  Protesting takes free time, and many Muslims can't sacrifice the potential working hours to do so.
hmmmm.... find time to pray 5 times a day.  Find time to smoke shisha.  Find time to dance in the streets after 9/11.  Find time to protest and burn flags because some prisoners had panties on their heads.

So, hundreds and hundreds of women get killed every year due to honor killings......no time to protest.

Some prisoners get panties put on their heads and they have time to protest.


Ok.  If you say so.

 

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