BF2S Forums Honest Abe

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Lincoln wanted reconciliation.  John Wilkes Booth was worse for the south than any United States Army.

This much I'll agree with.  Once the war was over, Lincoln had better ideas than Johnson by far.  I'm just arguing that the war never should've happened.

The south never should have fired on American soldiers.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No the majority of people in the south did not own slaves. But they supported it. Like most wars that are fought, they are fought for a cause.


Lincoln-Douglas debate:
October 15, 1858

That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.

Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio

September 17, 1859

I think Slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union.


October 15, 1858

And when this new principle [that African Americans were not covered by the phrase "all men are created equal"] -- this new proposition that no human being ever thought of three years ago, -- is brought forward, I combat it as having an evil tendency, if not an evil design; I combat it as having a tendency to dehumanize the negro -- to take away from him the right of ever striving to be a man. I combat it as being one of the thousand things constantly done in these days to prepare the public mind to make property, and nothing but property of the negro in all the States of the Union.

Lincoln To Henry L. Pierce
April 6, 1859

This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.

August 1, 1858

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.

He opened the eyes of a great many people... whether you are prepared to admit it or not.

I'm sure he would've been a lot less enthusiastic about abolition if he was part of an economy that depended on it.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

David.P wrote:

Kmar right and wrong are all a matter of perspective. Only thing true is death it solves all problems(other than where to build new cemeteries)

I see this issue very black and white. 

oath of enlistment

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"

there is only one wrong and you spell it C-S-A

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No the majority of people in the south did not own slaves. But they supported it. Like most wars that are fought, they are fought for a cause.


Lincoln-Douglas debate:
October 15, 1858

That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.

Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio

September 17, 1859

I think Slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union.


October 15, 1858

And when this new principle [that African Americans were not covered by the phrase "all men are created equal"] -- this new proposition that no human being ever thought of three years ago, -- is brought forward, I combat it as having an evil tendency, if not an evil design; I combat it as having a tendency to dehumanize the negro -- to take away from him the right of ever striving to be a man. I combat it as being one of the thousand things constantly done in these days to prepare the public mind to make property, and nothing but property of the negro in all the States of the Union.

Lincoln To Henry L. Pierce
April 6, 1859

This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.

August 1, 1858

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.

He opened the eyes of a great many people... whether you are prepared to admit it or not.

I'm sure he would've been a lot less enthusiastic about abolition if he was part of an economy that depended on it.

the south needs to quit acting like they arent a part of this country.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

David.P wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Being an indentured servant could actually be considered worse than being a slave.  Indentured servants (who were mostly white) were intentionally worked to death because the goal of the owner was to get everything you could out of the person before the debt was paid.

Actually it was punishable by death for doing that. Although most that did were let off because the Indentured servant had no family in America and was most likely poor to begin with, Making the "Owner" get of scot free.

Are we talking about 17th century indentured servants here?


I think its hilarious that you are actually trying to justify slavery

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

the south needs to quit acting like they arent a part of this country.

The North needs to quit acting like Lincoln is a saint.

Im from California.  Actually, I was born in Florida.   

but regardless...

The south needs to realize they lost the war.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

The south needs to realize they lost the war.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and I hate that.  We are 1 nation, not 50.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No the majority of people in the south did not own slaves. But they supported it. Like most wars that are fought, they are fought for a cause.


Lincoln-Douglas debate:
October 15, 1858

That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.

Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio

September 17, 1859

I think Slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union.


October 15, 1858

And when this new principle [that African Americans were not covered by the phrase "all men are created equal"] -- this new proposition that no human being ever thought of three years ago, -- is brought forward, I combat it as having an evil tendency, if not an evil design; I combat it as having a tendency to dehumanize the negro -- to take away from him the right of ever striving to be a man. I combat it as being one of the thousand things constantly done in these days to prepare the public mind to make property, and nothing but property of the negro in all the States of the Union.

Lincoln To Henry L. Pierce
April 6, 1859

This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.

August 1, 1858

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.

He opened the eyes of a great many people... whether you are prepared to admit it or not.

I'm sure he would've been a lot less enthusiastic about abolition if he was part of an economy that depended on it.

the south needs to quit acting like they arent a part of this country.

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and I hate that.  We are 1 nation, not 50.

We are 1 nation, but we are 50 different personalities.  This is why social policy should be strictly determined on a state level.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and I hate that.  We are 1 nation, not 50.

We are 1 nation, but we are 50 different personalities.  This is why social policy should be strictly determined on a state level.

we are more than 50 different personalities.  Ask the averag perspn southern california if they consider their lifestyles and beliefs similiar to the average northern californian.  East texan versus West Texan.  New York City vs Upstate.  If we start dividing among "personalities" these borders would have been over run by foreign militaries a long, long time ago.  Diversity makes strong nations stronger.  Thats why the CSA only last 4 years.   Too much into indidual "states rights"  and "im better than my neighbor" attitude.  Nothing like that ever lasts.  We tried the articles of confederation, didnt work.  Anyone who aims a weapon at the stars and stripes is an enemy of the constitution and deserves the most painful death.