PS. The FACT, that Islam is lagging behind the rest of the world in human rights, and tolerance, and does not fit into what the west has grown into also does not make me a racist.lowing wrote:
If by me choosing to live with people I have the most in common with, then I suppose everyone in Little Italy, Little Korea, Chinatown, Little Greece, Harlem, or any other racially distinct community is EQUALLY as racist or bigoted as I. Pretty much the whole world then I guessIG-Calibre wrote:
your hypocrisy is staggering Lowing, in other threads you Spew shite like Islam has no place in western society or in America and that it's a "Christian" country. yet this is completely against the law of the country in which you live which is completely an utterly against the Law's which govern your life mate. You would refuse to live in a community of black/Hispanic/whatever community for no other reason than your own prejudices, & than try to say you're the least bigoted person you know.. total LUZ..lowing wrote:
SenorToenails, has nailed right on the head.
I hold everyone to equal standards. I believe in equal opportunity, not equal results.
I do not believe in reverse discrimination. There is only discrimination. I think white people can be discriminated against just as well as any other minority group. If the standard is not met then the standard is not met. There should be no such thing as different standards for different people.
I believe there are double standards in society regarding race. I have posted as such.
I believe if you come to our country from a fucked up country, I will thank you not to bring the ideals and attitudes that fucked your country up to mine.
If, as an American I go to another country, I will conform to the standards and society of that country. Is it racist to expect the same in return?
I believe you should seek citizenship in your new country and adapt to your new society without expecting your host country to accommodate you in any way.
I do not believe in special treatment for special interest groups.
As a matter of fact, I think my attitude is the least racial or bigoted attitude I know. Any thing more or less than this would lean toward favoritism in one direction or another..
I defy you to show me in any of my posts from the past year and half that goes against these basic opinions of mine. If I post racial shit daily as you insist, it should be pretty easy to do
Also, you can adopt Christian based morality and values, as I have, and not be a Christian. I feel I am not being a hypocrite because I believe in equality, and Isalm clearly does not. If you wanna go out on a limb and say I am bigoted and racist, because I do not want the intolerance and religious predjudices that Islam brings to the table, there is nothing I can do about it. Safe to say that it is uttery rediculous to say I am intolerant because I do not entertain an intolerant culture or religion that clearly goes against equality for all.
Yes indeed, Norway like any other western country or state is racist in many ways.SenorToenails wrote:
You know Varegg, I did read your posts.Varegg wrote:
Yes, i still firmly believe lowing fits in the desciption imo, he degrades several races based on their religion.
And you clearly didn't read my last posts if you think i don't know the difference between a race and a religion.Speaking of reality, you and your kin are the ones that hamper them from living the American dream where everything is possible ... that is if you don't have the wrong skincolor. What would the US look like today if you didn't have immigration lowing ?That was implyed in lowings statement not mine, i don't think less of people based on color, race nor religion.lowing didn't degrade a race of people. Yet you insist that he did. Maybe you ought to reread these posts. But I can spell it out for you, if you like.He degrades an entire race and religion based on the actions of an minority, how is that not racism ?
According to you, this implies racism?I don't see any racism there. Where is the any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life? lowing said "Don't want to contribute? Don't stay". How is that any different from Norway's immigration laws?lowing wrote:
Then there is reality....
How about they go back to where they came from and do the everything you suggest? They do not assimilate into our society and do not care to.
Remember?I guess Norway must be racist, eh? Get real.Varegg wrote:
If a Somalian moved to Norway and refused to learn the language and wanted to exploit the system he would be sent back.
The rest of your post is really a semantics discussion. I have my opinion and you have yours - lets leave it at that or we'll have a 30 page discussion about a phrase we both perfectly well knows the meaning of.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
I guess I'll highlight a PM I sent to Iowing somewhere during this thread, while we were still in debate.
I guess this applies to alot of the people labelling and insulting in this thread. Respect his views, explain yours - there is no need to make idiotic remarks with that. Thank you.No problem, I guess I'd give it a shot to see if the general bashing of "muslim hater, racist, bigot" and so forth was actually credible to begin with. Turned out most people just don't have the patience to discuss a little further and imo, seeing your views explained clears up a lot to me that you're actually quite the reasonable man to talk to.
Lots of sheep on this forum.
inane little opines
I wouldn't call an anti-Islamic statement racist and i never have.FEOS wrote:
Can someone highlight in the definition Varegg provided where it says religion is counted as a race?Varegg wrote:
Legal definition of racismSenorToenails wrote:
Varegg, I suggest you keep your facts straight. You called him a racist, claiming that he had said racist things in this thread, and apparently others. Islam is not a race, just like how Catholic is not a race either. Now you claim that he "degrades and mocks both the race and religion". I think you don't understand what racism is, and you try to hide it behind thinly veiled condescension.
According to UN International Conventions, "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." [1] This definition does not make any difference between prosecutions based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the ethnicity and race remains debatable among anthropologists[2] According to British law, racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin"
I'll go ahead and highlight a statement which kind of hammers home my and SenorToenails' point:He makes comments about a religion whose followers consist of people of every broad racial category on the planet. So explain again how an anti-Islam statement is racist, please.Varegg wrote:
Yes, i still firmly believe lowing fits in the desciption imo, he degrades several races based on their religion.
And you clearly didn't read my last posts if you think i don't know the difference between a race and a religion.
What i call racist really shines kinda bright in just that highlighted statement, he makes comments about an religion in a way that underlying calls the people practicing the religion lesser beings.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
So people who bash scientology, are they racist?Varegg wrote:
What i call racist really shines kinda bright in just that highlighted statement, he makes comments about an religion in a way that underlying calls the people practicing the religion lesser beings.
scientology isnt a religion, no book.
oh ya....sry sir.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
scientology isnt a religion, no book.
If Scientology were a Religion they would be bigots, but it's not. They have no book duh. I already explained why it's not a Religion but some people quote what they want.usmarine wrote:
So people who bash scientology, are they racist?Varegg wrote:
What i call racist really shines kinda bright in just that highlighted statement, he makes comments about an religion in a way that underlying calls the people practicing the religion lesser beings.
Based on what?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I think its funny how a lot of atheists defend Islam a lot stronger than they would defend christianity.
I think you'll find the Atheists defend against people declaring Islam as 'evil' or to quote lowing 'fucked up backasswards religion' as much as they would if people were talking as strongly about any religion (inc Christianity). (And I mean by this making a serious attack/proposal rather than just some of the more general 'wipe religion of the map' posts in previous religion/atheist threads)
I have defended Islam as not as bad as some make out, but I have also said I think both Islam and Christianity are very similar and have the same fundamental faults.
I, and many of the other Atheists on here, have expressed dislike for religion in general and Christianity often specifically (as the main one in the west), but I don't support all out hatred to Islam, Christianity or any religion.
It ain't up to you to decide what is and what is not a religion.sergeriver wrote:
I already explained why it's not a Religion but some people quote what they want.
Fact is, I can bash what I want, unless it is islam. Then you people get your panties in a wad.
You are bashing 1.5 billion of peaceful people and maybe a few thousand radicals. God damnit don't you see it? Cmon dude.usmarine wrote:
It ain't up to you to decide what is and what is not a religion.sergeriver wrote:
I already explained why it's not a Religion but some people quote what they want.
Fact is, I can bash what I want, unless it is islam. Then you people get your panties in a wad.
wrong again. I bash the peaceful ones who do not speak out and do something about the radicals. I have more respect for the radicals tbh. At least they do not hide their true feelings.sergeriver wrote:
You are bashing 1.5 billion of peaceful people and maybe a few thousand radicals. God damnit don't you see it? Cmon dude.
NEWSFLASH LOWING - PEOPLE CAN HAVE MORALITY AND VALUES WITHOUT RELIGION!!!!! THIS IS WHY CHURCH AND STATE ARE SEPERATED FOR THE MOST PART IN WESTERN SOCIETY AND ALLWAYS WILL BE! now carry on with your bigoted rantings, but I think you really need help Lowing, honestly, these fascist tendencies including your final solution for Muslims that you haven't the balls to just come out and state (which you know you want to) are actually really offensive to the majority of people on the planet. I think you really need to get a bit of perspective try talking to any of the Millions & millions of Muslims who have lived in Western Society for hundreds of years and just get on with their lives, instead of viewing them all as Cave dwelling fanatics, which clearly they are not.. now rave on..lowing wrote:
PS. The FACT, that Islam is lagging behind the rest of the world in human rights, and tolerance, and does not fit into what the west has grown into also does not make me a racist.lowing wrote:
If by me choosing to live with people I have the most in common with, then I suppose everyone in Little Italy, Little Korea, Chinatown, Little Greece, Harlem, or any other racially distinct community is EQUALLY as racist or bigoted as I. Pretty much the whole world then I guessIG-Calibre wrote:
your hypocrisy is staggering Lowing, in other threads you Spew shite like Islam has no place in western society or in America and that it's a "Christian" country. yet this is completely against the law of the country in which you live which is completely an utterly against the Law's which govern your life mate. You would refuse to live in a community of black/Hispanic/whatever community for no other reason than your own prejudices, & than try to say you're the least bigoted person you know.. total LUZ..
I defy you to show me in any of my posts from the past year and half that goes against these basic opinions of mine. If I post racial shit daily as you insist, it should be pretty easy to do
Also, you can adopt Christian based morality and values, as I have, and not be a Christian. I feel I am not being a hypocrite because I believe in equality, and Isalm clearly does not. If you wanna go out on a limb and say I am bigoted and racist, because I do not want the intolerance and religious predjudices that Islam brings to the table, there is nothing I can do about it. Safe to say that it is uttery rediculous to say I am intolerant because I do not entertain an intolerant culture or religion that clearly goes against equality for all.
I bet you would speak out if your life were at risk. Don't be naive, these people are nutjobs and would kill anyone that speaks against them. Answer this: would you speak out if you were a Pakistani and wanted to do something about the Taleban? Be honest. I'll believe you dude.usmarine wrote:
wrong again. I bash the peaceful ones who do not speak out and do something about the radicals. I have more respect for the radicals tbh. At least they do not hide their true feelings.sergeriver wrote:
You are bashing 1.5 billion of peaceful people and maybe a few thousand radicals. God damnit don't you see it? Cmon dude.
I honestly had no idea I was raving.IG-Calibre wrote:
NEWSFLASH LOWING - PEOPLE CAN HAVE MORALITY AND VALUES WITHOUT RELIGION!!!!! THIS IS WHY CHURCH AND STATE ARE SEPERATED FOR THE MOST PART IN WESTERN SOCIETY AND ALLWAYS WILL BE! now carry on with your bigoted rantings, but I think you really need help Lowing, honestly, these fascist tendencies including your final solution for Muslims that you haven't the balls to just come out and state (which you know you want to) are actually really offensive to the majority of people on the planet. I think you really need to get a bit of perspective try talking to any of the Millions & millions of Muslims who have lived in Western Society for hundreds of years and just get on with their lives, instead of viewing them all as Cave dwelling fanatics, which clearly they are not.. now rave on..lowing wrote:
PS. The FACT, that Islam is lagging behind the rest of the world in human rights, and tolerance, and does not fit into what the west has grown into also does not make me a racist.lowing wrote:
If by me choosing to live with people I have the most in common with, then I suppose everyone in Little Italy, Little Korea, Chinatown, Little Greece, Harlem, or any other racially distinct community is EQUALLY as racist or bigoted as I. Pretty much the whole world then I guess
Also, you can adopt Christian based morality and values, as I have, and not be a Christian. I feel I am not being a hypocrite because I believe in equality, and Isalm clearly does not. If you wanna go out on a limb and say I am bigoted and racist, because I do not want the intolerance and religious predjudices that Islam brings to the table, there is nothing I can do about it. Safe to say that it is uttery rediculous to say I am intolerant because I do not entertain an intolerant culture or religion that clearly goes against equality for all.
As far as the rest of your post, it is not worth a response and I will let it speak for itself
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 bil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?sergeriver wrote:
I bet you would speak out if your life were at risk. Don't be naive, these people are nutjobs and would kill anyone that speaks against them. Answer this: would you speak out if you were a Pakistani and wanted to do something about the Taleban? Be honest. I'll believe you dude.usmarine wrote:
wrong again. I bash the peaceful ones who do not speak out and do something about the radicals. I have more respect for the radicals tbh. At least they do not hide their true feelings.sergeriver wrote:
You are bashing 1.5 billion of peaceful people and maybe a few thousand radicals. God damnit don't you see it? Cmon dude.
Last edited by usmarine (2008-02-18 11:31:25)
how can 1.5 billion not overwhelm "a few nutjobs"?....................if they wanted to that issergeriver wrote:
I bet you would speak out if your life were at risk. Don't be naive, these people are nutjobs and would kill anyone that speaks against them. Answer this: would you speak out if you were a Pakistani and wanted to do something about the Taleban? Be honest. I'll believe you dude.usmarine wrote:
wrong again. I bash the peaceful ones who do not speak out and do something about the radicals. I have more respect for the radicals tbh. At least they do not hide their true feelings.sergeriver wrote:
You are bashing 1.5 billion of peaceful people and maybe a few thousand radicals. God damnit don't you see it? Cmon dude.
Last edited by lowing (2008-02-18 11:31:44)
How do you organize 1.5 billion people? They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs. It's very complex Tbh. I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves. They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.usmarine wrote:
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 mil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?sergeriver wrote:
I bet you would speak out if your life were at risk. Don't be naive, these people are nutjobs and would kill anyone that speaks against them. Answer this: would you speak out if you were a Pakistani and wanted to do something about the Taleban? Be honest. I'll believe you dude.usmarine wrote:
wrong again. I bash the peaceful ones who do not speak out and do something about the radicals. I have more respect for the radicals tbh. At least they do not hide their true feelings.
Last edited by sergeriver (2008-02-18 11:33:02)
Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that. If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.sergeriver wrote:
How do you organize 1.5 billion people? They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs. It's very complex Tbh. I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves. They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.usmarine wrote:
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 mil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?sergeriver wrote:
I bet you would speak out if your life were at risk. Don't be naive, these people are nutjobs and would kill anyone that speaks against them. Answer this: would you speak out if you were a Pakistani and wanted to do something about the Taleban? Be honest. I'll believe you dude.
Last edited by usmarine (2008-02-18 11:36:06)
How many radicals do you think there are within Islam? I honestly don't know. Maybe 10k, 50k, 100k, more...? Who knows? My point is that the moderate ones maybe don't know who the radicals are, or maybe some of them support their cause, and then their cause if completely fucked. Maybe the moderate ones are so desprate they think those fuckers are helping them. If that's the case and the moderate ones won't speak out, well Islam is screwed. I really don't know.usmarine wrote:
Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that. If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.sergeriver wrote:
How do you organize 1.5 billion people? They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs. It's very complex Tbh. I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves. They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.usmarine wrote:
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 mil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?
Yup they should stand up against the extremists.... but they don't because they are just ordinary people... and ordinary people never like to rock-the-boat about anything....usmarine wrote:
Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that. If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.sergeriver wrote:
How do you organize 1.5 billion people? They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs. It's very complex Tbh. I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves. They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.usmarine wrote:
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 mil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?
but its the same with Christianity.... In the past I'm sure the majority never supported the historical atrocities but did nout to stop them, or in more modern times the majority never did nout about priest after priest kiddy fiddling, or protest when the church just moved/hid them rather than kick them out and do everything to support the police.
Last edited by KylieTastic (2008-02-18 11:45:58)
These aren't ordinary people. These are people misguided by the old wise man with the beard Imam. As I said somewhere previously, it's easy to fill someone with hate and jelousy when his living conditions are not even a fraction of what people somewhere else live like.
inane little opines
Really? Tell that to the blacks in the South during the 50's, 60's, and 70's.KylieTastic wrote:
and ordinary people never like to rock-the-boat about anything....
Why don't the US populace overcome the violent gangbangers in society? The majority of the populace appear to be strongly against them and vastly outnumber them, hence by your logic the US population must want violent gangbangers?usmarine wrote:
Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that. If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.sergeriver wrote:
How do you organize 1.5 billion people? They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs. It's very complex Tbh. I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves. They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.usmarine wrote:
Not just as one person no. But 1.5 mil vs a few rads as you put it, you could crush them easily yes?
They had a leader.usmarine wrote:
Really? Tell that to the blacks in the South during the 50's, 60's, and 70's.KylieTastic wrote:
and ordinary people never like to rock-the-boat about anything....