BF2S Forums Those Eurotrash appeasers are at it again...

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

How do you organize 1.5 billion people?  They would need a moderate leader who would get killed by the nutjobs.  It's very complex Tbh.  I think there are reasons to think Islam is a problem, but you need to understand that those 1.5 billion have little power by themselves.  They can't crush these fuckers unless someone leads them.

Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that.  If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.

How many radicals do you think there are within Islam?  I honestly don't know.  Maybe 10k, 50k, 100k, more...?  Who knows?  My point is that the moderate ones maybe don't know who the radicals are, or maybe some of them support their cause, and then their cause if completely fucked.  Maybe the moderate ones are so desprate they think those fuckers are helping them.  If that's the case and the moderate ones won't speak out, well Islam is screwed.  I really don't know.

Wait a sec............You are telling me that muslims can not differentiate the good from the bad of their own people, and you expect outsiders to??

You expect outsiders to welcome ALL of Islam simply because there is no way to tell the difference?? I think it is a little more complicated than that, don't you?

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Nope...sorry serge, I do not buy that.  If they felt as strong about the radicals as they did cartoons, 1.5bil could easily overcome the "few" radicals.

How many radicals do you think there are within Islam?  I honestly don't know.  Maybe 10k, 50k, 100k, more...?  Who knows?  My point is that the moderate ones maybe don't know who the radicals are, or maybe some of them support their cause, and then their cause if completely fucked.  Maybe the moderate ones are so desprate they think those fuckers are helping them.  If that's the case and the moderate ones won't speak out, well Islam is screwed.  I really don't know.

Wait a sec............You are telling me that muslims can not differentiate the good from the bad of their own people, and you expect outsiders to??

You expect outsiders to welcome ALL of Islam simply because there is no way to tell the difference?? I think it is a little more complicated than that, don't you?

Who said anything about receiving them?  I'm asking you not to generalize.  If you were living in the conditions most of the moderate ones live, maybe you wouldn't be able to tell the difference either.

usmarine wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Why don't the US populace overcome the violent gangbangers in society? The majority of the populace appear to be strongly against them and vastly outnumber them, hence by your logic the US population must want violent gangbangers?

We have actually.  We took care of it.  It is 1/10 of what it used to be in the 80's.  So you see, we did take care of it.

They aren't gone though are they, why not?

If you have any even remote knowledge of history you'll see that the vast majority can overwhelingly want something and not get it. The example of blacks in America was used. The oppression they suffered didn't start in the 50's, it'd been going on for centuries, by you logic they must have wanted to be second class citizens or slaves up till the civil rights movements began. Your own example backs up Serv's suggestion that a leader is required to focus and unite the people in order for cange to occur. If your asseetion is correct then women didn't want equal rights in society for the entire span of our histories up till the point they got them. People wanted to be peasants toiling under the hereditary rule of royals in Europe until democratisation began.

sergeriver wrote:

If you were living in the conditions most of the moderate ones live, maybe you wouldn't be able to tell the difference either.

This is the same argument used to excuse minority crime in the cities here in the US.  I don't buy that either.

usmarine wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

by you logic they must have wanted to be second class citizens or slaves up till the civil rights movements began.

Jesus christ what are you talking about?  I know your name may imply certain things, but you do not have to live up to it.  How the fuck was I implying that?  How the hell can you come to that conclusion?  I am mean seriously, are you just banging your keyboard then hitting spell check or something?

Read what you read, and follow the logical conclusions of it.

usmarine wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Jesus christ what are you talking about?  I know your name may imply certain things, but you do not have to live up to it.  How the fuck was I implying that?  How the hell can you come to that conclusion?  I am mean seriously, are you just banging your keyboard then hitting spell check or something?

Read what you read, and follow the logical conclusions of it.

k

He said ordinary people do not rise up, and I explained to him that they did actually.  I have no idea how you could not see that.

They had a leader.

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

They had a leader.

Dude I mean everybody.  Including white lawyers who put their families at risk.

Ah, ok.  Even though, what about Christians in the time of the Spanish Inquisition?  Did all Christians speak out or they kept quiet in silence?

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Dude I mean everybody.  Including white lawyers who put their families at risk.

Ah, ok.  Even though, what about Christians in the time of the Spanish Inquisition?  Did all Christians speak out or they kept quiet in silence?

well not sure we should go that far back serge

It's an example.  Maybe you can compare that silence to the silence of the moderate Muslims today.  I dunno.

sergeriver wrote:

They had a leader.

So 1.5 bil muslims are all sheep?

sergeriver wrote:

It's an example.  Maybe you can compare that silence to the silence of the moderate Muslims today.  I dunno.

That is a terrible example, and you know it.

Varegg wrote:

Yes indeed, Norway like any other western country or state is racist in many ways.

The rest of your post is really a semantics discussion. I have my opinion and you have yours - lets leave it at that or we'll have a 30 page discussion about a phrase we both perfectly well knows the meaning of.

I guess pointing out an absurdity in your logic gets nowhere.  The point is, saying that immigrants should contribute or leave is not racist.  It is not a semantics debate.

Varegg wrote:

I wouldn't call an anti-Islamic statement racist and i never have.

What i call racist really shines kinda bright in just that highlighted statement, he makes comments about an religion in a way that underlying calls the people practicing the religion lesser beings.

So insulting a mixed group of people that has no particular ethnicity is racist to all those groups inside?  That's such a faulty statement that it's almost funny.

IG-Calibre wrote:

How can any of us know what dialogues are going on within Muslim communities unless we are in them? would even the right winged news media netwroks even bother to air such events? who knows? i'm personally following this interesting blog - blogging the qur'an - http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/ … _fall.html

I know personally that it was within our own community that the peace process was brought about here, with a lot of help from the outside but ultimately we had to challenge the bigots within our own communities.. I'd imagine that this will also be the case within the Muslim community, though of course there are many other factors involved as well..

I live among the Muslim community. Half of my family is Muslim, basically my wife and all of her family. My family is mainly christian. I do hear what is being said and worried about in the Muslim community that I share. For one, they do fear the radical side of Islam and the Sharia courts that are trying to extend into Europe, Canada and America are a perfect example of extremism trying to spread. The Muslims I know want nothing to do with such courts as I posted in another forum topic here. Also, there are plenty of examples that have involved my family that makes it difficult for moderate Muslims to speak out. There is fear among moderate Muslims, not so much the ones living abroad, but definitely the ones who live in their native countries such as Indonesia and now its growing in the Philippines.

Moderate Muslims are harassed all the time for shopping in malls, eating at McDonald's or watching a movie at a movie theater. You may not hear about bombings or be-headings in these other countries but there is a major problem. Movie theaters, phone shops, internet shops, restaurants gets destroyed or vandalized all the time in an effort to scare moderate Muslims from taking part in anything they deem western. Whether anyone here wants to believe it or not, there is a problem for moderate Muslims and extremism affects all of us and will continue to do so at the cost of freedom for many people.