BF2S Forums Socialism defined...

S.Lythberg wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

You also think it's fair that society is ruled by these people who buy off politicians and thus get no taxes?  You seem to be looking at it from the perspective of somebody who can barely afford to live in California.  Both my parents didn't go to college and they work not-so-good jobs, so according to your theory, they're being "punished" by not having good jobs.  I'm being "punished" by not being plain old middle class and whatnot.  Basically your theory is bull.

punished? rofl!!!!

no. they just shouldve done better.

Sorry socialists, but thats the cold, hard truth.  All wage rates in the country are set at or near market level, meaning that a person who makes billions of dollars has produced billions of dollars, while a person who makes nothing, produces nothing.

An engineer gets paid to design a bridge that millions of people will depend on for their livelihood, a business man will provide jobs and means to thousands of employees, and an athlete will provide millions of people a few hours of entertainment.  They get paid so much because there is no one else in the world capable of doing what they do.

Your salary is directly related to how much you do for society, and that is how it should be.

QF FUCKING T.

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Mitch wrote:

He should live how he fucking wants to live! Not how the fucking government tells him he can live!
If he spends the first 30 years of his fucking life, starting a business from scratch, and now hes 50 and has a thriving business and billions in income, you think it would be right for the government to take his profits and give them to others???

Thats the biggest load of bullshit ive ever fucking heard dude!!!!

If he wants to live the lifestyle of a 10-billionair, he fucking can!!
Why should he be limited to how he can live, just because hes better then everyone else!!!!!!!!!

If you apply the same idea to ANYTHING ELSE you realize its complete bullshit!

Would you feel the same way if hypothetically you had to collect cans to pay rent on a crappy apartment?

Yes! I fucking would! Sure, i'de say 'Wow i wish i had that kind of money' but it doesn't mean it should be given to me.

Why doesn't fucking Hilary Clinton, and Nancy Polocy and fucking Barbara Strisand offer up they're money. They're fucking massively rich, and all they do is sit on they're ass! I don't see them donating any of their fucking money!

What if Mr. Billionair made 5 billion in profit but has to put 4 billion back in his company for new equipment, but the government takes the 4 billion to give to the poor. All of the sudden your life is being ruined.

There's a difference.  Donald Trump has a net worth of $2.9 Billion, the rest of the money is in the company, whatever it is.

Also, I just hate this thing where, for example, Hugh Hefner is 82 and he has three girlfriends that are rather attractive.  It's because he's rich and they're gold-digging (hopefully) sluts.

Last edited by FallenMorgan (2008-02-19 11:32:35)

FallenMorgan wrote:

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Would you feel the same way if hypothetically you had to collect cans to pay rent on a crappy apartment?

Yes! I fucking would! Sure, i'de say 'Wow i wish i had that kind of money' but it doesn't mean it should be given to me.

Why doesn't fucking Hilary Clinton, and Nancy Polocy and fucking Barbara Strisand offer up they're money. They're fucking massively rich, and all they do is sit on they're ass! I don't see them donating any of their fucking money!

What if Mr. Billionair made 5 billion in profit but has to put 4 billion back in his company for new equipment, but the government takes the 4 billion to give to the poor. All of the sudden your life is being ruined.

There's a difference.  Donald Trump has a net worth of $2.9 Billion, the rest of the money is in the company, whatever it is.

Also, I just hate this thing where, for example, Hugh Hefner is 82 and he has three girlfriends that are rather attractive.  It's because he's rich and they're gold-digging (hopefully) sluts.

And your point?

CameronPoe wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

Sorry socialists, but thats the cold, hard truth.  All wage rates in the country are set at or near market level, meaning that a person who makes billions of dollars has produced billions of dollars, while a person who makes nothing, produces nothing.

And those that inherit billions of dollars don't have to lift a finger their entire life.... entire successive generations of lazy, self-indulgent do-nothings with no onus on them to reinvest their money or put it to any use other than the importation of caviare from Russia and fast cars from Italy....

The modern aristocracy basically. Living off the hard work and entrepreneurialism of others. Those on the breadline will always have to work if they want any kind of standard of life, these people won't. These people will never know the value of a dollar.

Well then they get a lucky break. Oh well. You weren't born as the child of a rich dude, big fucking deal. They bask in the sucess of their family. So?

Mitch wrote:

Well then they get a lucky break. Oh well. You weren't born as the child of a rich dude, big fucking deal. They bask in the sucess of their family. So?

You complain about lazy good-for-nothing types 'leeching' when these guys can be every bit as 'leechtastic'. Most poor people will work one hundred times as hard as one of these people who will never have to lift a finger and they will probably only just keep their head above water, so to speak. Fuck the complainers - if someone has vastly more disposable income than the average man then he can fucking forego that ivory back scratcher he was going to buy next month in the interest of easing the burden on those that are most vulnerable and that are trying their best to get by/ahead.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-02-19 11:39:18)

CameronPoe wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

what do you think?

I think you just posted a really shit story that doesn't 'define' socialism well in any way, shape or form.

Not least for the fact that if it wasn't for socialism my parents would never have been able to send me to university where I attained a degree in engineering that repays the government/people of Ireland to the tune of tens of thousands of tax dollars a year through the job I was able to get with my degree.

Simplistic bollocks. Back to the drawing board Kmal.

lol at theory that socialists believe rich people are evil. Every wants to get rich, even socialists. Socialism is not meant to prohibit the accumulation of wealth - it just advocates being a little more 'society-minded'.

Exactly. Over exaggeration is Terrible On FB2s.  it gets a little old.  No hard feelings, it just gets old.

I think it's a broad comparison, but you get the point of the story.

Im not related to anyone but my family. I dont expect any of you to give me anything, just as I dont expect to give up anything I have worked for or earned. I think socialism is very feeble minded, very short sighted, and does not actually do what the concept of socialism is intended to do. Someone gets shorthanded. It looks good on paper, but humans and human lives are not paper by any means.

Bottom line Socialism fails and will not be accepted in America. I will put my life on the line before that happens.

/ angry white man

CameronPoe wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Well then they get a lucky break. Oh well. You weren't born as the child of a rich dude, big fucking deal. They bask in the sucess of their family. So?

You complain about lazy good-for-nothing types 'leeching' when these guys can be every bit as 'leechtastic'. Most poor people will work one hundred times as hard as one of these people who will never have to lift a finger and they will probably only just keep their head above water, so to speak. Fuck the complainers - if someone has vastly more disposable income than the average man then he can fucking forego that ivory back scratcher he was going to buy next month in the interest of easing the burden on those that are most vulnerable.

But the thing is we made him rich. Hilton, we stayed in his hotels. Gates, we bought into his OS.

I come from a lower middle class family, my dad was a manger at a Mcdonalds when I was growing up. My mom was a part-time seamstress.
We had food my dad brought home from work, but you know what, I don't care about the rich and how they live. Let them live that way.

My parents now have enough to buy another house. I maybe struggling now but hard work pays off

SgtHeihn wrote:

But the thing is we made him rich. Hilton, we stayed in his hotels. Gates, we bought into his OS.

I come from a lower middle class family, my dad was a manger at a Mcdonalds when I was growing up. My mom was a part-time seamstress.
We had food my dad brought home from work, but you know what, I don't care about the rich and how they live. Let them live that way.

My parents now have enough to buy another house. I maybe struggling now but hard work pays off

I'm not complaining about those who work hard to make their fortune. What's your point?

CameronPoe wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Yes, He CAN. If he wants to. It shouldn't be a fucking law though!!
It would be the right thing to do, yes. But what ever happened to personal fucking choice?

It's America, the land of the free. The land where you used to have to fend for yourself. But now theres to many pussys who think everything should be given to them.

Not everyones going to be rich, but anyone can be rich! Most don't have the mindset to do anything with their lives though.

Well thankfully for me, no it's not America. It's Europe. Less likely to be homeless, less likely to be shot, less likely to be sacked, certain to be able to afford sending my children to university, almost equally capable of purchasing whatever trinket I want. 

Being taxed a few percent more of your ample disposable income destroys your personal choice? What - you mean you can't buy the superhypermegaglobal yacht you can only buy the superhyper yacht? This myth about tax destorying personal choice is hilarious. If you think you live on a planet where you can do what you want, when you want, then you have a lot of growing up to do. Reality has a habit of curbing personal choice right from the fucking outset.

Maybe you dont want the Superhype Yacht! Maybe your life-long dream as a bottle collector when you were a teen, was to own the superhypermegaglobal Yacht someday. And then, while you were collecting your bottles, you thought of an invention to make collecting bottles easier, you got a patent, started producing it, and now your a billionair because everyone buys it. Enjoying every cent of your income. You bask in your superiority, knowing that you got here because you used your brain, and worked hard, and had the productive mindset.Now you see that your government is going to steal that money you earned, and give it to the failures who werent as smart as you! and who dont deserve anything more than what they can supply for themselves!!!!!!!!!!!

FallenMorgan wrote:

There's a difference.  Donald Trump has a net worth of $2.9 Billion, the rest of the money is in the company, whatever it is.

Also, I just hate this thing where, for example, Hugh Hefner is 82 and he has three girlfriends that are rather attractive.  It's because he's rich and they're gold-digging (hopefully) sluts.

What is your point? They both made their fortune, it's theirs', not anyone elses'

You sound like you are some kind of victim here. So you dont have a rich wealthy family to lean on? You're not a fantastically attractive dude that can get by on your looks? Huh, well welcome to your life. Good luck champ, hope you accompolish something with it and not blame the world with your problems...

CameronPoe wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

But the thing is we made him rich. Hilton, we stayed in his hotels. Gates, we bought into his OS.

I come from a lower middle class family, my dad was a manger at a Mcdonalds when I was growing up. My mom was a part-time seamstress.
We had food my dad brought home from work, but you know what, I don't care about the rich and how they live. Let them live that way.

My parents now have enough to buy another house. I maybe struggling now but hard work pays off

I'm not complaining about those who work hard to make their fortune. What's your point?

My point was that people need to stop worrying about the Paris's, the Brittney's and worry more about themselves.

CameronPoe wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Maybe you dont want the Superhype Yacht! Maybe your life-long dream as a bottle collector when you were a teen, was to own the superhypermegaglobal Yacht someday. And then, while you were collecting your bottles, you thought of an invention to make collecting bottles easier, you got a patent, started producing it, and now your a billionair because everyone buys it. Enjoying every cent of your income. You bask in your superiority, knowing that you got here because you used your brain, and worked hard, and had the productive mindset.Now you see that your government is going to steal that money you earned, and give it to the failures who werent as smart as you! and who dont deserve anything more than what they can supply for themselves!!!!!!!!!!!

You live in a country and a society in which you were given the opportunity and an economic arena in which you could do that. That country is a living breathing entity of 300 million people whose lives affect each other daily. Your country isn't just a flat empty plain of land where 'everything is possible'. It's a country with railtracks, highways, interstates, hospitals, schools, universities, colleges, medical clinics, airports, seaports, a postal system, telecommunications infrastructure. You OWE that country for the opportunity. The sacrifice of a few ivory back scratchers is an irrelevance. You should be grateful to your country for providing you with an economic arena in which you could become a success - an economic arena built on a mix of entrepreneurialism and taxpayers money.

No, I owe the hard working people who started this shit, not the government! (hypothetically)  I owe Bill Gates because his OS runs my whole fucking companies computer system.
I owe the guy who started a shirt printing company because he prints my clothing line.
I owe the guy who started Ebay because he sells my companies shit.

Do you get what im saying?

And when i start a *whatever* Company, that supplies stuff to the public, ill get respect for it. And ill get money for it. And ill do whatever the fuck i want with that money because its MINE, its all fucking MINE.

Your don't get the idea of capitalism. There is a demand. I supply stuff. People supply money. I don't supply stuff and money.
I give to the people of America through the products my business supplies. And your saying that isn't enough? Now i have to give them my stuff and money. Shit, i'de mine as well fucking not charge them in the first place for my product! Why bother?
End of fucking discussion.

Last edited by Mitch (2008-02-19 12:05:56)