BF2S Forums Kosovo Declares Independence

+1 to Spain for not recognising Kosovo.

+1 to countries supporting independence.

I can see it now - Kosovo being the launchpad and base of operations of ethnic Albanian independence movements in nations such as Macedonia and Montenegro. What a fuckup. What makes it worse is that it looks like Ireland is going to recognise this little faux-state too.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Kosovo has been an historically autonomous region, but we shouldn't let them get independence because they are surrounded by Serbs and Albania has been established as the country for Albanians?

I don't agree with the "Identity" reasoning offered by Harry de Quetteville.

The partition of Yugoslavia by the Axis Powers from 1941 and 1945 awarded most of the territory to the Italian-occupied Greater Albania, and a smaller part of it to German-occupied Serbia and Greater Bulgaria. During the occupation, thousands of Kosovo Serbs were expelled by armed Albanian groups, notably the Vulnetari militia. It is still not known exactly how many fell victim to this, but Serbian estimates put the figures at 10,000-40,000 killed with 70,000-100,000 expelled.

Following the end of the war and the establishment of Tito's Communist regime, Kosovo was granted the status of an autonomous region of Serbia in 1946 and became an autonomous province in 1963. The Communist government did not permit the return of many of the refugees.

Nice touch Tito. And today we congratulate the Vulnetari for expelling people from their homes.

the majority of kosovars dont consider themselves serbian

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-02-19 11:57:04)

CameronPoe wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Kosovo has been an historically autonomous region, but we shouldn't let them get independence because they are surrounded by Serbs and Albania has been established as the country for Albanians?

I don't agree with the "Identity" reasoning offered by Harry de Quetteville.

The partition of Yugoslavia by the Axis Powers from 1941 and 1945 awarded most of the territory to the Italian-occupied Greater Albania, and a smaller part of it to German-occupied Serbia and Greater Bulgaria. During the occupation, thousands of Kosovo Serbs were expelled by armed Albanian groups, notably the Vulnetari militia. It is still not known exactly how many fell victim to this, but Serbian estimates put the figures at 10,000-40,000 killed with 70,000-100,000 expelled.

Following the end of the war and the establishment of Tito's Communist regime, Kosovo was granted the status of an autonomous region of Serbia in 1946 and became an autonomous province in 1963. The Communist government did not permit the return of many of the refugees.

Nice touch Tito. And today we congratulate the Vulnetari for expelling people from their homes.

I don't think it is a congratulatory gesture to the massacre and displacement of ethnic Serbs, more of a nod of recognition to the people in the area for perservering through numerous wars and regional conflict.

Would a denial of independence congratulate Milosevic for attempting to quash Kosovar nationalism?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-19 12:06:47)

CameronPoe wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I don't think it is a congratulatory gesture to the massacre and displacement of ethnic Serbs, more of a nod of recognition to the people in the area for perservering through numerous wars and regional conflict.

Would a denial of independence congratulate Milosevic for attempting to quash Kosovar nationalism?

So what you're saying is that the displaced Serbs who weren't allowed to return didn't fight hard enough? Kind of like the Palestinians?

It is a different situation.  The international community does not recognize as Israel's any of the occupied territories.  Despite the ideals of zealous Jews, settlement of the area will not result in international recognition.  The diaspora of Jews resulted in the creation of Israel, and I have no problem with that - what is done is done.  I do have a problem with aggression on both sides in the diaspora, but that is not the same as opposing the movement for statehood.  The diaspora of Albanians contributed to the creation of Kosovo - and I have no problem with that.  I have a problem with the aggression on both sides of the conflict, but that is not the same as opposing statehood.

The region has been autonomous for some time now.  The declaration of independence was going to happen sooner than later.

.Sup wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

So what you're saying is that the displaced Serbs who weren't allowed to return didn't fight hard enough? Kind of like the Palestinians?

It is a different situation.  The international community does not recognize as Israel's any of the occupied territories.  Despite the ideals of zealous Jews, settlement of the area will not result in international recognition.  The diaspora of Jews resulted in the creation of Israel, and I have no problem with that - what is done is done.  I do have a problem with aggression on both sides in the diaspora, but that is not the same as opposing the movement for statehood.  The diaspora of Albanians contributed to the creation of Kosovo - and I have no problem with that.  I have a problem with the aggression on both sides of the conflict, but that is not the same as opposing statehood.

The region has been autonomous for some time now.  The declaration of independence was going to happen sooner than later.

Kosovo was autonomous because Serbs were so nice to let them have it. People of Kosovo had the chance to decide on themselves how their life will be lived. But the land where they live was always Serbian and it should always be.

more serbs should moved there then.

.Sup wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Kosovo was autonomous because Serbs were so nice to let them have it. People of Kosovo had the chance to decide on themselves how their life will be lived. But the land where they live was always Serbian and it should always be.

more serbs should moved there then.

explain why

when you let 90 percent of a population take over your lands, I think that means they want it more than you.

.Sup wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

.Sup wrote:

explain why

when you let 90 percent of a population take over your lands, I think that means they want it more than you.

I'm sure there is a city (small city perhaps) in America where 90% of population is different nationality than US. Independence?

thats pretty racists.  with your logic, because my skin is brown and my parents are immigrants, I have no loyalty towards my country.  Last time I checked, there is no such thing as an American "race".

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

.Sup wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

when you let 90 percent of a population take over your lands, I think that means they want it more than you.

I'm sure there is a city (small city perhaps) in America where 90% of population is different nationality than US. Independence?

thats pretty racists.  with your logic, because my skin is brown and my parents are immigrants, I have no loyalty towards my country.  Last time I checked, there is no such thing as an American "race".

The people of Kosovo don't have any loyalty then? Is that what ur saying?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

.Sup wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

It is a different situation.  The international community does not recognize as Israel's any of the occupied territories.  Despite the ideals of zealous Jews, settlement of the area will not result in international recognition.  The diaspora of Jews resulted in the creation of Israel, and I have no problem with that - what is done is done.  I do have a problem with aggression on both sides in the diaspora, but that is not the same as opposing the movement for statehood.  The diaspora of Albanians contributed to the creation of Kosovo - and I have no problem with that.  I have a problem with the aggression on both sides of the conflict, but that is not the same as opposing statehood.

The region has been autonomous for some time now.  The declaration of independence was going to happen sooner than later.

Kosovo was autonomous because Serbs were so nice to let them have it. People of Kosovo had the chance to decide on themselves how their life will be lived. But the land where they live was always Serbian and it should always be.

Why should the land always be Serbian?  Can you provide an answer that isn't emotional, i.e. based on logic and/or reason?  Independence is a gradual progression from Autonomy.

Perhaps Serbia can implement a sort of restitution or agreement plan with Kosovo regarding "their land".  Regional infighting will lead to nothing.  It is more important to the State of Serbia to lose Kosovo than the people of Serbia - and certain countries don't want to recognize the idea that autonomous regions progress to independant states.  To me, it just doesn't make sense for Kosovo to be a region of Serbia.

You said "It is more important to the State of Serbia to lose Kosovo than the people of Serbia".

You do know that Serbs also live in Kosovo right? What they think and want is not important right? I mean its Serbian land but since there's more Albanians on the Serbian territory, the Serbs should GTFO from Kosovo?

so less than 10 percent of a population should decide what the near 90% left should do?   

did you grow up in South Africa?