BF2S Forums Kosovo Declares Independence

.Sup wrote:

Nope that was never rightfully yours.
"After Yugoslavia fell, Germany, Italy, and Hungary each annexed parts of Slovenia, the largest part being Lower Styria which was annexed to the "Ostmark" (Nazi German Austria)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Slovenia
You should also check our first country called Carantania.

You were talking about the Serb Croat Sloven Kingdom what was created after WW1. Before that it was part from Austria as Karintia. But that little part at the Mura river was part from the Hungarian Kingdom. So was the easten part from todays Austria called "Burgenland"
My country was sliced into pieces and was given to the countries around us. Our north higlands and Subcarphatia was given to the made country Czechslovakia. Transylvania was given to Romania. Our south was given to the Serb-Croat-Sloven Kingdom. The west was given to Austria who started WW1 and forced our country into a war what we dont wanted. They got parts from us but they were also defeated. Funny isnt it ?
The main point was to erase this strong country in the middle of europe.

legionair wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

I see some of you have strong feelings against Kosovo independence. Im interested to hear what would your solution be to the problem (since something had to be done) and what exactly are you fears?

Try to make it realistic also.

Well, Im glad that at least some states showed balls and didnt recognize Kosovo independence, the last I suppose is Slovakia. My solution is to move them to Albanie and leave the Kosovo to Serbia. Or just cancel their independence pact, dont recognize it. We can not make same mistakes again as it was with Munich, when mainpowers gave Czechoslovakia to Hitler without asking them! One wise man once said: all new is well forgoten old. Im really afraid of political and military situation in Europe and in the world. As you can read from news, Serbs wont let it go so easy, even more when they have Russia support. They already burned USA embassy in Belgograd, also Croatian and German or Belgian, Im not so sure. Anyway this is going to escalate in a comflict is nothing is done.

Its simple.
The countries who dont recognize the independence of Kosovo all have someting. They all fear that ethinc groups would like to get autonomy and independence too. For example as you said Slovakia. In the south part they have over 500.000 Hungarians who would like to get total autonomy.
Its right over the border so if you check The First Vienna Award from 1938 it actually gave that territory back to Hungary. That had 80% Hungarian ethnic on that 12.000 km2. That should be the current border with Slovakia if you ask me. The nationalist politicians from Slovakia claim "we hate the hungarians in our country blablabla" really ? Then give them back to us with their land.
Plus with the 1947 trearties after WW2 set the borders back before 1938 and gave 3 towns to Slovakia at Pozsony (Bratislava) what were 100% Hungarian. Why that you may ask ?
My country was behind the iron curtain and russians had the leadership. Communism for over 40 years. 40 years of lies and destruction.

I find it kind of funny when Serbs living outside Serbia are bubbling over with rage and nationalism. Aren't you all rats who left sinking ship during nineties? Why didn't you stay in Jugoslavija and fight for your country/freedom/rights?

konfusion wrote:

Russia will veto their entry into the UN, at least, right?

-konfusion

Pretty much yep. Kosovo will be the new Taiwan.

legionair wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

I see some of you have strong feelings against Kosovo independence. Im interested to hear what would your solution be to the problem (since something had to be done) and what exactly are you fears?

Try to make it realistic also.

Well, Im glad that at least some states showed balls and didnt recognize Kosovo independence, the last I suppose is Slovakia. My solution is to move them to Albanie and leave the Kosovo to Serbia. Or just cancel their independence pact, dont recognize it. We can not make same mistakes again as it was with Munich, when mainpowers gave Czechoslovakia to Hitler without asking them! One wise man once said: all new is well forgoten old. Im really afraid of political and military situation in Europe and in the world. As you can read from news, Serbs wont let it go so easy, even more when they have Russia support. They already burned USA embassy in Belgograd, also Croatian and German or Belgian, Im not so sure. Anyway this is going to escalate in a comflict is nothing is done.

I said keep it real. You cant just move a family to Albania that lived in Kosovo for 500 years. Just like you couldnt deport all Irish descendants in USA. Non Serb majority is not something that happened in last 10 years. And even if it did can you HONESTLY imagine EU militaries committing to forcefully deport 2 million Muslims to Albania? Thats why I said "try to make it realistic".
Anyway keep in mind that if you were a descendant of Albanians living in Kosovo, you would want an independence too. You have to take in to account that they were second class citizens in Serbia since anyone alive today can remember. During Yugoslavia they were the shittiest poorest region where no money was invested.
Also you have to take in to account that Serbs showed so much unimaginable ruthlessness towards all non Serbs during the 90's that no sane world leader would even consider giving Serbia control over Kosovo. Its not even a remote option since the idea of Great Serbia is not dead, its very much alive and the hatred towards Albanian descendants in Kosovo is stronger today than it was 10 years ago. So EU cant ethnically cleanse Kosovo, they cant let the Serbs do it. There is no other realistic solution to the problem.

As far as .Sup's idea of leaving it as it is... well it would still be considered a temporary solution since the independent movement wouldn't die and Serbs would continue to leave the province. As you well know all of ex Yugoslavian states rely heavily on foreign investment and privatization of infrastructure. Well so far there was very little investment in Kosovo because its just a temporary solution and anything can happen. No one wants to risk their money. If you left it as it is no would risk investing money and Kosovo would remain with 70% unemployment. That would still make them unprivileged seccond class citizens in Serbia thus strengthening they movement even more. The tensions and hatred would grow and grow. Do you agree?

Russia decides to kick in

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europ … index.html

legionair wrote:

Look, it is just going to be worse. Balkans now are the strategic point for both- US and Russia. During Tito and after everyone frightened Yugoslavie, because they had decent power. Fool Miloshevitz made mistake when preferred Orthodox religion over Islam and now no one can stop the shit coming out of SuperSerbia. Until then at least they had it over control. I may agree that I would want to be independent, but for them its not realistic. They already have their state, if not, then I have to ask why the hell there is a country next door called Albanie?

Ok they have lived there for several years, but that doesnt mean they can form a state! Besides it looks like US by supporting them only wants to expand there, not even recognizing what will happen with the rest of a world. I just dont want that after years my grandson would ask- what was the cause of such a nonstability age in Europe and rest of the world which lead to global conflict? It doesnt mean that there should be WWIII but....

They lived there several generations not several years. But again I have to say, its unimaginable that EU would commit its militaries and millions of soldiers to deport 2 million people from Kosovo to Albania. They cant just say it, they would have to fight for it. Its just unimaginable and unrealistic. To let the Serbs try to ethnically cleanse the province is also, in my opinion, not a realistic option. That would lead to a new war that would last for years and years and its definitely the worst option. So it leaves one and only one option and that is independence. No matter how immoral or illegal you might consider it, its still the only option. And its not going to get worse its going to get better.

legionair wrote:

By moving Albaniens to Albanie or wherever I didnt realy meant it realistic. I am aware that it is impossible. And I shouldnt write several years... Yea, they have lived there for generations, although the oldest generation still knows that they are guests when the younger wants their country, their leaders and now when they are under shield of UN it is the best situation to declare independence.

The biggest bullshit is that you have to watch how people hate each other just because of religion! LOL! Nobody knows, nobody has proved that there is a God, nobody has seen him, those who saw must be mentally ill or blind. Damn it, its two religions fighting each other, that is just stupid! Im even glad that Im atheist.

This is the same bullshit as the Palestine/Israel conflict. Except people seem to actually notice this one...

It's now been fucked - gone to hell. Can't blame the Russians...

-konfusion

.Sup wrote:

There are Albanians in Macedonia, was a lot of fighting for independence there last year, surely more will come now when Kosovo got its independence. Then there are also Muslims in Bosnia, they also want independence and this is just the Balkans!

What do you mean Muslims in Bosnia also want independence? Bosnia is already independent?

Besides it shouldn't matter that they are Muslims. Does it matter

.Sup wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

.Sup wrote:

There are Albanians in Macedonia, was a lot of fighting for independence there last year, surely more will come now when Kosovo got its independence. Then there are also Muslims in Bosnia, they also want independence and this is just the Balkans!

What do you mean Muslims in Bosnia also want independence? Bosnia is already independent?

Besides it shouldn't matter that they are Muslims. Does it matter

There is a part of Bosnia where Muslims live. They want independence.

Sorry man but you are either confused about something or misinformed. Bosnia is independent and Muslims or Bosniaks are a majority in Bosnia. Since they are a majority there is no logic for them to be asking for independence from them selves. Also since they are a majority there is no particular place where they live since they live, well, everywhere.

Anyway we are getting off topic, I would still like to hear your [emphasis]realistic and doable[/emphasis] idea for solving the problem since you have a strong objection against independence. If you feel like it of course.

.Sup wrote:

kosovo already had autonomy, the Serbs stayed away from their politics. Kosovo had a president, prime minister, everything that an independent country has. You can't find something like that anywhere else yet they wanted to be totally independent in a land that wasn't theirs. Serbia gave them everything but it wasn't enough for them. It should stay like it was before the independence.

As I said that semi-autonomy was a temporary solution and Kosovo was considered unstable for foreign investment. You and I both know that without foreign investment no ex Yugoslavian country would be where it is now. And while big businesses from all over the world were opening factories in Croatia and Bosnia, everyone was reluctant to invest in Kosovo because of the uncertainty of the future. By leaving it as it was no one would still risk investing in Kosovo and population would remain poor and jobless. That would just make the situation worse and worse not just for the Kosovo province but for whole Serbia.

thanks for the 1 month revive for a prettty picture.