Poll

Nurture or Nature

Nurture46%46% - 13
Nature53%53% - 15
Total: 28
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6342|Glendale, CA
I'd just like to say that I object to something in society.  I don't like the concept of five year olds wanting to get married and have kids someday.  Here's different arguements for the idea of nurture or nature in society.

Nurture

Children that are forced to go to church from an early age are usually the ones who want to get married and have kids and whatnot.  Parents and community play a large role in a child's development.  I, for example, was not forced into a belief set, I just formed my own insane ideas on the world.  In many families, little Jimmy is taught how to change the oil in the car, while little Suzie is taught how to bake cookies.  This conforms children, and eventually adults, into their specific social roles.  If mommy is a feminist and daddy is a metrosexual though, the children in a home grow up, usually, to be reflective of their parent's ideas.

Nature

Many people who are liberal, for example, grew up in conservative christian homes, and some conservatives grew up in liberal homes.  Naturally, females are programmed in a way to like children to some mild extent, and as we all know, boys are programmed to be sex hounds in one way or another.  It's not like that in all cases, some men are sedate in their sexuality, some women are butch lesbians, and so on.

---

In my opinion, gender roles are imposed on girls with things such as those little baby dolls that piss and burp and everything.  While boys are given toys such as GI Joe, girls are given toys such as dolls and other stuff.  Peer pressure also plays a role in it.  If a girl goes to school with short hair, for example, she's ostracized by other girls, if a boy has long hair, like me in elementary school, he's ostracized.  Thus, in order to be accepted into a larger group, which is a natural human need basically, people, namely people at a young age, will change who they basically would be on a natural path, to fit in.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7102|Canberra, AUS
Where is the 'both' option?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6342|Glendale, CA
Well think of it as mostly nurture or mostly nature.  It's never just one or the other.
motherdear
Member
+25|7079|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)
well a lot of what you are saying makes sense, i do believe that wanting to have children someday is natural because that is afterall why we are here and therefore that reflects in people (not saying that all people want a kid), but i just would love having a kid and watch him/her grow and experience it but tbh i don't know if i want marriage. so i think marriage is mostly nurture and wanting to have kids are a biproduct of wanting to expand the race ( or just plainly wanting to have sex) and i just think that it's expressed differently in men and women, where women think more about the kids part and the man thinking about sex, and this can of course be altered by nurturing.
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6953|South Florida

FallenMorgan wrote:

I'd just like to say that I object to something in society.  I don't like the concept of five year olds wanting to get married and have kids someday.  Here's different arguements for the idea of nurture or nature in society.

Nurture

Children that are forced to go to church from an early age are usually the ones who want to get married and have kids and whatnot.  Parents and community play a large role in a child's development.  I, for example, was not forced into a belief set, I just formed my own insane ideas on the world.  In many families, little Jimmy is taught how to change the oil in the car, while little Suzie is taught how to bake cookies.  This conforms children, and eventually adults, into their specific social roles.  If mommy is a feminist and daddy is a metrosexual though, the children in a home grow up, usually, to be reflective of their parent's ideas.

Nature

Many people who are liberal, for example, grew up in conservative christian homes, and some conservatives grew up in liberal homes.  Naturally, females are programmed in a way to like children to some mild extent, and as we all know, boys are programmed to be sex hounds in one way or another.  It's not like that in all cases, some men are sedate in their sexuality, some women are butch lesbians, and so on.

---

In my opinion, gender roles are imposed on girls with things such as those little baby dolls that piss and burp and everything.  While boys are given toys such as GI Joe, girls are given toys such as dolls and other stuff.  Peer pressure also plays a role in it.  If a girl goes to school with short hair, for example, she's ostracized by other girls, if a boy has long hair, like me in elementary school, he's ostracized.  Thus, in order to be accepted into a larger group, which is a natural human need basically, people, namely people at a young age, will change who they basically would be on a natural path, to fit in.
I like your point, but this is more of a statement than a question.
As for Nature or Nurture? Both. Give you kid a set of rules to follow and they will naturally adapt to their community, which should also be brought up in those same general rules. Respect mainly.

But i think you had a few ideas in your head and they kind of mixed together into 1 thread, (which i do all the time).
My opinion on gender roles is firm. I believe to some extent, the woman of the family should do womanly things, and the man should work. Now this doesn't mean the man can't wash his own dish, or fold his own laundry.

And about kids wanting to grow up and get married, i dont really see a problem with that. Marriage isn't really a religious commitment. Good couples who are ready for the next step get married, whether religious or not. It looks good.

Also, im not a big fan of over-nurturing because it can deffinetly be a bad thing. Kids can be talked into believing anything. And if they are brought up in a community which believes the same, it can be dangerous. Look at some Islamic communities for an example of extreme nurture.

Last edited by Mitch (2008-02-25 21:36:09)

15 more years! 15 more years!
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6342|Glendale, CA
For example, I never want kids, I'm an only child, my parents hate eachother.  I agree that ensuring the survival of the species is an instinct, yet other things, like the reasons, IE continuing the "family name" or something, are nurture.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7060|949

FallenMorgan wrote:

For example, I never want kids, I'm an only child, my parents hate eachother.  I agree that ensuring the survival of the species is an instinct, yet other things, like the reasons, IE continuing the "family name" or something, are nurture.
What about passing on your genes?

PS - I'll bet you change your mind on the "I never want kids" tip.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-25 21:37:07)

Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7118|Tampa Bay Florida

Spark wrote:

Where is the 'both' option?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6839|'Murka

It is both.

It is mostly nature, with details fleshed out by nurture.

Watch any documentary on sexual history...it'll cover all those bases and show you how most of our social behaviors with regard to sex and marriage are rooted in instinct. The nurture is the window dressing that makes different cultures behave differently around the core aspects of picking a partner and making/raising children.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7269|Cologne, Germany

Spearhead wrote:

Spark wrote:

Where is the 'both' option?
seconded.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6713

Some entertaining comments on the effects of society on the differences between boys and girls in the first 4 minutes of this video about Mary Shelly.
David.P
Banned
+649|6701
Fuck em both! Who wants kids? We're all gonna die anyway, Why not make our lives filled with as much pleasure to ourselves at the expense of others?
chittydog
less busy
+586|7263|Kubra, Damn it!

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I'd just like to say that I object to something in society.  I don't like the concept of five year olds wanting to get married and have kids someday.  Here's different arguements for the idea of nurture or nature in society.

Nurture

Children that are forced to go to church from an early age are usually the ones who want to get married and have kids and whatnot.  Parents and community play a large role in a child's development.  I, for example, was not forced into a belief set, I just formed my own insane ideas on the world.  In many families, little Jimmy is taught how to change the oil in the car, while little Suzie is taught how to bake cookies.  This conforms children, and eventually adults, into their specific social roles.  If mommy is a feminist and daddy is a metrosexual though, the children in a home grow up, usually, to be reflective of their parent's ideas.

Nature

Many people who are liberal, for example, grew up in conservative christian homes, and some conservatives grew up in liberal homes.  Naturally, females are programmed in a way to like children to some mild extent, and as we all know, boys are programmed to be sex hounds in one way or another.  It's not like that in all cases, some men are sedate in their sexuality, some women are butch lesbians, and so on.

---

In my opinion, gender roles are imposed on girls with things such as those little baby dolls that piss and burp and everything.  While boys are given toys such as GI Joe, girls are given toys such as dolls and other stuff.  Peer pressure also plays a role in it.  If a girl goes to school with short hair, for example, she's ostracized by other girls, if a boy has long hair, like me in elementary school, he's ostracized.  Thus, in order to be accepted into a larger group, which is a natural human need basically, people, namely people at a young age, will change who they basically would be on a natural path, to fit in.
I like your point, but this is more of a statement than a question.
As for Nature or Nurture? Both. Give you kid a set of rules to follow and they will naturally adapt to their community, which should also be brought up in those same general rules. Respect mainly.

But i think you had a few ideas in your head and they kind of mixed together into 1 thread, (which i do all the time).
My opinion on gender roles is firm. I believe to some extent, the woman of the family should do womanly things, and the man should work. Now this doesn't mean the man can't wash his own dish, or fold his own laundry.

And about kids wanting to grow up and get married, i dont really see a problem with that. Marriage isn't really a religious commitment. Good couples who are ready for the next step get married, whether religious or not. It looks good.

Also, im not a big fan of over-nurturing because it can deffinetly be a bad thing. Kids can be talked into believing anything. And if they are brought up in a community which believes the same, it can be dangerous. Look at some Islamic communities for an example of extreme nurture.
Wow, Mitch. This is one of your more well-thought-out and mature posts. I like it!
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6342|Glendale, CA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

For example, I never want kids, I'm an only child, my parents hate eachother.  I agree that ensuring the survival of the species is an instinct, yet other things, like the reasons, IE continuing the "family name" or something, are nurture.
What about passing on your genes?

PS - I'll bet you change your mind on the "I never want kids" tip.
Why?  Because one day I'll wake up and say "I wanna change diapers and cause a women to have saggy breasts"?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7189

Answer your fucking California thread before you start new ones.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6558|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

In many families, little Jimmy is taught how to change the oil in the car, while little Suzie is taught how to bake cookies.
I was taught to change the oil and bake cookies.  I can operate powertools effectively (and properly), and many of my friends consider me to be like a mountain man, but I can operate a sewing machine better than my fiancee.  I didn't need to force my way into fitting in, either.

FallenMorgan wrote:

I just formed my own insane ideas on the world.
I think this explains a lot.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6558|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

For example, I never want kids, I'm an only child, my parents hate eachother.  I agree that ensuring the survival of the species is an instinct, yet other things, like the reasons, IE continuing the "family name" or something, are nurture.
What about passing on your genes?

PS - I'll bet you change your mind on the "I never want kids" tip.
Why?  Because one day I'll wake up and say "I wanna change diapers and cause a women to have saggy breasts"?
You missed the point.  It is instinct that makes us want to have kids.  Someday, that urge will awaken in you.
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6953|South Florida

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:


What about passing on your genes?

PS - I'll bet you change your mind on the "I never want kids" tip.
Why?  Because one day I'll wake up and say "I wanna change diapers and cause a women to have saggy breasts"?
You missed the point.  It is instinct that makes us want to have kids.  Someday, that urge will awaken in you.
Idk how old he is now, if your a teenager i wouldnt expect it yet, but think of when your 65 and your lonely and need help. And realize that you didn't contribute to your family... And when you die, you have no one to take over your progress in life.
15 more years! 15 more years!
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6558|North Tonawanda, NY

Mitch wrote:

Idk how old he is now, if your a teenager i wouldnt expect it yet, but think of when your 65 and your lonely and need help. And realize that you didn't contribute to your family... And when you die, you have no one to take over your progress in life.
He said in another thread that his in 16 (I think).  He is saying that he will never want kids--that will most likely turn out to be false.  But his ideas on the world will be turned topsy-turvy when he does have kids, and he has to raise them.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7118|Tampa Bay Florida

Mitch wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:


Why?  Because one day I'll wake up and say "I wanna change diapers and cause a women to have saggy breasts"?
You missed the point.  It is instinct that makes us want to have kids.  Someday, that urge will awaken in you.
Idk how old he is now, if your a teenager i wouldnt expect it yet, but think of when your 65 and your lonely and need help. And realize that you didn't contribute to your family... And when you die, you have no one to take over your progress in life.
Well..... some people make a conscious decision not to have kids.  They think the world is so fucked up, they don't want their would-be children to live in it.

Or people who have dangerous jobs, like soldiers and policemen.  I can see how people would not want kids.  Its not just diapers and shit that make people to not want them.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker
Shame on those 5 year old girls for wanting to get married!
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6558|North Tonawanda, NY

Spearhead wrote:

Well..... some people make a conscious decision not to have kids.  They think the world is so fucked up, they don't want their would-be children to live in it.
Now I have my daily dose of nihilism.  Thanks.

Some people might make those decisions, but not when they are high school age.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker

FallenMorgan wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

For example, I never want kids, I'm an only child, my parents hate eachother.  I agree that ensuring the survival of the species is an instinct, yet other things, like the reasons, IE continuing the "family name" or something, are nurture.
What about passing on your genes?

PS - I'll bet you change your mind on the "I never want kids" tip.
Why?  Because one day I'll wake up and say "I wanna change diapers and cause a women to have saggy breasts"?
The positives of fatherhood far outweigh the negatives.  Perhaps you fear that your household could end up with way your parent's has and you would not want your kids to go through that?  Just guessing. 

PS  The diaper changing is easy and the breasts are still great.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7118|Tampa Bay Florida

SenorToenails wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Well..... some people make a conscious decision not to have kids.  They think the world is so fucked up, they don't want their would-be children to live in it.
Now I have my daily dose of nihilism.  Thanks.

Some people might make those decisions, but not when they are high school age.
I'm in high school.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6558|North Tonawanda, NY

Spearhead wrote:

I'm in high school.
Good for you.  Let's see if your decision stands in 10 years.  I bet it won't.

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