Remind me of IsraelTurquoise wrote:
I learned this from a friend of mine that lived in Germany for a while. He was a Bosnian that moved and lived there for like 5 years. He said Germany has multiple levels of citizenship. If you immigrate to Germany, you can never attain the same level of citizenship as someone that was born there.B.Schuss wrote:
what ? care to elaborate how our citizenship laws are racist ?Turquoise wrote:
Besides, as I mentioned before, no amount of political correctness will change the racism of Germany's citizenship policies. If anyone wants to criticize them, that is where the criticism should be aimed.
In addition to this, even if you are born in Germany, if your parents are immigrants, then you still can't get the same citizenship as someone who is born in Germany to parents that aren't immigrants.
To me, that is very racist. There should only be one level of citizenship -- legal.
In America, we have green cards and citizenship. Once you go through the right steps, you can become a full citizen with the same rights as someone born here. The only right we don't give to people not born here is the ability to run for president -- which admittedly is also racist.
Poll
Is Germany being too politically correct?
| Yes | 62% | 62% - 54 | ||||
| No | 11% | 11% - 10 | ||||
| I have no idea what you're talking about. | 25% | 25% - 22 | ||||
| Total: 86 | ||||||
tell us how you really feelAutralianChainsaw wrote:
Remind me of IsraelTurquoise wrote:
I learned this from a friend of mine that lived in Germany for a while. He was a Bosnian that moved and lived there for like 5 years. He said Germany has multiple levels of citizenship. If you immigrate to Germany, you can never attain the same level of citizenship as someone that was born there.B.Schuss wrote:
what ? care to elaborate how our citizenship laws are racist ?
In addition to this, even if you are born in Germany, if your parents are immigrants, then you still can't get the same citizenship as someone who is born in Germany to parents that aren't immigrants.
To me, that is very racist. There should only be one level of citizenship -- legal.
In America, we have green cards and citizenship. Once you go through the right steps, you can become a full citizen with the same rights as someone born here. The only right we don't give to people not born here is the ability to run for president -- which admittedly is also racist.
You didn't learn about the Rape of Nanking from history books? I learned about it in high school...imortal wrote:
I think it can now be considered a part of history. Nazi Germany is past. No one in political power in Germany today had any responsibility for the government and its descisions during the Nazi regime. Like slavery in America, it is time to let it rest. I do not say to forget about it; indeed, we must look to lessons of the past to prevent similar issues in the future. I do think it is time to let Germany be forgiven- even let them forgive themselves.
As to the Holocost, I do not deny it happened, or that it was a horrible event; but you have to admire the press it received. Hardly anyone has heard about Nanking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre I studied WW2, and I only heard of it because I am engaged to a Chinese woman. Germany has hardly been alone in activities that violate our sensibilities. Japan and America are just of guilty of atrocities in the past, and I am sure you can say the same of most cultures if you look closely enough.
***EDIT: Sorry, I plum forgot about Stalin and the communist purges. Just add it to the list.
I doubt the Germans would get away with this.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
No, its´s not banned, You can own it and sell it as long as it is an old original version.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
isnt "mein kampf" banned in germany?
Only thing forbidden is making a reprint of it.
@ Killswitch : We have a lot of Nazi and Hitler comedies and parodies on german TV.
Of course they don´t deal with the Holocaust or similar things but making fun of Hitler himself is pretty pupular in germany.
Most of them are actually pretty funny.
Edit : This is from a famous german comedy show :
Last edited by HellHead (2008-02-27 06:14:06)
original versions of the book can be legally sold/bought via antique book shops, and the possession of the original book is not forbidden. Until 1943, more than 10 Milllion copies of the book had been produced, including non-german versions for the dutch and the french. That's quite a lot for these times.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
isnt "mein kampf" banned in germany?
However, not a lot of original copies remain, mainly because a lot of them were destroyed by their owners after the war had ended, together with other Nazi memorabilia.
Right after the war, it was not a very "popular" book, as you can imagine.
When I was a history student at Cologne University, there were rumors that federal authorities would run background checks on anyone who wanted to get the book from the university library. But I don't know if that's true. I sure never tried it.
With some exceptions for educational purposes, reprints and new editions are banned in germany, that is true, but under dubious legal circumstances. The state of bavaria took over legal ownership of all of Hitler's possessions after the war ( because Munich was Hitler's official place of residence ) and those included the publishing rights to "Mein Kampf". In theory, though, these rights would belong to any of Hitler's children or other relatives, and not be part of his wordly possessions, if you will. German copyright is different in that regard. However, no one challenged Bavaria's decision in court, for obvious reason. Hitler did have relatives, but none of them really cared about the publishing right to "Mein Kampf", I guess.
Interestingly, due to german copyright law, Bavaria will lose any publishing right for "Mein Kampf" on 31-12-2015, 70 years after the author's death ( in this case, Hitler ). What happens then, and who - if anyone - will take these rights, is yet to be determined, although it is likely that they will remain with state or federal authorities.
There are plans by the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary History to publish a commented version of the book after the copyright expires in 2015.
In 2004, 15 publishing houses in Turkey published a turkish translation of "Mein Kampf", selling more than 100,000 copies, which placed the book at #4 of the largest bookdealer's besteller list of 2005. Ironically, the commentary compared the jews to the kurds....
Since then, however, the state of Bavaria has successfully initiated legal action to ban the book from further sales in Turkey.
Comparable lawsuits in scandinavian countries have proven inconclusive though, and the copyright issue remains unsettled on a european scale.
Consequently, there are legal reprints and new editions in other countries around the world, including Israel, the US and Great Britain.
However, since Hitler revised and edited the book quite often between the first print in 1925 and the end of the war in 1945, the "quality" of reprints today depend greatly on the version they are based on.
I never read it, although I might do so one day. But honestly, it's not supposed to be that good. The core text stems from the 1920's when Hitler had only just started out as a political activist, and early commentators have compared the style and phrasing with that of a ten-year-old.
Yeah, great. I graduated in high school in 1991. Think Cold War. Think Duck and Cover. So some silly commie chinese guys got 'kilt' by our Japanese friends (now that they are no longer the 'Jap' enemy.) The Japanese sell us high-tech products; the Chinese are threatening our way of life. High school curriculurii are very different now then when I was in school.SenorToenails wrote:
You didn't learn about the Rape of Nanking from history books? I learned about it in high school...imortal wrote:
I think it can now be considered a part of history. Nazi Germany is past. No one in political power in Germany today had any responsibility for the government and its descisions during the Nazi regime. Like slavery in America, it is time to let it rest. I do not say to forget about it; indeed, we must look to lessons of the past to prevent similar issues in the future. I do think it is time to let Germany be forgiven- even let them forgive themselves.
As to the Holocost, I do not deny it happened, or that it was a horrible event; but you have to admire the press it received. Hardly anyone has heard about Nanking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre I studied WW2, and I only heard of it because I am engaged to a Chinese woman. Germany has hardly been alone in activities that violate our sensibilities. Japan and America are just of guilty of atrocities in the past, and I am sure you can say the same of most cultures if you look closely enough.
***EDIT: Sorry, I plum forgot about Stalin and the communist purges. Just add it to the list.
I watched Iraq invade Kuwait in Basic Training (between my junior and senior years).
I watched the Berlin Wall come down in high school.
I watched the Challenger explode in jr high.
Times were different.
I went to high school in the mid to late 90's and the rape of nanking was a part of taught history. Are you saying that the school books changed in 6 years?
Good for you. I learned about that 8-9 years ago. And the books weren't new.imortal wrote:
Yeah, great. I graduated in high school in 1991. Think Cold War. Think Duck and Cover. So some silly commie chinese guys got 'kilt' by our Japanese friends (now that they are no longer the 'Jap' enemy.) The Japanese sell us high-tech products; the Chinese are threatening our way of life. High school curriculurii are very different now then when I was in school.
I watched Iraq invade Kuwait in Basic Training (between my junior and senior years).
I watched the Berlin Wall come down in high school.
I watched the Challenger explode in jr high.
Times were different.
How could you have studied WW2 and not heard about that event? Unless you only studied the European Theater. In which case, you didn't study the whole war. Either that, or you didn't do very much research.
We didn't cover the war in school too much. And I did do pesonal research, mostly on the European theater (I was a fighter junkie, and hated the pacific theater due to personal resons). I was not bragging; I was demonstrating how school "learnin" is not concrete; what you learn in school changes as time goes on. Some is added, some is taken away. China was very much still a mystery while I was in school. The real drive to understand other cultures took place just as I left high school.SenorToenails wrote:
Good for you. I learned about that 8-9 years ago. And the books weren't new.imortal wrote:
Yeah, great. I graduated in high school in 1991. Think Cold War. Think Duck and Cover. So some silly commie chinese guys got 'kilt' by our Japanese friends (now that they are no longer the 'Jap' enemy.) The Japanese sell us high-tech products; the Chinese are threatening our way of life. High school curriculurii are very different now then when I was in school.
I watched Iraq invade Kuwait in Basic Training (between my junior and senior years).
I watched the Berlin Wall come down in high school.
I watched the Challenger explode in jr high.
Times were different.
How could you have studied WW2 and not heard about that event? Unless you only studied the European Theater. In which case, you didn't study the whole war. Either that, or you didn't do very much research.
Last edited by imortal (2008-02-27 07:41:39)
Never heard of Nanking in school, tbh. I guess our history teachers were too busy hammering the atrocities of Nazi germany in our heads.
Ok, it's not racist, but it's still xenophobic.FEOS wrote:
So please explain just how it's racist that someone born here can't be President?
There are specific reasons for it...ties to foreign countries/governments, for example. However, I do think that someone who is a naturalized citizen who has been a citizen for a minimum of 35 years and has been fully vetted for security should be eligible. But that would require a change to the Constitution.
Regardless, there's nothing racist about it. It doesn't prevent a black guy while allowing a white guy (or vice versa...or <enter race here>). THAT would be racist. It doesn't allow ANYONE who isn't a natural-born American to hold the office, regardless of their race. It's certainly discriminatory (which is neutral)...but it's absolutely NOT racist.
Correction... Germany used to have some issues with xenophobia in its laws.B.Schuss wrote:
well, I don't know where your friend got his information from, but let me tell you that he couldn't be more wrong. I know a lot of immigrants who are german citizens now, and hold german passports. If you have that, then you're a german citizen, wether you were born here or not.
There are no different levels of citizenship in germany. There is only one.
what we do have, are different legal statuses for immigrants who do not yet hold german or EU citizenship. But those can apply for a permanent residency, and after a while, once they have proven that they can support themselves financially, speak german, and fullfill other requirements, they can apply for german citizenship. But we'll certainly reserve the right to give citizenship only to those who qualify.
Nothing racist about that, I'd say. Most nations on the planet have comparable laws about immigration, and naturalization. Some even hold citizenship tests for applicants. If I am informed correctly, the application process in New Zealand even includes a medical check-up, with calculation of BMI and other weird stuff.
"Under previous German law, children born to foreigners in Germany were not entitled to German citizenship (jus sanguinis): a large population of permanently resident non-citizens developed, with the consequence over time that even the third generation born in Germany remained foreigners. As late as 2004, 36 per cent of Turkish citizens living in Germany did not have German nationality despite being born there. In 2000, legislation was passed which conferred German citizenship on the German-born children of foreigners, and the naturalisation process was made easier, though dual citizenship is still not tolerated and any person possessing it by virtue of birth to foreign parents must choose between the ages of 18 and 23 which citizenship she or he wishes to retain, and forfeit the other."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany
I was referring to this sort of thing, but it looks like Germany is working things out now. Kudos
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-02-29 15:48:44)