BF2S Forums Apparently Palestinian Babies Are Now Terrorists

Braddock wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?

I have to agree with JahManRed on this, Germany and Austria should have paid the price on this one and given some of their land to the Zionists. the Palestinians got royally shafted on this one.

It goes back to the promise made to Abraham by God in the Old Testament. That is why only the Levant would suffice for a Jewish homeland.

Not that I agree...only the background on why anyplace else wouldn't work.

Whether people here want to acknowledge it or not...intent is the driver in all this. Hamas and Hezbollah launch rockets with the INTENT of killing civilians. They strap bombs to kids and blow up cafes and buses with the INTENT of killing civilians. When Israel executes a strike, it is with the INTENT of killing the militants, not the civilians. If intent weren't critical to determining the right or wrong of something, then there would be no differentiation between first degree murder and manslaughter. Both involve a homicide, but only one is intentional.

And those who have said the US targets civilians needs to bone up on the Law Of Armed Conflict and Standing Rules of Engagement. I can't speak for Israeli military members, but US military members put their own lives at risk to minimize civilian casualties. And it's not just because those are the rules they are given to operate by...it's also the right thing to do.

It was never their land, before the British controlled it, the Turks where in charge. And before them a shit load of other empires.
True, they have been there a while and where the majority, but only because the Jews where scattered by the Romans all over the world.
The Palestinian people have never been in charge of Israel, never. On the other hand the Jews where in charge for several hundred years before the Babylonians or whatever occupied it.

And the UN gave them a really nice slice of Israel, they could have created a very nice country.But they refused it and decided they should have the whole land.

Shadowolf wrote:

It was never their land, before the British controlled it, the Turks where in charge. And before them a shit load of other empires.
True, they have been there a while and where the majority, but only because the Jews where scattered by the Romans all over the world.
The Palestinian people have never been in charge of Israel, never. On the other hand the Jews where in charge for several hundred years before the Babylonians or whatever occupied it.

And the UN gave them a really nice slice of Israel, they could have created a very nice country.But they refused it and decided they should have the whole land.

Do we only recognize those who officially control the land politically? Does the Palestinian presence count for nothing as long as the British and Turks control it? Don't worry about teaching me about the history- I'm a history major. But when I say it is the land of the Palestinians, it is their land because they lived there. They, as a people, inhabited the land and it was theirs for that reason. Their imperial masters never did right for them, and to introduce immigrants who would buy land and then separate it from Palestine was wrong.

Whether the Jews had political control of the land centuries past is completely irrelevant, as is any historical claim to land. The only thing that matters is the present, and what is happening now. The excuse that it was "because the Jews where [sic] scattered by the Romans all over the world" has no basis not only because that is a terrible excuse but also that it is only historically relevant, and not to anything today.

The UN gave the Palestinians a "really nice slice of Israel"? On the other hand, I would think that the UN and Great Britain gave the Jews a very nice slice of Palestine, without the consultation of the Palestinians. They refused that their land could be taken and given to another country. They did not refuse land being given to them- It already belonged to them!

Having said that, in accordance with my stance of historical irrelevancy, I would say that the current situation in Canaan demands a far more complex solution. Those Israelis who are now inhabiting the land are not immigrants, but people who have lived for two or three generations there. It is their home now as any Palestinian has his or her home in Canaan. It would be unfair to demand that they leave, as it would be to ask an American to leave because of the past. Regardless of the past, it is their home now and we must find a solution that accepts that.

M.O.A.B wrote:

They're retaliating to missiles being fired at them, so they have the right to fire back in defence. The only reason collateral damage occurs is because the people they're firing at hide in civilian areas.

Prove that the rockets being fired aren't in retalliation to Israeli attacks.

PureFodder wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

They're retaliating to missiles being fired at them, so they have the right to fire back in defence. The only reason collateral damage occurs is because the people they're firing at hide in civilian areas.

Prove that the rockets being fired aren't in retalliation to Israeli attacks.

The Israeli's were trying to move for the rockets to stop being fired, they kept firing, Israel retaliates.

Kmarion wrote:

Maybe it is you who should be exercising a little more discretion when being force fed your opinion on American sentiment.

QFE

Funny braddock that you do not seem as offended or disgusted when they use children and train children as suicide bombers.  So the fact is, you are only outraged if Israel does it.

M.O.A.B wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

They're retaliating to missiles being fired at them, so they have the right to fire back in defence. The only reason collateral damage occurs is because the people they're firing at hide in civilian areas.

Prove that the rockets being fired aren't in retalliation to Israeli attacks.

The Israeli's were trying to move for the rockets to stop being fired, they kept firing, Israel retaliates.

Palestinians are firing rockets in retalliation to the endless violence inflicted on the Palestinians. This single attack by Israel killed more people than all the rockets fired at Israel from Gaza.

PureFodder wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Prove that the rockets being fired aren't in retalliation to Israeli attacks.

The Israeli's were trying to move for the rockets to stop being fired, they kept firing, Israel retaliates.

Palestinians are firing rockets in retalliation to the endless violence inflicted on the Palestinians. This single attack by Israel killed more people than all the rockets fired at Israel from Gaza.

So the Israelis target Palestinian civilians because...?

SgtHeihn wrote:

Braddock wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?

I have to agree with JahManRed on this, Germany and Austria should have paid the price on this one and given some of their land to the Zionists. the Palestinians got royally shafted on this one.

It would not have made sense to put them in Germany. It would have still been to fresh for a lot of the camp survivors and the world.

Plus, Palestine was the historic land of the Jews during biblical times and they were forced out. Granted they have a heavy hand, but the Palestinians have caused a lot of their own problems. Israel is working the Palestinian elected government in the west bank. If Hamas strong men wouldn't have violently seized Gaza, we would not be reading about this.

Pay even more? Are you kidding me? I mean, I hate the position of Israel as it is now, but taking even more from the Germans can't result in anything good.

-konfusion

Wow....we cant get off the same old "who's first" bullshit in these forums. Let's just make it plain and simple.

The Israelis are going no where and they are going to fight for what they believe is their rightful land. The Palestinians are going no where and they will fight for what they believe is their land. So if both sides are going to fight for this peace of dirt, then there is going to be bloodshed on both sides. In fact, many people and religions claim the right to this area and generations have fought to make it one rule or another. I don't see it stopping any time soon.

People need to quit getting hung up on one incident because this stuff is happening everyday on both sides. There are plans being made on both sides to kill this guy or kidnap that guy or lob a missile here or blow yourself up there or missile strike on this leader or that mortar emplacement and on and on and on and on. Bickering here about who does what and who did what first is a joke and makes you guys sound like a bunch of kids on a playground pointing fingers on who pushed who. It's ridiculous.

Killing and the death of innocence will continue as long as both keep sides keep their heads up theirs asses. I will say this, if Israel didn't have some type of tolerance then they would roll in a completely wipe them out. It would be very easy for them to just wipe the slate...Literally...by military means and not have to deal with it any more. But they don't and Israel has the right to defend itself. Now on the Palestinian side, they also have the right to exist and under better conditions but sooner or later they are going to have to clean their own house. They need for Hamas and Hezbollah to stop what they do and allow the real Palestinian cause to get back to the negotiation table. Israel will never stop if missiles keep falling on them. The vicious cycle will just continue as it has for hundreds of years.

The bottom line is this.....I dont care what happened 2,000 years ago. The situation NOW is that you have two sides fighting over what they believe is their land. Its not going to change unless Palestinians clean out the cancer of the extremism and until Israel feels safe enough to come to the table. Sooner or later they just need to do the right thing and make a FAIR agreement so this nonsense can stop. You see, the same stuff that happens in these forums is the same problem this area of the world has.....pointing fingers, the same damn argument over and over and we get the same cycle over and over. Does this bullshit change anything? Nope and it won't until people take off their tunnel vision glasses and open their eyes to the overall problems both sides have. Negotiation doesn't hurt anyone and doesnt hurt to try but how and when...who knows. But thanks to the people in these forums for showing the rest of us why people just cant get along.

Braddock wrote:

Four Palestinian children have been killed in an Israeli air strike in the northern Gaza Strip, local medics say.

Now before you starting flaming this for being 'yet another Israel thread' just tell me how this can be condoned, justified or tolerated in any way shape or form and please explain to me how you expect the mother/father/brother/sister of these murdered children not to hold any ill will towards the Israeli regime after such an act.

I have to listen to so much shit on the TV about 'Muslim extremists' and 'insurgents' and the 'war on terror' every day while countries like Israel go around murdering babies and calling it 'collateral damage'. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the initial Palestinian rocket attacks if Israel want to be considered as anything other than terrorist scumbags by the rest of the planet then this shit has to stop.

How? Simple...
Pali terrorist: Let me borrow your car Im going somewhere.
Mother/Father: I don't want to but OK
Pali Terrorist: By the way put your kids in the car, OK
Mother/Father:No way!
Pali Terrorist: Do it. I need a shield and if I die your baby will be a martyr and go to Allah,LILILILILILI!!!
Mother/Father: Well in that case, go ahead, praise be allah!!

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Plus Palestinian attacks are in part in response for being forced into living in aparetheid conditions in the worlds largest and most overcrowded prison and having basic human rights denied on a day to day basis.

Oh give me a fucking break. That is an excuse for intentionally targeting Israeli civilians? Sorry, but that just doesn't fly. I'd be more understanding if they targeted IDF, being the one that enforces these conditions on them, or the politicians that call the shots. That's called resistance.

But shooting rockets on a town, a purely civilian target, is just pathetic. I think it's called terrorism. You know, the blowing oneself up in a nightclub type of activity?

PureFodder wrote:

Palestinians are not subjecting Israeli citizens to a 40 year brutal military occupation.

No, just a terror campaign? Only 14 years, I guess it doesn't count...

Don't get me wrong, Israelis are no angels, but that does not excuse terrorist attacks. As for original post, I guess it all boils down to who you believe. Do you believe IDF intentionally targetted those kids, or were they at the wrong time at the wrong place? Or were they there for some other reason?

/devil's advocate

Over the last 4 months there have been 4 Israeli casualties and 200 Palestinian casualties. Who's mounting the terror campaign?

The Guardian wrote:

Gaza’s border closures are without precedent. Palestinians are effectively incarcerated. The overwhelming majority cannot leave or enter Gaza. Without fuel and spare parts, public health conditions are declining steeply as water and sanitation services struggle to function. The electricity supply is sporadic and has been reduced further along with fuel supply in these past days. Unicef reports that the partial functioning of Gaza City’s main pumping station is affecting the supply of safe water to some 600,000 Palestinians.

Medication is in short supply, and hospitals are paralysed by power failures and the shortage of fuel for generators. Hospital infrastructure and essential pieces of equipment are breaking down at an alarming rate, with limited possibility of repair or maintenance as spare parts are not available.

It is distressing to see the impact of closures on patients who need to travel outside Gaza to get medical treatment. The demand for such treatment is rising as medical standards fall inside Gaza, yet the permit regime for medical referrals has become more stringent. Many have had their treatment delayed or denied, worsening their medical conditions and causing preventable deaths.

Living standards in Gaza are at levels unacceptable to a world that promotes the elimination of poverty and the observance of human rights as core principles: 35% of Gazans live on less than two dollars a day; unemployment stands at around 50%; and 80% of Gazans receive some form of humanitarian assistance. Concrete is in such short supply that people are unable to make graves for their dead. Hospitals are handing out sheets as funeral shrouds.

As the head of a humanitarian and human development agency for Palestinian refugees, I am deeply concerned by the stark inhumanity of Gaza’s closure. I am disturbed by the seeming indifference of much of the world as hundreds and thousands of Palestinians are harshly penalised for acts in which they have no part.

I don't think the IDF are targeting civillians, I think they aren't that bothered if tens of civillians get killed when they conduct attacks. If they cared much they'd not be killing vastly more civillians than the Palestinians are. They won't carpet bomb Gaza obviously because the outrage from the world and specifically the US populace would put the billions of dollars of aid they recieve each year in jepardy.

Isreal certainly is inflicting amazing amounts of suffering and needless deaths upon the civillian Palestinian populace.