they should not go to prison, alternative punitive measures should be taken. prisons are already over crowded and it costs around $70 000 a year to house a prisoner. that is 70 000 of YOUR money. the tax payers money. america has THE highest rate of incareceration in the world. and that is because of drug offenders, and guess what? its not working. drug crimes are not going down. alternative methods need to be sought out.
Poll
Should Drug Addicts Go to Jail?
| Yes, they are breaking the law | 27% | 27% - 37 | ||||
| Only after being to rehab and being caught again | 27% | 27% - 37 | ||||
| No, they are sick and jail would make things even worse | 33% | 33% - 45 | ||||
| Other | 11% | 11% - 16 | ||||
| Total: 135 | ||||||
What about people that get addicted to prescription drugs? There were countless housewives that were prescribed morphine as a pain medication back before society really understood addiction. My grandmother was more or less addicted to morphine as a result of these kinds of prescriptions, and there are several cases where people even become dependent on prescription drugs today.lowing wrote:
Easy, they forfeited their "right to be ok" on their own free will. I have little time or sympathy for anyone that CHOOSES to do drugs.
My efforts and attention are better spent on those people who have a "sickness" not of the own free will. Cancer, Cystic Fibrosis, AIDS, etc..
Drug use is a choice, and that choice is made before an addiction is born. I will also tell you that the second I found out my friends were into drugs, I would have found new friends. As a matter of fact, I have done exactly that.
So really, are you saying these people should also be thrown aside because of their choice to do drugs that doctors prescribe them? Secondly, do you regard those who are addicted to alcohol and those who are addicted to cocaine the same?
I don't see them as often as I used to. And besides, they all are married and with kids too now. They used to do drugs, except for one who is a real addict. I won't let them talk about that in front of my kid of course.lowing wrote:
You have a new son, are you really going to let him around drug users?sergeriver wrote:
Only one of them was a real addict, the rest of them used drugs occasionally and in the weekends to party. The one who was addicted to cocaine, wasn't a close friend though.lowing wrote:
Only a coupla possibilities here serge if you were not affected by his addiction
1. You are not that important of a friend,
2. He doesn't have an addiction
Turquoise, you know there is a difference between a person who is prescribed pain medication and inadvertently grows a dependency to it and someone that makes a decision to shoot heroin into their arm. If you do not know the difference then I can't help ya.Turquoise wrote:
What about people that get addicted to prescription drugs? There were countless housewives that were prescribed morphine as a pain medication back before society really understood addiction. My grandmother was more or less addicted to morphine as a result of these kinds of prescriptions, and there are several cases where people even become dependent on prescription drugs today.lowing wrote:
Easy, they forfeited their "right to be ok" on their own free will. I have little time or sympathy for anyone that CHOOSES to do drugs.
My efforts and attention are better spent on those people who have a "sickness" not of the own free will. Cancer, Cystic Fibrosis, AIDS, etc..
Drug use is a choice, and that choice is made before an addiction is born. I will also tell you that the second I found out my friends were into drugs, I would have found new friends. As a matter of fact, I have done exactly that.
So really, are you saying these people should also be thrown aside because of their choice to do drugs that doctors prescribe them? Secondly, do you regard those who are addicted to alcohol and those who are addicted to cocaine the same?
Yes, alcoholic are in the same boat. It is a complete lack of responsibility that lets someone drink so much and so often that they become alcoholics. If there is one difference between the 2 it is that at least alcohol is legal.
I absolutely agree.lowing wrote:
I say make it legal, let people make their choices and let them live or die by them.
It's up to people to be responsible for the lifestyle choices they make, not have them pushed upon them by the government. They may not be particularly good choices, but they should get to make them themselves.
Also you are removing a dodgy black market and removing a massive source of revenue for criminals, which funds bad stuff. It would also make drugs far safer for the users.
You could tax the fuck out of it too. Put money into the community, rather than spending the communities money trying to prevent it, which is futile.
and I will be a crackhead will pay ANYTHING in taxes to get his fix.........So, at least the crackheads can finally do something to give back to society.Bertster7 wrote:
I absolutely agree.lowing wrote:
I say make it legal, let people make their choices and let them live or die by them.
It's up to people to be responsible for the lifestyle choices they make, not have them pushed upon them by the government. They may not be particularly good choices, but they should get to make them themselves.
Also you are removing a dodgy black market and removing a massive source of revenue for criminals, which funds bad stuff. It would also make drugs far safer for the users.
You could tax the fuck out of it too. Put money into the community, rather than spending the communities money trying to prevent it, which is futile.
Exactly.lowing wrote:
and I will be a crackhead will pay ANYTHING in taxes to get his fix.........So, at least the crackheads can finally do something to give back to society.Bertster7 wrote:
I absolutely agree.lowing wrote:
I say make it legal, let people make their choices and let them live or die by them.
It's up to people to be responsible for the lifestyle choices they make, not have them pushed upon them by the government. They may not be particularly good choices, but they should get to make them themselves.
Also you are removing a dodgy black market and removing a massive source of revenue for criminals, which funds bad stuff. It would also make drugs far safer for the users.
You could tax the fuck out of it too. Put money into the community, rather than spending the communities money trying to prevent it, which is futile.
i voted other, because i think i depends on what drug. marijuana isn't that bad so i don't think that needs jail time but for some of the stronger drugs out there i do think they should.
Good, then you should support rehabs, because they help people with prescription dependencies as well.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, you know there is a difference between a person who is prescribed pain medication and inadvertently grows a dependency to it and someone that makes a decision to shoot heroin into their arm. If you do not know the difference then I can't help ya.
Yes, alcoholic are in the same boat. It is a complete lack of responsibility that lets someone drink so much and so often that they become alcoholics. If there is one difference between the 2 it is that at least alcohol is legal.
Lowing: This is want I don't get with you - you want legalisation, yet you would rather preach an anti-drug message than to educate all our kids about the true pros, cons, risks and rewards of both drug use AND abuse.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly.lowing wrote:
and I will be a crackhead will pay ANYTHING in taxes to get his fix.........So, at least the crackheads can finally do something to give back to society.Bertster7 wrote:
I absolutely agree.
It's up to people to be responsible for the lifestyle choices they make, not have them pushed upon them by the government. They may not be particularly good choices, but they should get to make them themselves.
Also you are removing a dodgy black market and removing a massive source of revenue for criminals, which funds bad stuff. It would also make drugs far safer for the users.
You could tax the fuck out of it too. Put money into the community, rather than spending the communities money trying to prevent it, which is futile.
I do not think I said I do not support rehab centers, I think I said I do not support rehabbing drug addicts. I pretty much thought we all understood what was meant by a drug addict since it was crackheads and coke heads that we had been talking about all day.Turquoise wrote:
Good, then you should support rehabs, because they help people with prescription dependencies as well.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, you know there is a difference between a person who is prescribed pain medication and inadvertently grows a dependency to it and someone that makes a decision to shoot heroin into their arm. If you do not know the difference then I can't help ya.
Yes, alcoholic are in the same boat. It is a complete lack of responsibility that lets someone drink so much and so often that they become alcoholics. If there is one difference between the 2 it is that at least alcohol is legal.
No for just takin the drugs, but as soon as there is any evidence of other crimes to pay for drugs, or hurting others.... lock them up
Did you say, "rewards" and "pros" in reference to drug use?? This is why talking to you is a waste of time for me. There are no "pros" or "rewards" to snorting cocaine or smoking crystal meth. To suggest such a thing is absurd. If you are going to talk about drug use and abuse, there is only one angle to approach it, and that is from the negative.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Lowing: This is want I don't get with you - you want legalisation, yet you would rather preach an anti-drug message than to educate all our kids about the true pros, cons, risks and rewards of both drug use AND abuse.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly.lowing wrote:
and I will be a crackhead will pay ANYTHING in taxes to get his fix.........So, at least the crackheads can finally do something to give back to society.
Yes. I am refering to 'drugs' in the whole and there are benefits to be had from many drugs. There are also many drugs that will cause sever damage if abused.lowing wrote:
Did you say, "rewards" and "pros" in reference to drug use?? This is why talking to you is a waste of time for me. There are no "pros" or "rewards" to snorting cocaine or smoking crystal meth. To suggest such a thing is absurd. If you are going to talk about drug use and abuse, there is only one angle to approach it, and that is from the negative.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Lowing: This is want I don't get with you - you want legalisation, yet you would rather preach an anti-drug message than to educate all our kids about the true pros, cons, risks and rewards of both drug use AND abuse.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly.
Are you stupid?
There are more drugs per capita in prison then outside, so what do you think would happen?
There are more drugs per capita in prison then outside, so what do you think would happen?
Come on man, you must recognise there are certain benefits to taking drugs. If there wasn't it would be a pointless hobby done by all of 0 people...lowing wrote:
Did you say, "rewards" and "pros" in reference to drug use.
Oh I see, so now you are pinning the benefits from an antibiotics to that of shooting up heroin.. I see....Once again you know damn well what I mean and I am tired of your word games.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes. I am refering to 'drugs' in the whole and there are benefits to be had from many drugs. There are also many drugs that will cause sever damage if abused.lowing wrote:
Did you say, "rewards" and "pros" in reference to drug use?? This is why talking to you is a waste of time for me. There are no "pros" or "rewards" to snorting cocaine or smoking crystal meth. To suggest such a thing is absurd. If you are going to talk about drug use and abuse, there is only one angle to approach it, and that is from the negative.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Lowing: This is want I don't get with you - you want legalisation, yet you would rather preach an anti-drug message than to educate all our kids about the true pros, cons, risks and rewards of both drug use AND abuse.
Opiates have their uses.lowing wrote:
Oh I see, so now you are pinning the benefits from an antibiotics to that of shooting up heroin.. I see....Once again you know damn well what I mean and I am tired of your word games.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes. I am refering to 'drugs' in the whole and there are benefits to be had from many drugs. There are also many drugs that will cause sever damage if abused.lowing wrote:
Did you say, "rewards" and "pros" in reference to drug use?? This is why talking to you is a waste of time for me. There are no "pros" or "rewards" to snorting cocaine or smoking crystal meth. To suggest such a thing is absurd. If you are going to talk about drug use and abuse, there is only one angle to approach it, and that is from the negative.
Would you want to recover from major surgery without opiates?
Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-03-01 16:22:55)
Ok, here's a story for all of you guys to judge.
Three years ago, there was this kid in high school. He was out working and going to high school part-time. He was put into the special-ed class at high school, and was failing. His Mom could not control him, argued all the time, and was going to kick him out.
His aunt and uncle, which my wife and I pal around with decided to take him in. They brought him to the store, because he had no toiletries, and asked him what he needed. He said he was fine, and said he didn't have any money. So they found out that the only thing his Mom gave him was food, everything else he had to buy himself. So if he wanted a pair of jeans, he'd buy them second hand. If he wanted toothpaste, he'd have to buy it himself. So instead, this couple paid for the stuff, and got him some new clothes.
On the first day of school, entering as a sophmore in highschool, they were going to put him into special ed again. The aunt goes down to the school and says absolutely not. So he goes to regular classes. He joins the football team, and becomes a starter. At the end of the term, he gets his grades - all A's and one B. So the uncle goes out and buys a used Bronco with massive monster truck tires (yep...Texas). Total cost: $3000.
The Mom visits constantly, their relationship is better. She's kind of jealous because my friends are providing for this kid, and he goes from an almost drop out to at least a shot at college. She doesn't offer to pay her brother back for any of these expenses, nor do they ask to be reimbursed. Next semester = all A's except math = C.
The aunt and uncle begin to encourage him to get his math up. The kid says he wants to start his own building contracting business after high school, and the uncle agrees to invest when the time comes. First semester junior grades: all C's. He comes home drunk one night, and the uncle grounds him for a weekend. A month goes by and then the kid says he wants to move back in with his Mom. They send him home, but continue to go to the football games and hang out with him whenever possible.
A month later, the kid gets arrested for pot. The judge goes easy on him and sends him to a month-long rehab clinic. He gets caught doing meth while in rehab. Back in front of the judge again. Judge is livid, but decides to give him one more shot. Back to rehab, with the condition if he fucks up this time = jail.
So he breaks out. He's a fugitive for about a month, living on the street. He and a friend are hanging out in front of a Taco Cabana, and the cops ask them what they are up to. So they jump in a car. Car chase with a spectacular ending.
So he's in jail. Since he's so young, he ends up on the bottom rung of the jail fraternity. The uncle visits him just before Christmas, he asks if there's anything he wants for Christmas. He asks for a newspaper subscription. Apparently if you get a subscription while your in jail, your status increases. So he's no longer on the bottom rung anymore.
So this kid, who would have had the opportunity to have his own business...well, he's getting out in about a year and half. I've met the kid. He's normal. He knew the dangers. He probably rationalized it the same way as we see in this thread. What a waste.
Three years ago, there was this kid in high school. He was out working and going to high school part-time. He was put into the special-ed class at high school, and was failing. His Mom could not control him, argued all the time, and was going to kick him out.
His aunt and uncle, which my wife and I pal around with decided to take him in. They brought him to the store, because he had no toiletries, and asked him what he needed. He said he was fine, and said he didn't have any money. So they found out that the only thing his Mom gave him was food, everything else he had to buy himself. So if he wanted a pair of jeans, he'd buy them second hand. If he wanted toothpaste, he'd have to buy it himself. So instead, this couple paid for the stuff, and got him some new clothes.
On the first day of school, entering as a sophmore in highschool, they were going to put him into special ed again. The aunt goes down to the school and says absolutely not. So he goes to regular classes. He joins the football team, and becomes a starter. At the end of the term, he gets his grades - all A's and one B. So the uncle goes out and buys a used Bronco with massive monster truck tires (yep...Texas). Total cost: $3000.
The Mom visits constantly, their relationship is better. She's kind of jealous because my friends are providing for this kid, and he goes from an almost drop out to at least a shot at college. She doesn't offer to pay her brother back for any of these expenses, nor do they ask to be reimbursed. Next semester = all A's except math = C.
The aunt and uncle begin to encourage him to get his math up. The kid says he wants to start his own building contracting business after high school, and the uncle agrees to invest when the time comes. First semester junior grades: all C's. He comes home drunk one night, and the uncle grounds him for a weekend. A month goes by and then the kid says he wants to move back in with his Mom. They send him home, but continue to go to the football games and hang out with him whenever possible.
A month later, the kid gets arrested for pot. The judge goes easy on him and sends him to a month-long rehab clinic. He gets caught doing meth while in rehab. Back in front of the judge again. Judge is livid, but decides to give him one more shot. Back to rehab, with the condition if he fucks up this time = jail.
So he breaks out. He's a fugitive for about a month, living on the street. He and a friend are hanging out in front of a Taco Cabana, and the cops ask them what they are up to. So they jump in a car. Car chase with a spectacular ending.
So he's in jail. Since he's so young, he ends up on the bottom rung of the jail fraternity. The uncle visits him just before Christmas, he asks if there's anything he wants for Christmas. He asks for a newspaper subscription. Apparently if you get a subscription while your in jail, your status increases. So he's no longer on the bottom rung anymore.
So this kid, who would have had the opportunity to have his own business...well, he's getting out in about a year and half. I've met the kid. He's normal. He knew the dangers. He probably rationalized it the same way as we see in this thread. What a waste.
You damn well know, drugs administered by doctors IS NOT what the fuck we are talking about. We are talking about drug addicts. Not some mother fucker who is medicated after having his tonsils taken out is not the spirit of the OP.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Opiates have their uses.lowing wrote:
Oh I see, so now you are pinning the benefits from an antibiotics to that of shooting up heroin.. I see....Once again you know damn well what I mean and I am tired of your word games.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes. I am refering to 'drugs' in the whole and there are benefits to be had from many drugs. There are also many drugs that will cause sever damage if abused.
Would you want to recover from major surgery without opiates?
Stop trying to back peddle against your previous statements regarding illegal drug use is akin to fucking driving a car. You are now looking quite desperate.
Last edited by lowing (2008-03-01 17:53:02)
I'm not back peddling, merely illustrating my point - opiates are useful for controlling pain.lowing wrote:
You damn well know, drugs administered by doctors IS NOT what the fuck we are talking about. We are talking about drug addicts. Not some mother fucker who is medicated after having his tonsils taken out is not the spirit of the OP.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Opiates have their uses.lowing wrote:
Oh I see, so now you are pinning the benefits from an antibiotics to that of shooting up heroin.. I see....Once again you know damn well what I mean and I am tired of your word games.
Would you want to recover from major surgery without opiates?
Stop trying to back peddle against your previous statements regarding illegal drug use is akin to fucking driving a car. You are now looking quite desperate.
Heroin, an illegal drug, is an opiate.
Another illegal drug that can be, and is, used to control pain is marijuana.
You seem to think that all illegal drugs are pure evil just because they are illegal.
I am pointing out that most illegal drugs do have some good uses.
Another example is LSD - this has been shown to be useful in psychiatric therapy.
Yes, but we are talking about drug addicts. We aren't talking about prescriptions.
So the drug they are addicted to matters?lowing wrote:
I do not think I said I do not support rehab centers, I think I said I do not support rehabbing drug addicts. I pretty much thought we all understood what was meant by a drug addict since it was crackheads and coke heads that we had been talking about all day.Turquoise wrote:
Good, then you should support rehabs, because they help people with prescription dependencies as well.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, you know there is a difference between a person who is prescribed pain medication and inadvertently grows a dependency to it and someone that makes a decision to shoot heroin into their arm. If you do not know the difference then I can't help ya.
Yes, alcoholic are in the same boat. It is a complete lack of responsibility that lets someone drink so much and so often that they become alcoholics. If there is one difference between the 2 it is that at least alcohol is legal.
Since when are we talking about a prescribed drug administered under the care of a doctor? You are back peddling, and everyone that has kept up with this exchange knows it.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I'm not back peddling, merely illustrating my point - opiates are useful for controlling pain.lowing wrote:
You damn well know, drugs administered by doctors IS NOT what the fuck we are talking about. We are talking about drug addicts. Not some mother fucker who is medicated after having his tonsils taken out is not the spirit of the OP.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Opiates have their uses.
Would you want to recover from major surgery without opiates?
Stop trying to back peddle against your previous statements regarding illegal drug use is akin to fucking driving a car. You are now looking quite desperate.
Heroin, an illegal drug, is an opiate.
Another illegal drug that can be, and is, used to control pain is marijuana.
You seem to think that all illegal drugs are pure evil just because they are illegal.
I am pointing out that most illegal drugs do have some good uses.
Another example is LSD - this has been shown to be useful in psychiatric therapy.
Also, unless you are all of a sudden a doctor treating your kids ailments, you said you will teach your children how to use drugs safely. This IS drug abuse and you endorse it. This makes you the biggest dip shit in this forum. Congrats!
Not to mention the fact that the government actually developed LSD for interrogation purposes.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I'm not back peddling, merely illustrating my point - opiates are useful for controlling pain.
Heroin, an illegal drug, is an opiate.
Another illegal drug that can be, and is, used to control pain is marijuana.
You seem to think that all illegal drugs are pure evil just because they are illegal.
I am pointing out that most illegal drugs do have some good uses.
Another example is LSD - this has been shown to be useful in psychiatric therapy.
Half the time, the government is responsible for creating drugs that later become illegal.