Poll

Should Drug Addicts Go to Jail?

Yes, they are breaking the law27%27% - 37
Only after being to rehab and being caught again27%27% - 37
No, they are sick and jail would make things even worse33%33% - 45
Other11%11% - 16
Total: 135
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7079|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Here are some of the relevent quotes. Not your edited version. There are more, but I don't want to end up requoting the whole thread - start with what we have here, then I leave it as an exercise for the reader to continue my 'clues'...
You are trying to disquise and cover what what you said. In an endless barrage of quotes.

The fact is you said drug abuse and its destructiveness is akin to driving a fucking car that ends up in an accident. Everyone else knows that this is a a wacked out bullshit comparison, except you. Asa matter of fact, your insistence that it compares, PROVES my point that drugs fuck you up.

This is the last post I will write in response to you regarding this absurdity of yours. You have the last word.

Last edited by lowing (2008-03-02 08:43:45)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|7079|USA

DesertFox- wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Wow, how is the third poll option doing so well? The only "sickness" they have is breaking the psychological and phsyiological dependence they have on drugs because they broke the law so many times in the past and didn't get caught.
Once you become addicted you are sick.  Jail won't help you.
Yet another reason not to do drugs, because in the current state of correctional facilities...
and obviously a reason not to drive a fucking car.....Cuz it is the same thing fuckin dip shit
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7112|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Once you become addicted you are sick.  Jail won't help you.
Yet another reason not to do drugs, because in the current state of correctional facilities...
You and me can realize that, but what about addicts who are sick people and dependant on drugs.  They can't.
Well, you know me; I'm stubborn. To me, that's evidence of a lack of foresight and lack of appreciation for the power of the human mind and body. I said somewhere else that I could feel sorry only for addicts who somehow weren't making a conscious decision themselves to do it or were for whatever reason forced to. For me, it's an overwhelmingly easy decision to not use street drugs, alcohol, tobacco or anything like that (even if I lived somewhere where it was much more prevalent) because of the knowledge I have gained, plus I don't want to let crap mess with my mind.* I'm starting to sound like a parent of a teenager, but it's pretty much an "I told you so" instance when it comes to drugs. There's enough sources of information out there that a person has only themself to blame for what they choose to do.

* I am aware that other things that are totally innocuous have an effect on one's mind and body as well, so don't bother pointing that out as this is a different issue
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7193|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Here are some of the relevent quotes. Not your edited version. There are more, but I don't want to end up requoting the whole thread - start with what we have here, then I leave it as an exercise for the reader to continue my 'clues'...
You are trying to disquise and cover what what you said. In an endless barrage of quotes.

The fact is you said drug abuse and its destructiveness is akin to driving a fucking car that ends up in an accident. Everyone else knows that this is a a wacked out bullshit comparison, except you. Asa matter of fact, your insistence that it compares, PROVES my point that drugs fuck you up.

This is the last post I will write in response to you regarding this absurdity of yours. You have the last word.
The equivalence lies in the fact that either course of action has inherent dangers. Dangers we can never remove and should be aware of before embarking on either journey.

If you don't want to continue this strand of the conversation, fine, don't - again it just goes to show you have no argument - I am quite happy to continue - because I can.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7185|Argentina

DesertFox- wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:


Yet another reason not to do drugs, because in the current state of correctional facilities...
You and me can realize that, but what about addicts who are sick people and dependant on drugs.  They can't.
Well, you know me; I'm stubborn. To me, that's evidence of a lack of foresight and lack of appreciation for the power of the human mind and body. I said somewhere else that I could feel sorry only for addicts who somehow weren't making a conscious decision themselves to do it or were for whatever reason forced to. For me, it's an overwhelmingly easy decision to not use street drugs, alcohol, tobacco or anything like that (even if I lived somewhere where it was much more prevalent) because of the knowledge I have gained, plus I don't want to let crap mess with my mind.* I'm starting to sound like a parent of a teenager, but it's pretty much an "I told you so" instance when it comes to drugs. There's enough sources of information out there that a person has only themself to blame for what they choose to do.

* I am aware that other things that are totally innocuous have an effect on one's mind and body as well, so don't bother pointing that out as this is a different issue
Again, for you and me it's an easy choice to stay away from them, for many people it isn't.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7193|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Once you become addicted you are sick.  Jail won't help you.
Yet another reason not to do drugs, because in the current state of correctional facilities...
and obviously a reason not to drive a fucking car.....Cuz it is the same thing fuckin dip shit
Aah, yet more ad hominem attacks - the last resort of those unable to formulate a coherent argument.

And, I thought you weren't going to continue this strand of the conversation? Again, if you don't want to, then don't.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6970|Texas - Bigger than France

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Why?

Because I can seperate out what I do from what I think.

There are many situations where an adult will tell a child to do one thing whilst the adult routinely does the opposite - the adult is educated and is making an informed choice - he may well know what he his is dangerous - that's why he tells the child not to - but he still does it himself.
Well, make sure you tell them about my brother=in-law.  Recently he was caught by wife smoking pot.  So she delivered divorce papers.  The court will now only allow him to see his kids during monitored visits, although the first draft of the settlement papers was that he would not be allowed to see them at all.

Scorp wrote:

Yes. No. It isn't a secret. I couldn't care less if people think that.
So you don't care what people think about you?  Absurb.  At some level it is inconvenient.

Okay, so I googled some stuff.  Of course this will not be relevant, because I'm sure there is absolutely no way you'll believe these points, or you will be yourself to be the exception.

Common facts thrown around.  I'm not going to worry about if it's biased, etc, because I know that just as some people study how drugs are bad, there's studies on how they are good and/or the study was bs in this case.  But here's the list:

1) Pot is a gateway drug to other more dangerous drugs

2) The more frequent the individual uses drugs, it becomes easier to become addicted, because the frequency of use usually increases over time, due to increased tolerance and acceptability (it becomes easier to do it again and again).

3) An experiment: a man in white coat, a man next to a dial, a guy with electric wires attached to him, and a subject.  The subject was to push the button, delivering an electrical shock to the "victim" whenever an incorrect response was given.  There was no shock, but the victim was an actor told to gradually give out louder and louder reactions to pain as the experiment went along.  The guy with the dial would increase the "shock" after every incorrect answer.  The guy in the white coat would encourage the subject there was nothing wrong and everything was controlled or ok.  Findings: 95% of the subjects pressed the button all the way to the end of the test, even though the subject was feigning unconsciousness.  Reason for behavior: people will follow the directions of an authority figure, also there's a "repetitive threshold", where it gets easier and easier to press the button because they have press it before.

4) Drug use increases the chances of: health and mental problems, involvement in illegal activities beyond using, increased likelihood of death

5) If parents have favorable attitudes towards drug use or use drugs themselves, often their children will be more likely to abuse drugs.

6) Drug users have lower earnings potential.

7) Roughly 10% of drug users get addicted.

Of course, I'm sure this won't happen in your situation, because unlike all of the above, you're different...although I find it hard to argue that you'll be increasing the chances of problems.

The fact is most parents don't increase the chances of problems within their kids.  Your hoping to be the exception.  I hope it works out for you.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7189

Maybe we should just take them out back and shoot them.

/wins war on drugs
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7185|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

Maybe we should just take them out back and shoot them.

/wins war on drugs
Do you drink beer?  If so, how much?  Do you drive under influence?  Just curious.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7049|London, England

usmarine wrote:

Maybe we should just take them out back and shoot them.

/wins war on drugs
That's what the Taliban did, and the Opium production plummted. And then 9/11 happens, we invade. Opium production goes through the roof, Heroine addicts rejoice

It's an ironic story...
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7189

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Maybe we should just take them out back and shoot them.

/wins war on drugs
Do you drink beer?  If so, how much?  Do you drive under influence?  Just curious.
The fuck does that have to do with anything?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7185|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Maybe we should just take them out back and shoot them.

/wins war on drugs
Do you drink beer?  If so, how much?  Do you drive under influence?  Just curious.
The fuck does that have to do with anything?
Just curious.  Nevermind.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7193|Cambridge (UK)

Pug wrote:

Okay, so I googled some stuff.  Of course this will not be relevant, because I'm sure there is absolutely no way you'll believe these points, or you will be yourself to be the exception.

Common facts thrown around.  I'm not going to worry about if it's biased, etc, because I know that just as some people study how drugs are bad, there's studies on how they are good and/or the study was bs in this case.  But here's the list:

1) Pot is a gateway drug to other more dangerous drugs
Very very debatable. Basically talk to any heroin addict and, a large proportion of the time, cannabis was their first illegal drug. But this, in and of itself, does not make cannabis a gateway drug. My understading is that there is no hard evidence to support such an argument.

Pug wrote:

2) The more frequent the individual uses drugs, it becomes easier to become addicted, because the frequency of use usually increases over time, due to increased tolerance and acceptability (it becomes easier to do it again and again).
Yep, as a pot smoker myself, I can tell you this is absolutely true - as tolerance builds you need more to reach the same place - that's why I practice a thing known as 'moderation'.

Pug wrote:

3) An experiment: a man in white coat, a man next to a dial, a guy with electric wires attached to him, and a subject.  The subject was to push the button, delivering an electrical shock to the "victim" whenever an incorrect response was given.  There was no shock, but the victim was an actor told to gradually give out louder and louder reactions to pain as the experiment went along.  The guy with the dial would increase the "shock" after every incorrect answer.  The guy in the white coat would encourage the subject there was nothing wrong and everything was controlled or ok.  Findings: 95% of the subjects pressed the button all the way to the end of the test, even though the subject was feigning unconsciousness.  Reason for behavior: people will follow the directions of an authority figure, also there's a "repetitive threshold", where it gets easier and easier to press the button because they have press it before.
Yep, I've read about that.

Pug wrote:

4) Drug use increases the chances of: health and mental problems, involvement in illegal activities beyond using, increased likelihood of death
Increased risk of health (inc. mental) problems - check.
Increased involvement in illegal activities - depends on the drug - for pot, no, for heroin, yes.
Increased likelihood of death - think this one through - we all have a 100% likelihood of dying.

Pug wrote:

5) If parents have favorable attitudes towards drug use or use drugs themselves, often their children will be more likely to abuse drugs.
I would use the word 'use' rather than 'abuse'.

Pug wrote:

6) Drug users have lower earnings potential.
Wrong. And provably so.

Pug wrote:

7) Roughly 10% of drug users get addicted.
I don't know what the exact figures are, but, yeah that wouldn't surprise me - but, lets put that into perspective - roughly 30% of the whole population have or have had a mental illness of some kind.

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