Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6427|...
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiap … index.html

"Lord of war, merchant of death"

They managed to lure him in a trap in Thailand, this man is probably the most genius arms dealer you could imagine, and most likely the biggest one in his kind. Now let's just hope they have concrete evidence against his dealership.

Basically he'd sell his arms to anyone who would pay.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-03-06 09:55:42)

inane little opines
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6822|The Gem Saloon
hey, im about to be in the same business as that guy.....just more legal
Gamematt
Stocking ur medpacks
+135|7090|Groningen, The Netherlands
Will it end the same as "Lord of War" ?
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6914|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
The Russian Government will demand his release sighting false charges from the US. He will stay in Thailand for a month living like a king in prison because he has money, he will never be extradited to the US, and by years end he will be sitting pretty in Moscow a state hero.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7048|London, England

Parker wrote:

hey, im about to be in the same business as that guy.....just more legal
Sure sure that's what they all say in the beginning
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7071
Viktor Bout.  What a stupid name.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7059|949

'Bout time.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7207|Great Brown North

Mek-Izzle wrote:

Parker wrote:

hey, im about to be in the same business as that guy.....just more legal
Sure sure that's what they all say in the beginning
if you get a flakvierling... gimme a call
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7237|Nårvei

IRONCHEF wrote:

If you recall, there's an enlightening movie out with Nic Cage being a big-time weapons dealer (i'll refrain from using the word "illegal" because it can be debated) in the movie "Lord of War."  In real life, a Russian man was caught in Thailand who is a real life version depicted in the movie Lord of War.  He has moved weapons all over the world, supplied many major conflicts, including some conflicts benefiting our enemies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7281297.stm

"A Russian man suspected of being one of the world's biggest illegal arms dealers has been arrested in Thailand.

Viktor Bout - who has been dubbed the "merchant of death" - was picked up by police at a luxury hotel in Bangkok.

The Thai authorities acted on a warrant issued by the US, which accuses Mr Bout of supplying arms to Colombian rebels.

He has also been accused of breaking UN embargoes on arms sales to many countries from central Asia to Africa, but has never been prosecuted.

When Belgium and Interpol issued an international arrest warrant for him in 2002, Mr Bout returned to Russia, where he was protected from extradition by the country's constitution...."
(more in linked article)


My point for debate is this:

What is this man's crime exactly?
I know he's a blessing and curse depending on which side of a conflict he's catering to.  I also realize he probably supplies both sides assuring their mutual destruction...thus the nickname he has of being the Merchant of Death.

Is it really unethical to supply militant groups, revolutionaries, waring armies, etc with arms?  Who gets to say what is legal and illegal in acquisition of weaponry?  Seriously, if I run a tribe of Shakazulus in Niger who is at war with the Slapaho tribe, and they're getting small arms support from Sudan or China, what is the big deal if I buy from a dealer like this guy?  Who is right and who is wrong?

My objective questions should not indicate my support nor my condemnation of the topic contents.  I'm just interested in what you all think about this kind of merchandising and ethics.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6427|...

Varegg wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

If you recall, there's an enlightening movie out with Nic Cage being a big-time weapons dealer (i'll refrain from using the word "illegal" because it can be debated) in the movie "Lord of War."  In real life, a Russian man was caught in Thailand who is a real life version depicted in the movie Lord of War.  He has moved weapons all over the world, supplied many major conflicts, including some conflicts benefiting our enemies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7281297.stm

"A Russian man suspected of being one of the world's biggest illegal arms dealers has been arrested in Thailand.

Viktor Bout - who has been dubbed the "merchant of death" - was picked up by police at a luxury hotel in Bangkok.

The Thai authorities acted on a warrant issued by the US, which accuses Mr Bout of supplying arms to Colombian rebels.

He has also been accused of breaking UN embargoes on arms sales to many countries from central Asia to Africa, but has never been prosecuted.

When Belgium and Interpol issued an international arrest warrant for him in 2002, Mr Bout returned to Russia, where he was protected from extradition by the country's constitution...."
(more in linked article)


My point for debate is this:

What is this man's crime exactly?
I know he's a blessing and curse depending on which side of a conflict he's catering to.  I also realize he probably supplies both sides assuring their mutual destruction...thus the nickname he has of being the Merchant of Death.

Is it really unethical to supply militant groups, revolutionaries, waring armies, etc with arms?  Who gets to say what is legal and illegal in acquisition of weaponry?  Seriously, if I run a tribe of Shakazulus in Niger who is at war with the Slapaho tribe, and they're getting small arms support from Sudan or China, what is the big deal if I buy from a dealer like this guy?  Who is right and who is wrong?

My objective questions should not indicate my support nor my condemnation of the topic contents.  I'm just interested in what you all think about this kind of merchandising and ethics.
Thanks Varr . Well back to Ironchef: "What is his crime"

He makes war possible. He is the one who gives people the material to torture / mutalite / murder eachother. Oftenly Illegal. Enough crime in dealing arms anyway.
inane little opines
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7237|Nårvei

*Does an armsdealer really make war possible or is he just taking advantage of a situation ?
*Isn't the conflict itself resposible for keeping armsdealers in business ?
*Who uses an armsdealer to sell their weapons ?

... wherever there is money involved someone else is more than ready to take over Viktor Bouts business i bet ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6427|...

Varegg wrote:

*Does an armsdealer really make war possible or is he just taking advantage of a situation ?
*Isn't the conflict itself resposible for keeping armsdealers in business ?
*Who uses an armsdealer to sell their weapons ?

... wherever there is money involved someone else is more than ready to take over Viktor Bouts business i bet ...
One: He's taking advantage of the situation, but as he deals in weapons - which are needed to wage war - yes, he's making war possible.

Two: Partly, but as the UN has put in places on which there won't be any delivery of guns for the safety of the people living there, the arms dealer must take his own responsibilities too. The stuff UN puts there from "Hey, no weapons here" isn't there for no reason. He's delibaretely and knowingly providing two extremes with the material to worsen their situation + kill eachother. Also, it's illegal anyway.

Three: Bout got his weapons anywhere he could find them. When companies hired him sometimes the cargo went 'missing' and he also got a huge amount of weapons out of soviet storages just after the fall of the soviet empire. Gaurds were underpayed, there was barely any security ; it was there for the taking.

Either that, or they produce these things themselves - buy them from weapon producing companies / military (I guess these are corrupted aswell most cases)

And I don't think someone will be as succesfull as Bout, he was pretty much awesome in hiding everything and even now he doesn't look surprised (on the pictures anyway) as if he'd be able to cover it all up anyway.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-03-06 13:10:53)

inane little opines
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7237|Nårvei

I partially agree but not quite.

1.An armsdealer makes a conflict more effective in causing casualties but not the conflict itself.
2.I still stand by my rethoric on armsdealers going out of business without a conflict.
3.Bout may have been one of the best in his business but rather reckless seeing as most people have heard of him - there still might be several others less known but equally capable, imo a known armsdealer is better than an unknown one.

And by this i don't say that i'm a fan of Bout or his work.

A comment on the movie Lord of War, it actually displays the role of an armsdealer rather good, the ethics or rather the lack of such.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6427|...

Varegg wrote:

I partially agree but not quite.

1.An armsdealer makes a conflict more effective in causing casualties but not the conflict itself.
He makes the 'conflict' escalate in war / minor war. He dramatically escalates events by delivering guns and such, so he's actually creating a much bigger conflict out of a conflict.

Varegg wrote:

2.I still stand by my rethoric on armsdealers going out of business without a conflict.
I can't deny that.

Varegg wrote:

3.Bout may have been one of the best in his business but rather reckless seeing as most people have heard of him - there still might be several others less known but equally capable, imo a known armsdealer is better than an unknown one.
Most people have heard of him because he was pretty much the center in the spider web of arms dealers, once that was known people started tracking him down. He was also known because that improves your bussiness, people go to known dealers quicker than unknown ones, and seeing as how long he managed to avoid authority and to deliver his wares, he was a very trusty one at that.
inane little opines
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7237|Nårvei

Conflicting more casualties often leads to a spread of said conflict so i buy that argument.

His rep i guess is both good and bad for business, good for attracting customers, bad for attracting attention from governments that wants him out of business (those that didn't trade with him that is)
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6918|Northern California
I see no difference between my country selling weapons and ammo to the Taliban and this arms dealer doing the same.  I don't believe ANYONE who is a party to doing these things should judge..therefore, I don't see how the US can have him extradited here to be tried.  Tried for what?  Talk about anti-competitive behavior.  And if convicted, he'll probably die...for said competition. 

That's my beef.  The 7.62x54 rimmed ammo is all being bought up and sent to Iraq for their snipers who use SVDs.  China is buying all our precious metals making our ammo costs skyrocket.  They're buying our metal for what, military expenditures?  Probably.  That would suggest the US is selling us out for the Chinese.  Talk about a crime!
Obiwan
Go Cards !!
+196|7122|The Ville

Gamematt wrote:

Will it end the same as "Lord of War" ?
No
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

Gamematt wrote:

Will it end the same as "Lord of War" ?
Probably....  if Russia puts enough pressure on Thailand.

I don't see Viktor as any worse than the governments that do the same shit he does.  In fact, these governments typically employ people like him.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard