What Happens When Your Enemy is Hopeless?

2008-03-06 02:38:18

#1

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7185|Argentina

The groups' report, Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion, says the blockade has dramatically worsened levels of poverty and unemployment, and has led to deterioration in education and health services.

More than 1.1 million Gazans are dependent on food aid and of 110,000 workers previously employed in the private sector, 75,000 have now lost their jobs, the report says.

"Unless the blockade ends now, it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace in the region will be dashed," said Geoffrey Dennis, of Care International UK.

Last week Israeli forces launched a bloody and destructive raid in northern Gaza, in which more than 120 Palestinians - including many civilians - were killed.

Israel says the measures are designed to stamp out frequent rocket fire by Palestinian militants.

Recent rocket attacks have hit deeper into southern Israel, reaching Ashkelon, the closest large Israeli city to the Gaza Strip.

Israel says its military action and other measures are lawful and needed to stop rocket attacks from Gaza.

Israel's Defence Ministry rejected the criticism in the report, blaming the Hamas militant group which controls Gaza.

2008-03-06 02:59:48

#2

Tetrino: International OMGWTFBBQ; +200|7158|Uhh... erm...

If the blockade and raids are meant to stop rocket strikes on Israel, they don't seem to be working.

2008-03-06 03:08:21

#3

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6838|'Murka

If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-06 04:58:23

#4

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6533|eXtreme to the maX

If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.

Its the Israelis who keep Gaza in the state its in, if the militants stopped all activity nothing would change.
Israel needs to start taking peace negotiations seriously, and start negotiating with the militants.

Fuck Israel

2008-03-06 05:07:59

#5

DeathBecomesYu: Member; +171|6607

Dilbert_X wrote:
If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.
Its the Israelis who keep Gaza in the state its in, if the militants stopped all activity nothing would change.
Israel needs to start taking peace negotiations seriously, and start negotiating with the militants.

I totally disagree with this. If the bombing and suicide attacks stopped COMPLETELY on the militant side....things would change for the better. Then at that point, Israel would have to halt and recede its settlement expansions and this could be done. In fact, if the militant actions stopped, Israel would have NO EXCUSE for any military action, any shootings or incursions. They wouldnt have a leg to stand on. Then the international community could turn the tables and condemn Israel for such actions and actually put in place sanctions similar to other situations. Militant actions actually play right into the hands of Israel and it would seem that someone would be smart enough to figure that out.

2008-03-06 05:12:05

#6

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7185|Argentina

Dilbert_X wrote:
If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.
Its the Israelis who keep Gaza in the state its in, if the militants stopped all activity nothing would change.
Israel needs to start taking peace negotiations seriously, and start negotiating with the militants.

You can't negotiate with extremists.

2008-03-06 05:31:20

#7

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6533|eXtreme to the maX

Then at that point, Israel would have to halt and recede its settlement expansions and this could be done.

It never happened during the past ceasefires.

In fact, if the militant actions stopped, Israel would have NO EXCUSE for any military action, any shootings or incursions.

It never stopped them before - they just go on provoking until they have an excuse.

They wouldnt have a leg to stand on. Then the international community could turn the tables and condemn Israel for such actions and actually put in place sanctions similar to other situations.

There are umpteen UN resolutions condemning Israel, the US always vetoes any possible action, sanctions etc. It is just possible the world is so sick of the atrocities in Palestine something could happen this time though.

Militant actions actually play right into the hands of Israel and it would seem that someone would be smart enough to figure that out.

True enough, they have tried everything else however.

Fuck Israel

2008-03-06 05:38:14

#8

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6838|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.
Its the Israelis who keep Gaza in the state its in, if the militants stopped all activity nothing would change.
Israel needs to start taking peace negotiations seriously, and start negotiating with the militants.

Nope. It's Hamas that keeps Gaza in the state it's in. Before Hamas took over Gaza, progress was being made. Militant attacks were down, as were IDF responses. Hamas is the Palestinian's worst enemy.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-06 05:42:08

#9

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6533|eXtreme to the maX

Before Hamas took over Gaza, progress was being made. Militant attacks were down, as were IDF responses. Hamas is the Palestinian's worst enemy.

It seems the Palestinians didn't agree with this rose-tinted view of the situation put forward by AIPAC.
They democratically elected Hamas after all.

Fuck Israel

2008-03-06 05:44:02

#10

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6838|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Before Hamas took over Gaza, progress was being made. Militant attacks were down, as were IDF responses. Hamas is the Palestinian's worst enemy.
It seems the Palestinians didn't agree with this rose-tinted view of the situation put forward by AIPAC.
They democratically elected Hamas after all.

I must have missed the call and pamphlets from AIPAC. I was just going off all those slanted reports from the Jew-loving media.

I fully realize the Palestinians elected Hamas...I'm sure they regret it every day. Happens all over the world.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-06 05:45:47

#11

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6533|eXtreme to the maX

I fully realize the Palestinians elected Hamas

Maybe you should have a think about why.

Fuck Israel

2008-03-06 05:46:59

#12

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6838|'Murka

Or not. It's their choice. They are living with the consequences.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-06 05:47:25

#13

Sorcerer0513: Member; +18|6969|Outer Space

Dilbert_X wrote:
Before Hamas took over Gaza, progress was being made. Militant attacks were down, as were IDF responses. Hamas is the Palestinian's worst enemy.
It seems the Palestinians didn't agree with this rose-tinted view of the situation put forward by AIPAC.
They democratically elected Hamas after all.

I always thought they elected Hamas because of Fatah corruption, and cos Hamas was building schools and hospitals?

2008-03-06 05:52:42

#14

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6533|eXtreme to the maX

I always thought they elected Hamas because of Fatah corruption, and cos Hamas was building schools and hospitals?

Maybe so.
Maybe they saw Fatah selling out their aspirations in return for zip.
I guess you'd have to ask them.

Fuck Israel

2008-03-06 06:38:06

#15

B.Schuss: I'm back, baby... ( sort of ); +664|7269|Cologne, Germany

Dilbert_X wrote:
I always thought they elected Hamas because of Fatah corruption, and cos Hamas was building schools and hospitals?
Maybe so.
Maybe they saw Fatah selling out their aspirations in return for zip.
I guess you'd have to ask them.

kinda ironic, if you think about it. Hamas does indeed do both. They support the palestinians in the refugee camps by providing important goods, and financial support, and at the same time they engage in military operations against the israelis, and fire rockets into israeli territory, thereby ruining every chance of progress being made.

the question is, how do you stop that vicious circle ? after all, most palestinians will still believe that Hamas are the only ones that are really on their side.

2008-03-06 11:14:42

#16

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7189

Haven't we already talked about this for the most part? Why did we remove the israel vs pal sticky?

2008-03-06 11:31:56

#17

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6650|Escea

Dilbert_X wrote:
Before Hamas took over Gaza, progress was being made. Militant attacks were down, as were IDF responses. Hamas is the Palestinian's worst enemy.
It seems the Palestinians didn't agree with this rose-tinted view of the situation put forward by AIPAC.
They democratically elected Hamas after all.

They democratically elected Hitler as well.

2008-03-06 11:33:54

#18

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7071

Dilbert_X wrote:
If the Gazans don't like their situation, they should take action against the militants who keep them in these conditions. Don't attack Israel, and there won't be repercussions. Fairly simple.
Its the Israelis who keep Gaza in the state its in, if the militants stopped all activity nothing would change.
Israel needs to start taking peace negotiations seriously, and start negotiating with the militants.

so hamas' charter has nothing to do with the blockade. interesting. is the west bank in a shit hole at the moment? you know, fatah.

2008-03-06 13:10:27

#19

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6969|Texas - Bigger than France

Yes, hopeless with rockets.

2008-03-06 13:10:57

#20

jord: Member; +2,382|7105|The North, beyond the wall.

"What happens when your enemy is hopeless"

You stand more of a chance of winning?

2008-03-06 13:47:13

#21

jamiecracker: Member; +17|7175|Wollongong,Australia

what can Israel do
every surrounding country wants to kill them all
there is not much room for movement there
if people had level heads and talked about stuff instead of using an assualt rifle there might be change
anyway i live here in peace so i suppose i dont have any real qualifications to comment on this further

2008-03-06 15:22:36

#22

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7028|132 and Bush

You know what else is hopeless? The idea that Israel can do anything at all to protect themselves and not be criticized for it. Everything they do brings about a new thread of condemnation here in DAST. So why should Israel listen to their critics? If it's a choice between world opinion and preventing rocket attacks I think we know the outcome.

Clearly the Israeli situation is hopeless as well. You don't have to pick an enemy to understand the obvious on both sides.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2008-03-06 15:28:11

#23

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6718|Éire

Kmarion wrote:
You know what else is hopeless? The idea that Israel can do anything at all to protect themselves and not be criticized for it. Everything they do brings about a new thread of condemnation here in DAST. So why should Israel listen to their critics? If it's a choice between world opinion and preventing rocket attacks I think we know the outcome.

Clearly the Israeli situation is hopeless as well. You don't have to pick an enemy to understand the obvious on both sides.

Eight Jews killed this evening on the news ...heavy handed military action seems to be working a treat.

It's like two idiot hard men in a fight, neither one is going to back down and each feels confident that they are prepared to do what the other won't ...it's a scary recipe. I don't know how this will play out but I predict more attacks similar to tonight and more heavy handed revenge strikes.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-03-06 15:28:43)

2008-03-06 15:40:26

#24

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7028|132 and Bush

Israel had tried using softer methods to stop the attacks, including a lockdown on the border between Gaza and Israel. That resulted in a breakout at Rafah, which took the Egyptian government several days to resecure. Other nations had pressured Israel to end the embargo or at least loosen it for food, energy, and medical supplies, but the rocket attacks continue. Hamas started using rockets capable of hitting Ashkelon. Gaza needs to rid themselves of the terrorists before Israel’s military does its work... for real.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2008-03-06 15:50:35

#25

jamiecracker: Member; +17|7175|Wollongong,Australia

was it the "wrath of god" operation that they used for the black september terrorists

BF2S Forums What Happens When Your Enemy is Hopeless?

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