BF2S Forums IT's the MEDIA!!! Of Course, how silly of me.

Varegg wrote:

Lack of knowledge often causes misunderstandings.

If all you hear through media is that Islam is pure violence that will shape your believes and then you base your believes on a one sided presentation.

With the media coverage we have today it is always important to question the content of such reports and seek knowledge about it outside the populistic media to get the full picture.

I don't need media coverage.  I could see the smoke from twin towers from my dorm room window.

Ask the people in Madrid and London, too.  They don't need the media.  In my opinion, the media isn't doing a good enough job.  There's still way too much compassion and sympathy for this evil religion.

Varegg wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Varegg wrote:

The old testament doesn't count according to lowing ...

Interpretation is everything. Do not take the words of a 2000 year old book literal. It's called progress. The religious culture of Islam is stuck in a rut, despite having a 4000 year old head start. This is not to say that there are not looney Christians as well. But the rantings from the religious extreme are not proportional.

Could be that the need for religion is lesser in the western parts of the world and more transparent ?

It could also be that their prophet was a warrior who slaughtered the helpless. Like I said, Islam has had plenty of time to progress (More than most). For a culture that calls themselves the cradle of civilization they really should have learned to stand on their own feet by now. A good start would be to stop blaming away their own failures. Especially on countries that have only been around a couple hundred years.

siciliano732 wrote:

no, its the void in lower manhattan that shaped my views of Islam.  Its the close friends and family or their parents who are no longer with us that shaped my views of Islam.  I dont care who you are or what your views are...until you have experience this first hand then and only then will your views change.  You can feed me all your politics and "open minded" bullshit but once close family and friends lives are lost...then you will want to nuke every single one of them like I want to.

Islam can go to hell...and thats exactly where it will be.

I can fully understand those feelings and i don't mean it to be insulting but your view is clouded from just that experience ...

Varegg wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Could be that the need for religion is lesser in the western parts of the world and more transparent ?

It could also be that their prophet was a warrior who slaughtered the helpless. Like I said, Islam has had plenty of time to progress (More than most). For a culture that calls themselves the cradle of civilization they really should have learned to stand on their own feet by now. A good start would be to stop blaming away their own failures. Especially on countries that have only been around a couple hundred years.

It's to easy to draw such conclusions Kerry, yes they have a stronger belief % than Christinanity and live by a totally different way of thinking and a completly different set of values - that being different from ours doesn't make it bad automatically.

The majority of Islam have come a long way the last dacades but still have a long way to go ...

Wasn't this a media discussion tbh ?

"intolerance and violence that surrounds Islam"

Don't question my conclusions while in the same post presuming I automatically think their values are bad. I have thoroughly explained where I think the flaws are.

Varegg wrote:

Of course i can question your conclusions if i think they are wrong, isn't that the whole point of a debate ?

lol.. let me rephrase. It's hypocritical to call my conclusions "easy" while at the same time lacking the effort to pay attention to all of my comments.

Varegg wrote:

I'm not presuming anything but i take into consideration that maybe you haven't taken all aspects into the process of forming a objective conclusion, or maybe that is presuming - i wish i was better friends with the English language

I understand what you are saying. You've been around here enough to know that my responses are measured.

There is always a reason for people to behave in a certain manor, trying to understand those reasons gives you a better and more objective view, speaking in general terms of course and not directed at your logic Kerry witch i know is good.

Of course there are reasons for people to act out. It's when we continue to accept these reasons unchallenged that we fail to move forward.

Varegg wrote:

I'm not saying a beheading of a 15 month old kid shouldn't be reported on, i'm saying that when you never hear anything else through media than the horrible incidents you form a biased opinion that there is nothing but just such incidents.

exactly.

this OP is stupid. lowing, sign up for stats at your local CC. im tired of explaining descriptive statistics in all of your threads.

DrunkFace wrote:

When a Christian person, rapes children or murders people its the 'sick' Persons fault, because they are fucked in the head. But when a Muslim does something or kills someone it's Islam's fault, because it's the evil religion of crazy lunatics.

If you want to quote the Qur'an, I can just as easily quote the Bible where it says to kill, 'stone' people in the name of god.

ding ding, correct.

Kmarion wrote:

Interpretation is everything. Do not take the words of a 2000 year old book literal. It's called progress. The religious culture of Islam is stuck in a rut, despite having a 4000 year old head start. This is not to say that there are not looney Christians as well. But the rantings from the religious extreme are not proportional.

lol, you want proportional rhetoric? Well firstly, the "proportion" that you perceive is spoon fed by the media, its only a representation of their selections. Secondly, who cares about the rhetoric, its a simple fact that our culture has slaughtered many times more Muslims than they have killed of ours. First we whip them, then we whip them again for crying out. You guys make a thread every time you hear that a Muslim made an inflammatory comment, yet our enormous economy has spent twice as much on occupying them with an enormous invasion force than their economies will ever see. You follow? We have spent more on invading them, than they even have, total. To compare the proportion of our aggression to theirs would look something like 25 to 1 in spending. if you go by casualties and use the most favorable statistics for the USA, then the ratio is something like 50 to 1. If you go by any of the other death tolls, the ratio might even be 250 to 1. So to complain about proportional roles between Muslims and western culture in this clash is an argument entirely in favor of Muslim culture. And what do you mean when you say the religious culture of Islam had a 4,000 year head start?

siciliano732 wrote:

no, its the void in lower manhattan that shaped my views of Islam.  Its the close friends and family or their parents who are no longer with us that shaped my views of Islam.  I dont care who you are or what your views are...until you have experience this first hand then and only then will your views change.  You can feed me all your politics and "open minded" bullshit but once close family and friends lives are lost...then you will want to nuke every single one of them like I want to.

Islam can go to hell...and thats exactly where it will be.

k, im sorry for whatever you have been through, but you need to grow up. just because one violent event happened in the US 7 years ago, doesnt mean we need to repeat it every other day in retaliation against people that didnt have a fucking thing to do with 9/11. I mean, youre right when you say "until you experience it first hand, then and only then will your views change." its a simple fact that an utterly miniscule percentage of americans experienced that attack first hand, which is exactly why the rational majority of americans cannot in their right minds condone our vague never-ending retaliation against a country of innocent people. You are evidently one of those scarred individuals that can no longer treat this issue rationally.

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Radical Islam is evil... and it needs to go... not much room for argument...

catbox is evil. because i said so. see how dumb that sounds?

Kmarion wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Of course i can question your conclusions if i think they are wrong, isn't that the whole point of a debate ?

lol.. let me rephrase. It's hypocritical to call my conclusions "easy" while at the same time lacking the effort to pay attention to all of my comments.

I was only referring to that sole conclusion as easy concerning their prophet not your combined statements, those i keep an keen eye on seeing as the differences between us are few ...

Kmarion wrote:

Varegg wrote:

I'm not presuming anything but i take into consideration that maybe you haven't taken all aspects into the process of forming a objective conclusion, or maybe that is presuming - i wish i was better friends with the English language

I understand what you are saying. You've been around here enough to know that my responses are measured.

Nothing to add here ...

Kmarion wrote:

There is always a reason for people to behave in a certain manor, trying to understand those reasons gives you a better and more objective view, speaking in general terms of course and not directed at your logic Kerry witch i know is good.

Of course there are reasons for people to act out. It's when we continue to accept these reasons unchallenged that we fail to move forward.

I think more often it is the lack of understanding both them as individuals and as a populace, and not to forget why they respond to us the way they do. The ratio us vs them just doesn't add up in monstrosities, our behaviour against the ME have tought them to hate us and with good reason, their means of counter-actions are few and radical but it is all they have to fight back with. We can mainly thank the British and colonialism for this

Varegg wrote:

I think more often it is the lack of understanding both them as individuals and as a populace, and not to forget why they respond to us the way they do. The ratio us vs them just doesn't add up in monstrosities, our behaviour against the ME have tought them to hate us and with good reason, their means of counter-actions are few and radical but it is all they have to fight back with. We can mainly thank the British and colonialism for this

They've been trying to "understand" themselves for 4000 years. Times up. Stop blaming away their failures on civilizations that didn't exist until thousands of years after their inception. It's weak, narrow minded, and extremely short sighted. They have been their own worst enemies. It is their own leaders who have opened the door for the exploitation of their resources. When they stop making excuses, take personal responsibility, and treat their women equally then they can join the rest of the civilized world. 

Kmarion wrote:

Varegg wrote:

I think more often it is the lack of understanding both them as individuals and as a populace, and not to forget why they respond to us the way they do. The ratio us vs them just doesn't add up in monstrosities, our behaviour against the ME have tought them to hate us and with good reason, their means of counter-actions are few and radical but it is all they have to fight back with. We can mainly thank the British and colonialism for this

They've been trying to "understand" themselves for 4000 years. Times up. Stop blaming away their failures on civilizations that didn't exist until thousands of years after their inception. It's weak, narrow minded, and extremely short sighted. They have been their own worst enemies. It is their own leaders who have opened the door for the exploitation of their resources. When they stop making excuses, take personal responsibility, and treat their women equally then they can join the rest of the civilized world. 

Ehr ... fact is the ME was a very prosperous part of the world before the "white" man showed up, of course they have had their fare share of regional conflicts but not particularly more than the rest of world.

Colonialism took part in the ME and parts of Asia when most of the inventions we benefit so greatly from today took place either in our part of the world and tech passing through from Asia, the ME themselves had many a great breakthroughs in ancient times and was infact more civil than us 2000 years ago.

They stood fast under a British controlled colonial rule while the western parts of the world took the leap into the industrial and mechanized age much thanks to the same colonial rule, that is a gap it will take some time to even out and yes they bitch about it but not without some reason.

When exactly was the ME supposed to prosper after the crusades, name one century that they wasn't plundered and enslaved by either their enemies in the west or the Mongols & Timurids from the east ... the ME has been a hotspot for conflicts since 2000+ years ago and still the scars are visible ...

Take that into consideration when you (meaning all of you) call Islam a violent religion ...

You, me, my brother Jake, everybody (with eurasian genetic and/or cultural roots), needs to be aware that the Tigris-Euphrates basin is where we're coming from.

That's where Islam comes from as well. We're related.

I keep missing the news of
"Islamic fanactic rushed in to a burning home today to save the life of a child"
Not saying this never happens but I keep hearing more about suicide bombings.

G3|Genius wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Lack of knowledge often causes misunderstandings.

If all you hear through media is that Islam is pure violence that will shape your believes and then you base your believes on a one sided presentation.

With the media coverage we have today it is always important to question the content of such reports and seek knowledge about it outside the populistic media to get the full picture.

I don't need media coverage.  I could see the smoke from twin towers from my dorm room window.

Ask the people in Madrid and London, too.  They don't need the media.  In my opinion, the media isn't doing a good enough job.  There's still way too much compassion and sympathy for this evil religion.

Well those guys were yelling "death to America!" and not "death to people who are not like Muslim and stuff!", methinks politics and economics have had more influence on their behavior than religion has. The media actually is at fault as they just roll with the whole "they kill eachother cuz they is different religions" idea because the people they are broadcasting to isn't capable of understanding how complex the situation really is.

PluggedValve wrote:

All religeons are fucked.  Not only Islam.  Crusades much, abortion clinic killers, GW Bush???

We are talking continued about self destruction and lack of progress. Do you wanna go tit for tat in modern times? Killing each other is a daily event in the middle east. Once they stop picking ancient blood feuds over progress the sooner the bloodshed will stop.