Home school is something I wouldn't want to have to do. It's a bad idea, but you should be free to go ahead and carry out bad ideas.
Homeschooling is fail. I don't see why parents would do that to their children. Human beings are social by nature, don't deprive them of key skills by isolating them from the real world.
No offense, but most homeschooling is bullshit. It looks like California figured this out but wasn't able to figure out that you need more money in the system for a decent public education system.Harmor wrote:
Now with the $4 billion dollar budget cuts that are already coming down the line in California, is this a way to exacerbate the problem by forcing 166,000 currently homeschooled kids to goto public school to learn how to put a condom on a cucumber?
Maybe they should just do the vouchers thing.
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-03-08 08:11:09)
FUCK THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT!!!!!! I WAS HOME SCHOOLED WITH THE SCHOOL OF TOMORROW PROGRAM, AND I GOT BETTER GRADES THEN ANY FUCKING NOOB IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
Last edited by Bradt3hleader (2008-03-08 08:13:37)
Do you mean Californian government?Bradt3hleader wrote:
FUCK THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT!!!!!! I WAS HOME SCHOOLED WITH THE SCHOOL OF TOMORROW PROGRAM, AND I GOT BETTER GRADES THEN ANY FUCKING NOOB IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
Also it's considered bad grammar to use multiple exclamation marks.ghettoperson wrote:
Do you mean Californian government?Bradt3hleader wrote:
FUCK THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT!!!!!! I WAS HOME SCHOOLED WITH THE SCHOOL OF TOMORROW PROGRAM, AND I GOT BETTER GRADES THEN ANY FUCKING NOOB IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
Oh, so you got magic powers that let you know you're smarter than every student that went through public school?Bradt3hleader wrote:
FUCK THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT!!!!!! I WAS HOME SCHOOLED WITH THE SCHOOL OF TOMORROW PROGRAM, AND I GOT BETTER GRADES THEN ANY FUCKING NOOB IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
It's what his mum told him.jord wrote:
Oh, so you got magic powers that let you know you're smarter than every student that went through public school?Bradt3hleader wrote:
FUCK THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT!!!!!! I WAS HOME SCHOOLED WITH THE SCHOOL OF TOMORROW PROGRAM, AND I GOT BETTER GRADES THEN ANY FUCKING NOOB IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!
Notice my perfect spelling of each word, and my proper punctuation!
Edit:
Notice also, I didn't take the time to read the stupid article. So this may look stupid...
I spent most of my early days in a goverment-run (aka 'public') school before I was sent to a private school to finish. My grades improved in the private school and I learned a whole lot more.Turquoise wrote:
No offense, but most homeschooling is bullshit. It looks like California figured this out but wasn't able to figure out that you need more money in the system for a decent public education system.Harmor wrote:
Now with the $4 billion dollar budget cuts that are already coming down the line in California, is this a way to exacerbate the problem by forcing 166,000 currently homeschooled kids to goto public school to learn how to put a condom on a cucumber?
Maybe they should just do the vouchers thing.
However, once I got to college, one of my best friends there had been homeschooled. He was 16 years old, in college. He wrote an english paper; the paper was so good his professor accused him of plagerism and he was forced to defend his paper in front of a board from the English department; which he successfully did. He graduated from college at 19. He also got married to his college sweetheart at 20, and lives a very successful life in Georgia. He was not stunted socially at all.
When you are homeschooled, you can learn more in a shorter period of time, leaving you more time to learn more or to grow more as a person. You have more time that you would at a school that does not care for you as a person but simply pours you into the standard public school mode.
Homeschooling is not for everyone. Some parents gladly ship their kids off to school to use the facility as a day care center. Some parets are totally unsuited to teach their children, regardless of their other qualifications as a parent. Most parents do not have the time to homeschool their children. I fully support the idea of homeschooling for parents that are willing and able. Yes, there was a very public horror story of a parent abusing their child who was homeschooled. How many incidences have their been of students being abused and molested at public schools, both by fellow students and teachers?
The social argument does not hold up if the family lives in any kind of home near other homes. As long as kids still go outside to play, there will still be plenty of socialization.
EDITED to fix me being a dummy and typing too fast.
Last edited by imortal (2008-03-08 09:23:24)
I dated a girl that was homeschooled. I came to realize that she was quite socially naive.imortal wrote:
I spent most of my early days in a goverment-run (aka 'public') school before I was sent to a private school to finish. My grades improved in the private school and I learned a whole lot more.
However, once I got to college, one of my best friends there had been homeschooled. He was 16 years old, in college. He was an english paper; the paper was so good his professor accused him of plagerism and he was forced to defend his paper in front of a board from the English department; which he successfully did. He graduated from college at 19. He also got married to his college sweetheart at 20, and lives a very successful life in Georgia. He was not stunted socially at all.
When you are homeschooled, you can learn more in a shorter period of time, leaving you more time to learn more or to grow more as a person. You have more time that you would at a school that does not care for you as a person but simply pours you into the standard public school mode.
The key here is the first sentence. It's not just the parents that are the variable. A lot of kids (like a lot of people) just aren't that bright. If you try teaching them in a home environment, unless you're a phenomenal parent that doesn't have to work outside of the home, you're probably not going to be able to home school your kid properly.imortal wrote:
Homeschooling is not for everyone. Some parents gladly ship their kids off to school to use the facility as a day care center. Some parets are totally unsuited to teach their children, regardless of their other qualifications as a parent. Most parents do not have the time to homeschool their children. I fully support the idea of homeschooling for parents that are willing and able. Yes, there was a very public horror story of a parent abusing their child who was homeschooled. How many incidences have their been of students being abused and molested at public schools, both by fellow students and teachers?
The social argument does not hold up if the family lives in any kind of home near other homes. As long as kids still go outside to play, there will still be plenty of socialization.
I will agree with you that privatizing education is probably a good thing, but homeschooling seems to usually be a mistake.
The guy you know was obviously bright to begin with, and I'm assuming at least one of his parents was either a housewife or had a home office. His case is certainly not the norm.
All the families I have known that homeschooled had a parent who did not work outside the home. I'm not sure where you're getting your vision of homeschooling tbh.
I wouldn't doubt it, but are the kids especially bright? Secondly, are the parents setting curriculums that are sufficient to match the appropriate standards?Stingray24 wrote:
All the families I have known that homeschooled had a parent who did not work outside the home. I'm not sure where you're getting your vision of homeschooling tbh.
I just don't like leaving this much up to individuals. Education is something that should be somewhat regimented and standardized.
Actually, his mother had died long before; his father worked from home and still managed to homeschool him. You are right in that he is very bright. And homeschooling isn't for everyone, you are correct.Turquoise wrote:
The key here is the first sentence. It's not just the parents that are the variable. A lot of kids (like a lot of people) just aren't that bright. If you try teaching them in a home environment, unless you're a phenomenal parent that doesn't have to work outside of the home, you're probably not going to be able to home school your kid properly.
I will agree with you that privatizing education is probably a good thing, but homeschooling seems to usually be a mistake.
The guy you know was obviously bright to begin with, and I'm assuming at least one of his parents was either a housewife or had a home office. His case is certainly not the norm.
My anger comes from the way California is progressing. The state of California has already upheld in court that a parent has no say over what their children are taught in public school. Now they are saying that it is illegal for you to homeschool your kid unless you have a teaching permit that is granted by... whom? The state. More and more, the state of California is taking control of what the children learn.
“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
Vladimir Lenin
“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
“He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.”
Adolf Hitler
“The universities are available only to those who share my revolutionary beliefs.”
Fidel Castro
Those are all valid concerns, and I suppose my support for ending truancy laws would actually be more in line with the homeschooling mindset.imortal wrote:
My anger comes from the way California is progressing. The state of California has already upheld in court that a parent has no say over what their children are taught in public school. Now they are saying that it is illegal for you to homeschool your kid unless you have a teaching permit that is granted by... whom? The state. More and more, the state of California is taking control of what the children learn.
“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
Vladimir Lenin
“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
“He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.”
Adolf Hitler
“The universities are available only to those who share my revolutionary beliefs.”
Fidel Castro
Maybe we should just limit it down to a few standardized tests that everyone must take, regardless of educational background. If they can pass the tests, they get the diploma. Education could be moved in the privatized and voluntary pay direction, thereby providing as much as freedom as is feasible.
What do you think?
Granted. I think the state should set a requirement that all children in that state should be educated to a certain level. How they get there is up to the parent; homeschool, private school, religeious school, maybe even (as I shudder) public school. I agree that there should be a standardized system of tests to regulate and monitor the progress of the children. We here in Texas just have a nasty time with our state standardized test, as most public schools now teach nothing but how to pass the test. But that is another issue.Turquoise wrote:
Those are all valid concerns, and I suppose my support for ending truancy laws would actually be more in line with the homeschooling mindset.imortal wrote:
My anger comes from the way California is progressing. The state of California has already upheld in court that a parent has no say over what their children are taught in public school. Now they are saying that it is illegal for you to homeschool your kid unless you have a teaching permit that is granted by... whom? The state. More and more, the state of California is taking control of what the children learn.
“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
Vladimir Lenin
“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
“He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.”
Adolf Hitler
“The universities are available only to those who share my revolutionary beliefs.”
Fidel Castro
Maybe we should just limit it down to a few standardized tests that everyone must take, regardless of educational background. If they can pass the tests, they get the diploma. Education could be moved in the privatized and voluntary pay direction, thereby providing as much as freedom as is feasible.
What do you think?
I think we have a consensus. Of course, enforcement is another problem. I am worried stil worried about public schools and the curriculum, though. Monitoring implies a standard and an ability to force conforment to that standard. But there needs to be an ability for those without funds (and those chidren in state custody) to receive and education? Perhaps a contracted, but privately run creche system?
Sometimes the kids are not especially bright, but bright or not, the great advantage to homeschooling is that it can be tailored to the individual child by the people who know the child the best ... their parents. There are several very solid curriculums out there that are popular among homeschoolers. One of them was actually used in the private school I attended. I completely disagree that school should be standardized. Annual or semiannual statewide testing is standardized in many states for public, private, and homeschool students. The homeschoolers routinely test above everyone else, too. Why? Focus on the individual, instead of forcing that student to learn the way that's easy for the school and its teachers.Turquoise wrote:
I wouldn't doubt it, but are the kids especially bright? Secondly, are the parents setting curriculums that are sufficient to match the appropriate standards?Stingray24 wrote:
All the families I have known that homeschooled had a parent who did not work outside the home. I'm not sure where you're getting your vision of homeschooling tbh.
I just don't like leaving this much up to individuals. Education is something that should be somewhat regimented and standardized.
Enforcement could simply be a matter of passing. Without a high school diploma, you don't have a lot of work options. So, if a kid doesn't pass the tests one year, he/she would likely just have to try the next year.imortal wrote:
Granted. I think the state should set a requirement that all children in that state should be educated to a certain level. How they get there is up to the parent; homeschool, private school, religeious school, maybe even (as I shudder) public school. I agree that there should be a standardized system of tests to regulate and monitor the progress of the children. We here in Texas just have a nasty time with our state standardized test, as most public schools now teach nothing but how to pass the test. But that is another issue.
I think we have a consensus. Of course, enforcement is another problem. I am worried stil worried about public schools and the curriculum, though. Monitoring implies a standard and an ability to force conforment to that standard. But there needs to be an ability for those without funds (and those chidren in state custody) to receive and education? Perhaps a contracted, but privately run creche system?
As for the last concern you mention, I've toyed with the idea of providing tax incentives to large employers for the sake of giving poorer kids trade educations. One of the greatest concerns that faces poorer teens is finding a decent job right after school. If we could possibly set up a corporate system whereby poorer kids receive access to technical educations that land them jobs right out of school, I think we'd solve a lot of problems at once -- crime, education, and unemployment.
Good points. As long as these kids pass the state tests, then I guess it's ok afterall.Stingray24 wrote:
Sometimes the kids are not especially bright, but bright or not, the great advantage to homeschooling is that it can be tailored to the individual child by the people who know the child the best ... their parents. There are several very solid curriculums out there that are popular among homeschoolers. One of them was actually used in the private school I attended. I completely disagree that school should be standardized. Annual or semiannual statewide testing is standardized in many states for public, private, and homeschool students. The homeschoolers routinely test above everyone else, too. Why? Focus on the individual, instead of forcing that student to learn the way that's easy for the school and its teachers.Turquoise wrote:
I wouldn't doubt it, but are the kids especially bright? Secondly, are the parents setting curriculums that are sufficient to match the appropriate standards?Stingray24 wrote:
All the families I have known that homeschooled had a parent who did not work outside the home. I'm not sure where you're getting your vision of homeschooling tbh.
I just don't like leaving this much up to individuals. Education is something that should be somewhat regimented and standardized.
imortal did a good job putting this into perspective when it comes to parental choices. I didn't realize that California had become that autocratic as of late.
Screw standardized tests. Thats all Texas cares about.Turquoise wrote:
Maybe we should just limit it down to a few standardized tests that everyone must take, regardless of educational background. If they can pass the tests, they get the diploma. Education could be moved in the privatized and voluntary pay direction, thereby providing as much as freedom as is feasible.
What do you think?
But personally, I think some kids shouldn't even be in school. Ive been run out of one of my schools by some of the worst and stupidest people every to come to a Dallas school. They slack off, get by with lazy teachers, make out in the hallways and beat people up behind the school, and they expect to go to college?
For them: Work>Public School. Send them to McDonalds and wake em up .
Last edited by BigOrangeArmy (2008-03-08 10:01:41)
Ending truancy laws would solve most of this problem. Troublemakers wouldn't come to school if they weren't forced to.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
Screw standardized tests. Thats all Texas cares about.Turquoise wrote:
Maybe we should just limit it down to a few standardized tests that everyone must take, regardless of educational background. If they can pass the tests, they get the diploma. Education could be moved in the privatized and voluntary pay direction, thereby providing as much as freedom as is feasible.
What do you think?
But personally, I think some kids shouldn't even be in school. Ive been run out of one of my schools by some of the worst and stupidest people every to come to a Dallas school. They slack off, get by with lazy teachers, make out in the hallways and beat people up behind the school, and they expect to go to college?
For them: Work>Public School. Send them to McDonalds and wake em up .
Thanks. I like your idea of technical educations. I would expand that to kids who just don't do well in school, too, not just the poor. If they find a trade they like, it would be a much more beneficial way for them to spend their time.Turquoise wrote:
Good points. As long as these kids pass the state tests, then I guess it's ok afterall.Stingray24 wrote:
Sometimes the kids are not especially bright, but bright or not, the great advantage to homeschooling is that it can be tailored to the individual child by the people who know the child the best ... their parents. There are several very solid curriculums out there that are popular among homeschoolers. One of them was actually used in the private school I attended. I completely disagree that school should be standardized. Annual or semiannual statewide testing is standardized in many states for public, private, and homeschool students. The homeschoolers routinely test above everyone else, too. Why? Focus on the individual, instead of forcing that student to learn the way that's easy for the school and its teachers.Turquoise wrote:
I wouldn't doubt it, but are the kids especially bright? Secondly, are the parents setting curriculums that are sufficient to match the appropriate standards?
I just don't like leaving this much up to individuals. Education is something that should be somewhat regimented and standardized.
imortal did a good job putting this into perspective when it comes to parental choices. I didn't realize that California had become that autocratic as of late.
Edit: I wish our politicians would focus more energy on these things rather than just throwing money and making new rules for the schools. That applies to both sides of the aisle. If we have any chance to keeping up with the rest of the world, we must focus on educating the next generation.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-03-08 10:08:43)
Absolutely. Technical education is very underrated. I've known people that have graduated from a local tech school here and ended up with a better paying job than mine despite me having an expensive 4-year degree. lolStingray24 wrote:
Thanks. I like your idea of technical educations. I would expand that to kids who just don't do well in school, too, not just the poor. If they find a trade they like, it would be a much more beneficial way for them to spend their time.
So yeah, thanks, and I'll agree with you on that addition about politicians as well.
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-03-08 10:08:59)
The ignorance in this thread is astounding.
Then by all means enlighten us ... we seek your knowledge sensei.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-03-08 10:12:47)
Would you like to point out anything in particular that you have a grievance with?BlackKoala wrote:
The ignorance in this thread is astounding.