BF2S Forums Why do you care so much about Israel/Palestine?

Jews killed Jesus. They must die.










(Joke ha ha?)

Dilbert_X wrote:

I care about Israel/Palestine because:-

Oppressed and dispossessed people need someone to stand up for them, same in Sudan, Zimbabwe, Tibet etc.
When I say oppressed and dispossessed I mean the Palestinians - just because the jews have had a hard time, largely of their own making, for the last 2,000 years doesn't give them the right to inflict ethnic cleansing, holocausts and genocide on someone else.
If the jews believe on jew is worth fifty gentiles then they are going to get persecuted - history bears this out.

The creation of Israel has completely destabilised the Middle East and brought terror and carnage to the entire world - directly affecting millions of people, me being one of them.
The Israelis should quit stealing yet more land and make peace with their neighbours, for which they will need to make some serious and painful compromises for once. Alternatively they can STFU and GTFO.

THE JEWS’ RIGHT TO ISRAEL; ARCHEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT :Anywhere you dig it’s Jews, not Arabs, they didn’t come there until the 7th century invasion, and the archeological evidence for the Jews goes back more than 3,000 years.

THE JEWS’ RIGHT TO ISRAEL: HISTORICAL ARGUMENT. And of course they’ve had this---they celebrated the 3,000th anniversary of the founding of Jerusalem by King David, that was how many years ago, probably ten years ago, and there’s no question concerning the history of this land. It belonged to the Jews, they occupied it, they lived there, they had a large kingdom, they had many kings, and the Arabs were not anywhere near there, they were down in Arabia.

THE JEWS’ RIGHT TO ISRAEL: PRACTICAL ARGUMENT.  Historically, Israel gained its independence in 1948. The third reason that land belongs to Israel is the practical value of the Israelis being there. Israel today is a modern marvel of agriculture. Israel is able to bring more food out of a desert environment than any other country in the world. The Arab nations ought to make Israel their friend and import technology from Israel that would allow all the Middle East, not just Israel, to become an exporter of food. Israel has unarguable success in its agriculture. It’s just a practical argument.

THE JEWS’ RIGHT TO ISRAEL: HUMANITARIAN ARGUMENT. He says, “There were 6 million Jews slaughtered in Europe in World War II. The persecution against the Jews had been very strong in Russia since the advent of communism. It was against them even before then under the Czars. These people have a right to their homeland. If we are not going to allow them a homeland in the Middle East, then where? What other nation on earth is going to cede territory, is going to give up land? They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel would fit into my home state of Oklahoma even times. It would fit into the Presiding Officer’s State of Georgia seven times. They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel is very small. It is a nation that, up until the time that claims started coming in, was not desired by anybody.” In fact, Tom, it was a wilderness, and said it would be because of his judgment upon Israel. It was only when the Jews came back, the Arabs didn’t even want it, it was only when the Jews came back and they began to buy land from absentee Arab owners who had acquired this under the 400-year-long Turkish Ottoman Empire, and they weren’t even there. They were absentees, they were living somewhere else, and the Jews began to acquire this land. They paid exorbitant prices for swamps and desert, and so forth, and they turned it into something. And then, the Arabs began coming in to be employed by the Jews, to feed off of the prosperity that Israel was creating. And if you go from Israel to Lebanon, Israel to Syria, Israel to Egypt, the difference is like night and day. The Israelis have made the desert blossom like a rose. They are producing, it’s tremendous! The other nations haven’t done that, in fact, when the United States forced Israel to pull out of Gaza---you remember? I think we mentioned it on this program. In Gaza they had produced so many vegetables, I mean, it was fantastic, in hot houses. And the Israelis very kindly left this for the Palestinians, so-called, who would take over. And what did the Palestinians, these people who claimed that their ancestors founded this land--- and that is a flat out lie---what did they do? They descended like vultures and locusts and they ripped those hot houses apart, just to get the plastic, just to get the metal, and the whole industry was destroyed! Tom: The Fifth Reason Israel ought to have their land is that she is a strategic ally of the United States. He states: “Whether we realize it or not, Israel is a detriment, an impediment, to certain groups hostile to democracies and hostile to what we believe in, hostile to that which makes us the greatest nation in the history of he world. They have kept them from taking complete control of the Middle East. If it were not for Israel, they would overrun the region. They are our strategic ally. It is good to know we have a friend in the Middle East on whom we can count. They vote with us in the United Nations more than England, more than Canada, more than France, more than Germany---more than any other country in the world,”

“The 6th reason is that Israel is a roadblock to terrorism. The war we are now facing, and not against a sovereign nation, it is against a group of terrorists who are very fluid, moving from one country to another, they are almost invisible. That is whom we are fighting against today. We need every ally we can get. If we do not stop terrorism in the Middle East, it will be on our shores.” You know, people often say---now this is my ad libbing---often say, Well, if it weren’t for Israel, I mean, there wouldn’t be any terrorism, it’s our support for Israel. Wait a minute! The terrorist was going on long before Israel got back in the land that belongs to them. Muhammad declared that every nation must be subject to Islam centuries before these modern events. And if it were not for Israel, if they didn’t have Israel to contend with, Wow, we would have much more terrorism, they would have more time to spend on us. “Since it’s independence in 1948, Israel has fought 4 wars, the War in 1948 and 1949,---that was the war for independence--- the War in 1956, the Sinai campaign; the Six-day War in 1967; and in 1973, the Yom Kippur War, that with Egypt and Syria. You have to understand that in all four cases Israel was attacked, they were not the aggressor. Some people may argue that this was not true because they went in first in 1956, but they knew at that time that Egypt was building a huge military to become the aggressor. Israel, in fact, was not the aggressor and has not been the aggressor in any of the four wars. Also, they won all four wars against impossible odds. They are great warriors. They consider a level playing field being outnumbered 2 to 1. There were 39 Scud missiles that landed on Israeli soil during the gulf war. Our President asked Israel not to respond. In order to have the Arab nations on board, we asked Israel not to participate in the war. They showed tremendous restraint and did not. Now we have asked them to stand back and not do anything over these last several attacks. We have criticized them. We have criticized them in our media. Local people in television and radio often criticize Israel, not knowing the true facts. We need to be informed.”



c/p but sums my feelings up

Dilbert_X wrote:

The creation of Israel has completely destabilised the Middle East

because the region was a shining example of stability before israel...

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Which is where much of the problem surrounding Israel lies.

well, to be fair, you could say the same thing about any kind of support  the palestinians are getting from the nations in the region.  They do it because they are muslims.  I mean, arab states were constant enemies. Persians......lol.

Support? What support? The only thing other "brother" Arab nations are doing is exploiting Palestine's situation for their own benefit, and doing things which will only bring consequences to Palestine, and not themselves. Palestine has nigh zero support worldwide... This is what makes me so passionate about the subject. I have a tendency to stand up for the weaker in a debate, no matter the subject.

-konfusion

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

There is a reason we have identity politics. It doesn't matter if it's religion, sex, race, etc. It's natural and there is a reason campaigns and policies are based around it. People are generally more sympathetic to issues they can relate to. Agree with it or not, it will always be there.

For sure, but it remains a mostly illogical practice.

Although, I would argue class identity politics actually make more sense than the others, since class is the most universally defining division in the world.  In most countries, there is a continual conflict between the interests of the working class and the elite rich.

Shit, argue what you will.. it's not going anywhere. People take care of and are concerned with their own kind. It's been around since before we were walking upright. (I just watched the opening scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey ..lulz)

Um...  I wasn't disputing what you posted.  I was just stating why class identity politics make more sense than the other ones do.

I think most people care because they're supposed to be Holy Lands (yeah right, the most fucked up region in the world through out history is Holy?)

Personally, I think the Abrahamic religions are hilarious (that's right, not even crap, just damn funny) so I don't really give a shit what controls that area. Whether it's Jews, Mooj's or Jesus followers

syndicat111 wrote:

I dont really get the whole "god gave us this land" routine.  Supposing there is a God, it stands to reason that he created the whole world in equal measure.  TBH, its like saying "God bless America".  Why would this being, capable of creating a Universe want to specifically bless one (relatively) tiny piece of land?

That's called thinking logically.  Of course, if you do enough of that, you usually don't continue to believe in a religion altogether.

Turquoise wrote:

syndicat111 wrote:

I dont really get the whole "god gave us this land" routine.  Supposing there is a God, it stands to reason that he created the whole world in equal measure.  TBH, its like saying "God bless America".  Why would this being, capable of creating a Universe want to specifically bless one (relatively) tiny piece of land?

That's called thinking logically.  Of course, if you do enough of that, you usually don't continue to believe in a religion altogether.

Hypothetically speaking, of course 

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The creation of Israel has completely destabilised the Middle East

because the region was a shining example of stability before israel...

ya....simple point he will miss I am sure.

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

usmarine wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

I want to see the creation of the country of Palestine. They deserve it more than anyone else in that area.

deserve?  lulz

the world's borders were not created by "deserving" them.

Yea but it seems that the jews got their country for being "persecuted".

The palestinians are persecuted right now.. why not give them a country?

the jews got their country because the palestinians didnt want it enough. in the real world, might makes right.

CameronPoe wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

the jews got their country because the palestinians didnt want it enough. in the real world, might makes right.

Sorry GS, gotta disagree with you there. Put yourself in 1940's Europe. Did 'might' make Hitler 'right'?

no, but Allied might was right.  If germany had won, would we even be having this discussion?

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-03-09 12:31:39)

GS has a point. They fought and lost (multiple times too), that's just how it is.

thats just it, I dont see the difference between just and wrong.  History is written by the victors.  If Germany had won, I feel strongly we would have a completely different interpretation of 20th century history.



the people that were trying to kill me in Iraq felt their cause was right and just.   They still ended up dead.

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-03-09 12:37:08)