What are your thoughts? Would suspending tax withholding for one year make people realise how much money we are giving to the government every year? Would it promote tax cuts? Would it promote smaller government?The vast right-wing conspiracy wrote:
Well, it's scary that so many people don't understand it, but with 50 years of Democrat Party class envy that has convinced people that most money is government's. Do you know how to fix this? Here is how to fix this. This will never happen. Well, I shouldn't say never. But all you people, you want the flat tax or you want the FairTax or you want the national sales tax? You want to fix this? Here's how you fix it. For one year, you end all withholding. For example, if you happen to be employed by someplace that pays you a hundred thousand dollars, then every month they will pay you whatever 12 into a hundred thousand is. And then every month, you'll get a bill of how much you have to send the fire department, how much you have to send the school district, how much you have to send to the federal government, how much you have to send to the state government, how much you have to send to the city. Every tax in the world that you pay, you will be paid the gross every month, and every month you will have to pay the government. You'll get a giant bill and it will be deducted from your credit card or however you want to do it, from your debit card, or you can write the check, but you every month will be paying the gross.
If you are paid $10,000 a month, that's what you get, and within two days you have to take out of that 10,000 every dime in taxes you owe, everything you pay. Do this for a year, and follow up and really hammer the people who don't pay their taxes. Hunt them down. Make a big deal of hunting them down. Put a couple of them in jail if they are two months delinquent. If we end withholding for a year -- and this is why it will never happen -- people would understand exactly how much they are earning that they never see. I am convinced that most people think that they are paid the net in their paycheck, 'cause they never see the gross. And then they are told, "Yes, and the employer is matching your Social Security." Oh, no! When you get the ten grand every month, or whatever it would be, you owe all of Social Security because your employer is not matching anything because he's not matching anything now. It's just money you never see! You want to end this notion that there are budget cuts that are Draconian? You want to end the notion the government doesn't have enough money? You want to end the notion that government has all the money and you only get to keep what you get? You want to create the idea in people's minds and hearts, in their lives, they earn the money and it is the government that takes it front of them rather than gives them something?
Along with ending withholding, bye-bye refunds, because you're going to owe every month exactly what you owe. You're not going to be allowed to underpay. You can overpay if you want, but you won't do it this way. You make $10,000 a month, and every tax item you owe, you have to see it recorded or write the check and you end up with $5,000 by the time everybody's taken their check from you? I will guarantee you this notion of class envy and who's rich and who isn't and who's paying what, would be out the window. This is why it will never happen. It would never, ever happen. Now, those of us who file quarterly estimates because we are incorporated, self-employed, independent contractors or whatever, we already know this. We don't have to pay them every month, but you have to set it aside. You have to. It's due every April 15th. See, those of us that do it this way, folks, we get a double whammy on April 15th -- and those of us that do, we wait 'til the last minute to file our taxes so we can hold onto our money as long as we can before giving it to the government. You don't get that chance because it's withheld from you. Now, April 15th, we owe for the previous year, and the first quarterly estimate for the current year. Two checks. Next June 15th is the next quarterly estimate, next September 15th, and then January 15th. You have to set the money aside, because if you don't pay it, if you're a day late, they find you. Penalties. They track you down. Those of you who file quarterly, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If everybody had to do this, ho-ho-ho! We could take our country back.
Why would any government official agree to this? Most of them don't want people to realise how much they pay in taxes.
Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2008-03-19 22:14:24)
I don't know about you, but when I see my pay stubs the second thing I notice is how much is withheld. I am very well aware of how much the government takes.{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
What are your thoughts? Would suspending tax withholding for one year make people realise how much money we are giving to the government every year? Would it promote tax cuts? Would it promote smaller government?
Then again, for every person that notices these things, there is another that does not.
Exactly, this way people actually see how much they are giving to the government.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Why would any government official agree to this? Most of them don't want people to realise how much they pay in taxes.
Some people have direct deposit as well as a form of payment.SenorToenails wrote:
I don't know about you, but when I see my pay stubs the second thing I notice is how much is withheld. I am very well aware of how much the government takes.
Then again, for every person that notices these things, there is another that does not.
This is sort-of the same logic casinos use for poker and such. You have to use chips to bet, you don't throw out a $100 bill on the table, you throw out a black chip. For most people it's a lot easier throwing out a chip then to put a bill on the table which you worked hard for. You never get your gross check, you get your net check, you never have to go though writing a check out for the government, it's already been "chipped" for you.
Last edited by {M5}Sniper3 (2008-03-19 22:33:33)
I get a pay stub for direct deposit. Everything is itemized, right there:{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
Some people have direct deposit as well as a form of payment.
This is sort-of the same logic casinos use for poker and such. You have to use chips to bet, you don't throw out a $100 bill on the table, you throw out a black chip. For most people it's a lot easier throwing out a chip then to put a bill on the table which you worked hard for. You never get your gross check, you get your net check, you never have to go though writing a check out for the government, it's already been "chipped" for you.
Fed Withholdng <- Federal Income Tax
Fed MED/EE <- Medicare
Fed OASDI/EE <- Social Security/Disability
NY Withholdng <- State Income Tax
etc...
Would it be harder for you to write a check to the government every month then it be if your employer withheld it from your pay?
I'm already there.
I resume with holding payroll taxes if and when they seal the border.
I resume with holding payroll taxes if and when they seal the border.
I can't believe that only three other people have an opinion on this.
My opinion is it wouldn't solve the problems you are purporting it to cause. Rather the problem is that most people don't understand government has value.
Sure, I would have a more active role in funding the government. But it would be no different than cutting checks for rent or electricity each month. I see your point, but I don't think it would change anything.{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
Would it be harder for you to write a check to the government every month then it be if your employer withheld it from your pay?
I know very well what I pay in taxes, and I withhold 10 state and 10 federal..and it still cripples the mind to know what is being spent on defense, politicians' entitlements/healthcare, corporate subsidies...i mean on worthwhile government things.
god forbid we pay our soliders, allow our leaders to be heathly, or provide more jobs via tax cuts.IRONCHEF wrote:
I know very well what I pay in taxes, and I withhold 10 state and 10 federal..and it still cripples the mind to know what is being spent on defense, politicians' entitlements/healthcare, corporate subsidies...i mean on worthwhile government things.
With all the talk of cutting income taxes, why not cut payroll taxes instead? You can deduct income taxes, but you can't do that with payroll taxes.
Basically, I'd rather have to pay out less up front, if that means I just have to itemize deductions more when April 15th comes around.
Cutting payroll taxes would truly give the working class more money to work with. This would be far more effective than continuously cutting income taxes, and it's more realistic than the Fair Tax.
Basically, I'd rather have to pay out less up front, if that means I just have to itemize deductions more when April 15th comes around.
Cutting payroll taxes would truly give the working class more money to work with. This would be far more effective than continuously cutting income taxes, and it's more realistic than the Fair Tax.
Are you talking about withholding or eliminating the medicare and social security programs?Turquoise wrote:
With all the talk of cutting income taxes, why not cut payroll taxes instead? You can deduct income taxes, but you can't do that with payroll taxes.
Basically, I'd rather have to pay out less up front, if that means I just have to itemize deductions more when April 15th comes around.
Cutting payroll taxes would truly give the working class more money to work with. This would be far more effective than continuously cutting income taxes, and it's more realistic than the Fair Tax.
I'm talking about cutting SS spending, but I'm also talking about funding these things with mostly income tax instead of payroll tax. Generally speaking, payroll taxes have a greater effect on consumption habits for the average person because of their immediate effect on people. Income taxes don't generally hit you until April 15th comes around -- unless you file your taxes quarterly (like my father does).Pug wrote:
Are you talking about withholding or eliminating the medicare and social security programs?Turquoise wrote:
With all the talk of cutting income taxes, why not cut payroll taxes instead? You can deduct income taxes, but you can't do that with payroll taxes.
Basically, I'd rather have to pay out less up front, if that means I just have to itemize deductions more when April 15th comes around.
Cutting payroll taxes would truly give the working class more money to work with. This would be far more effective than continuously cutting income taxes, and it's more realistic than the Fair Tax.