blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|7072
Interfaith dialogue has become an important exercise in finding the right words to overcome both extreme violence and ordinary misunderstanding. True progress, however, is best measured in deeds. The inauguration last week of Qatar's first Christian church — a small Catholic chapel bearing neither bells nor visible crosses — has been hailed as a welcome step forward in relations between Catholicism and Islam. But an even more dramatic development is under discussion just across the border: The Vatican has confirmed that it is negotiating for permission to build the first church in Saudi Arabia.

Presiding over the cradle of Islam and home to its holiest sites, the Saudi monarchy has long banned the open worship of other faiths, even as the number of Catholics resident in Saudi Arabia has risen to 800,000 thanks to an influx of immigrant workers from places like the Philippines and India. Mosques are the only houses of prayer in a country where the strict Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam dominates. But Archbishop Paul-Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to the smaller countries on the Arabian peninsula, such as Kuwait and Qatar, has confirmed that talks are under way to establish formal diplomatic relations between the Vatican and Saudi Arabia, and to eventually allow for Catholic churches to be built there. Pope Benedict XVI is believed to have personally appealed to King Abdullah on the topic during the Saudi monarch's first ever visit to the Vatican last November.

Top Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that a Catholic parish in this key Islamic country would be "a historic achievement" in the push to expand religious freedom and foster a positive interfaith rapport. Under Benedict, the Catholic hierarchy has stepped up calls from its Muslim counterparts for "reciprocity," demanding that the same religious freedom enjoyed by Muslims in the West should be granted to Christian minorities in the Islamic world. They note that Europe's biggest mosque, built with Saudi funds, was opened in 1995 in Rome, just across the river from the Vatican.

Pope Benedict passionately condemned last week's death of Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Paulos Faraj Rahho, who was kidnapped on Feb. 29 in the northern Iraqi city. As many as 350,000 of the 800,000 Christians in Iraq before the war have since fled the country, while smaller but similar exoduses have occurred in the Palestinian territories, Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world.

While Christians in those areas trace their roots to the earliest centuries of the faith, the Catholics in Saudi Arabia are mostly migrant workers. And the restrictions on any outward manifestation of their religious beliefs have been particularly severe. The celebration of non-Muslim holidays is forbidden, as is the wearing of crucifixes and other religious symbols.

Benedict has been seen as both stumbling block and catalyst in the search to improve relations between Christians and Muslims. His Septempber 2006 lecture at Regensberg University in Germany on the relationship between faith and reason, and how it might explain religiously inspired violence, included an offensive historical reference to the Prophet Muhammed. But after initial Muslim anger at his remarks cooled — and the Pope made a conciliatory visit to the Blue Mosque in Istanbul — there have been signs of a productive Catholic-Islam dialogue taking shape. Prominent Muslim and Christian clerics have exchanged messages expressing a mutual desire for better understanding, and Vatican officials last month announced the first in a series of high-level meetings with Muslims next November, which will include an appearance by Benedict.

In little-reported remarks just three months after his controversial speech in Germany, the Pope spoke of the challenge posed to Islam by a violent minority within its ranks. "The Muslim world today is finding itself faced with an urgent task. This task is very similar to the one that has been imposed upon Christians since the Enlightenment," Benedict said in a speech to officials of the Roman Curia. "On the one hand, one must counter a dictatorship of positivist reason that excludes God from the life of the community and from public organizations, thereby depriving man of his specific criteria of judgment. On the other, one must welcome the true conquests of the Enlightenment, human rights and especially the freedom of faith and its practice, and recognize these also as being essential elements for the authenticity of religion."

After Easter week, Benedict will no doubt be focusing on his next big speech, where some of the same themes may very well recur. On April 18, the pontiff arrives in New York to address the General Assembly of the United Nations.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ … html?imw=Y
David.P
Banned
+649|6701
Right... And it will get burned down the next week.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7048|London, England
I wouldn't even give it a week
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6842|Vienna

Stupid appeasement to religious special "interest groups" and minorities if you ask me. One standard for everyone and that is Islam !!!!!!!
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6650|Escea

Let's just say its likely this church will go out wiht a bang.
Magpie
international welder....Douchebag Dude, <3 ur mom
+257|6953|Milkystania, yurop
God dammit Qatar is not part of saudi arabia , its a damm country
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland
ummm, you can be arrested for having a bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.

I will file this under wishful thinking, don't see Mecca having a Cross displayed in public, ever.
r'Eeee
That's how I roll, BITCH!
+311|6875

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ummm, you can be arrested for having a bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.
BS more?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6838|'Murka

Magpie wrote:

God dammit Qatar is not part of saudi arabia , its a damm country
Yeah...trying to figure out what the opening of a Christian church in Qatar has to do with Saudi Arabia.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6650|Escea

https://cache.virtualtourist.com/2571413-The_Cross_of_Burj_Al_Arab_Dubai-Dubai.jpg

lol the Burj Al-Arab in Dubai is right in the middle of the ME right? Yet also on the waterside boasts the biggest cross in the world.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland

r'Eeee wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ummm, you can be arrested for having a bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.
BS more?
I work with an Engineer from India that worked in Saudi Arabia for 2 years before coming to my country.  His Bible was confiscated by the police and he was thrown in jail for having it and also for chewing gum in public during a fasting period.  It was one of the religion police dudes that walk the street. 

The company he worked for got him released the same day, but he could have been imprisoned for up to a month.
This happened at least 6-8 years ago, but as far as I know it still is the same there.

I am sure you have good stories about the religion of peace helping those in need though.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland

M.O.A.B wrote:

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/2571413 … -Dubai.jpg

lol the Burj Al-Arab in Dubai is right in the middle of the ME right? Yet also on the waterside boasts the biggest cross in the world.
That is a small " t " for teflon religion.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7076

Lotta_Drool wrote:

r'Eeee wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ummm, you can be arrested for having a bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.
BS more?
I work with an Engineer from India that worked in Saudi Arabia for 2 years before coming to my country.  His Bible was confiscated by the police and he was thrown in jail for having it and also for chewing gum in public during a fasting period.  It was one of the religion police dudes that walk the street. 

The company he worked for got him released the same day, but he could have been imprisoned for up to a month.
This happened at least 6-8 years ago, but as far as I know it still is the same there.

I am sure you have good stories about the religion of peace helping those in need though.
Major Skittles appears to be correct for a change.

Wikipedia says:
"Proselytizing by non-Muslims, including the distribution of non-Muslim religious materials such as Bibles, is illegal."

"Customs officials routinely open mail and shipments to search for contraband, including non-Muslim materials, such as Bibles and religious videotapes."
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7184|Argentina
Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina

Lotta_Drool wrote:

r'Eeee wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ummm, you can be arrested for having a bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.
BS more?
I work with an Engineer from India that worked in Saudi Arabia for 2 years before coming to my country.  His Bible was confiscated by the police and he was thrown in jail for having it and also for chewing gum in public during a fasting period.  It was one of the religion police dudes that walk the street. 

The company he worked for got him released the same day, but he could have been imprisoned for up to a month.
This happened at least 6-8 years ago, but as far as I know it still is the same there.

I am sure you have good stories about the religion of peace helping those in need though.
I'm glad you realize what religious fanaticism and ultraconservatism can do to a country.  I hope you remember this the next time you feel like defending ultraconservatism here.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
The following has been edited for those without reading comprehension and with short attention spans.

blademaster wrote:

The inauguration last week of Qatar's first Christian church — a small Catholic chapel bearing neither bells nor visible crosses — has been hailed as a welcome step forward in relations between Catholicism and Islam. But an even more dramatic development is under discussion just across the border: The Vatican has confirmed that it is negotiating for permission to build the first church in Saudi Arabia.

Presiding over the cradle of Islam and home to its holiest sites, the Saudi monarchy has long banned the open worship of other faiths, even as the number of Catholics resident in Saudi Arabia has risen to 800,000 thanks to an influx of immigrant workers from places like the Philippines and India. Mosques are the only houses of prayer in a country where the strict Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam dominates. But Archbishop Paul-Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to the smaller countries on the Arabian peninsula, such as Kuwait and Qatar, has confirmed that talks are under way to establish formal diplomatic relations between the Vatican and Saudi Arabia, and to eventually allow for Catholic churches to be built there. Pope Benedict XVI is believed to have personally appealed to King Abdullah on the topic during the Saudi monarch's first ever visit to the Vatican last November.

Top Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that a Catholic parish in this key Islamic country would be "a historic achievement" in the push to expand religious freedom and foster a positive interfaith rapport. Under Benedict, the Catholic hierarchy has stepped up calls from its Muslim counterparts for "reciprocity," demanding that the same religious freedom enjoyed by Muslims in the West should be granted to Christian minorities in the Islamic world. They note that Europe's biggest mosque, built with Saudi funds, was opened in 1995 in Rome, just across the river from the Vatican.

Pope Benedict passionately condemned last week's death of Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Paulos Faraj Rahho, who was kidnapped on Feb. 29 in the northern Iraqi city. As many as 350,000 of the 800,000 Christians in Iraq before the war have since fled the country, while smaller but similar exoduses have occurred in the Palestinian territories, Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world.

While Christians in those areas trace their roots to the earliest centuries of the faith, the Catholics in Saudi Arabia are mostly migrant workers. And the restrictions on any outward manifestation of their religious beliefs have been particularly severe. The celebration of non-Muslim holidays is forbidden, as is the wearing of crucifixes and other religious symbols.
For once, I'm actually siding with the Catholic Church on this.  Reciprocity should be shown by the Islamic World in tolerating non-Muslims and letting them express their religions openly.  Until they do this, Islam will justifiably be seen as a religion of oppression, not of peace.

Secondly, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are, indeed, different countries, but Qatar is considerably more tolerant of non-Muslims than Saudi Arabia is.  That was the point of mentioning Qatar at the beginning before moving on to Saudi Arabia.

Any other questions?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7184|Argentina

Turquoise wrote:

The following has been edited for those without reading comprehension and with short attention spans.

blademaster wrote:

The inauguration last week of Qatar's first Christian church — a small Catholic chapel bearing neither bells nor visible crosses — has been hailed as a welcome step forward in relations between Catholicism and Islam. But an even more dramatic development is under discussion just across the border: The Vatican has confirmed that it is negotiating for permission to build the first church in Saudi Arabia.

Presiding over the cradle of Islam and home to its holiest sites, the Saudi monarchy has long banned the open worship of other faiths, even as the number of Catholics resident in Saudi Arabia has risen to 800,000 thanks to an influx of immigrant workers from places like the Philippines and India. Mosques are the only houses of prayer in a country where the strict Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam dominates. But Archbishop Paul-Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to the smaller countries on the Arabian peninsula, such as Kuwait and Qatar, has confirmed that talks are under way to establish formal diplomatic relations between the Vatican and Saudi Arabia, and to eventually allow for Catholic churches to be built there. Pope Benedict XVI is believed to have personally appealed to King Abdullah on the topic during the Saudi monarch's first ever visit to the Vatican last November.

Top Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that a Catholic parish in this key Islamic country would be "a historic achievement" in the push to expand religious freedom and foster a positive interfaith rapport. Under Benedict, the Catholic hierarchy has stepped up calls from its Muslim counterparts for "reciprocity," demanding that the same religious freedom enjoyed by Muslims in the West should be granted to Christian minorities in the Islamic world. They note that Europe's biggest mosque, built with Saudi funds, was opened in 1995 in Rome, just across the river from the Vatican.

Pope Benedict passionately condemned last week's death of Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Paulos Faraj Rahho, who was kidnapped on Feb. 29 in the northern Iraqi city. As many as 350,000 of the 800,000 Christians in Iraq before the war have since fled the country, while smaller but similar exoduses have occurred in the Palestinian territories, Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world.

While Christians in those areas trace their roots to the earliest centuries of the faith, the Catholics in Saudi Arabia are mostly migrant workers. And the restrictions on any outward manifestation of their religious beliefs have been particularly severe. The celebration of non-Muslim holidays is forbidden, as is the wearing of crucifixes and other religious symbols.
For once, I'm actually siding with the Catholic Church on this.  Reciprocity should be shown by the Islamic World in tolerating non-Muslims and letting them express their religions openly.  Until they do this, Islam will justifiably be seen as a religion of oppression, not of peace.

Secondly, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are, indeed, different countries, but Qatar is considerably more tolerant of non-Muslims than Saudi Arabia is.  That was the point of mentioning Qatar at the beginning before moving on to Saudi Arabia.

Any other questions?
I know, and I say again "Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia".  They won't let them build a church in Saudi Arabia, not in a million years.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
I wasn't really targeting you, Serge, but I know what you're saying.

Because it's likely this will never happen is a good reason why America and much of the rest of the world shouldn't trust Saudi Arabia.  Currently, we only like them because of their oil.  If they weren't good friends with big business, we'd have probably invaded them by now.

While I wouldn't support invading Saudi Arabia, I can't say that I'd feel too sorry for them either if it happened.  Wahhabism is a truly evil part of Islam in its lack of tolerance for any other religion.  There are various terror connections to the Wahhabi community.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-03-20 13:01:47)

rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6987

sergeriver wrote:

Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia.
did you read the article?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7184|Argentina

rawls2 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia.
did you read the article?

sergeriver wrote:

I know, and I say again "Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia".  They won't let them build a church in Saudi Arabia, not in a million years.
Hazril
Member
+5|6425

sergeriver wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia.
did you read the article?

sergeriver wrote:

I know, and I say again "Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia".  They won't let them build a church in Saudi Arabia, not in a million years.
I think Serge meant  was that Qatar as a nation does not behave, react to certain policies or have religious/cultural close-mindedness as Saudi thus " Qatar isn't Saudi Arabia"

Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland

Turquoise wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

r'Eeee wrote:


BS more?
I work with an Engineer from India that worked in Saudi Arabia for 2 years before coming to my country.  His Bible was confiscated by the police and he was thrown in jail for having it and also for chewing gum in public during a fasting period.  It was one of the religion police dudes that walk the street. 

The company he worked for got him released the same day, but he could have been imprisoned for up to a month.
This happened at least 6-8 years ago, but as far as I know it still is the same there.

I am sure you have good stories about the religion of peace helping those in need though.
I'm glad you realize what religious fanaticism and ultraconservatism can do to a country.  I hope you remember this the next time you feel like defending ultraconservatism here.
Aren't you late for smokin' your mid-morning bowl or something?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Aren't you late for smokin' your mid-morning bowl or something?
Shit, I wish...   I haven't toked in probably 6 years now.

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