Do Judges have too much power?

2008-03-26 19:09:24

#1

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

I was having a discussion with my brother about his feelings against the Death Penalty, and he gave his rationale as being that judges have too much power in deciding people's fates to allow the Death Penalty. He supported this by showing how judges can completely contradict the wishes of a jury in terms of punishments. The rationale was strong enough for me to reconsider my own position on the Death Penalty.

What do you guys think? Should we weaken judges in favor of giving juries more power over the fate of the convicted?

2008-03-26 19:11:51

#2

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6837|'Murka

I believe so. If they are tried and found guilty by a jury of their peers, then that body of peers also should have the responsibility for the guilty party's punishment.

The sticky wicket that comes into play are mandatory sentencing laws. The court would have to be VERY clear on what the right and left boundaries are for the jury.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-26 19:11:57

#3

jord: Member; +2,382|7105|The North, beyond the wall.

Yes, however people can be retards. Judges are also not exempt from this.

2008-03-26 19:12:06

#4

SenorToenails: Veritas et Scientia; +444|6557|North Tonawanda, NY

Turquoise wrote:
I was having a discussion with my brother about his feelings against the Death Penalty, and he gave his rationale as being that judges have too much power in deciding people's fates to allow the Death Penalty. He supported this by showing how judges can completely contradict the wishes of a jury in terms of punishments. The rationale was strong enough for me to reconsider my own position on the Death Penalty.

What do you guys think? Should we weaken judges in favor of giving juries more power over the fate of the convicted?

Judges can single handedly apply the death penalty? That might be a state-by-state thing, because I thought a jury had to decide if the death penalty was applied.

2008-03-26 19:14:15

#5

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

juries have the power to not find a person guilty of a crime that warrants a mandatory death sentence.

2008-03-26 19:19:27

#6

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

SenorToenails wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
I was having a discussion with my brother about his feelings against the Death Penalty, and he gave his rationale as being that judges have too much power in deciding people's fates to allow the Death Penalty. He supported this by showing how judges can completely contradict the wishes of a jury in terms of punishments. The rationale was strong enough for me to reconsider my own position on the Death Penalty.

What do you guys think? Should we weaken judges in favor of giving juries more power over the fate of the convicted?
Judges can single handedly apply the death penalty? That might be a state-by-state thing, because I thought a jury had to decide if the death penalty was applied.

It is... but in some cases, a judge has the ability to apply the death penalty even when the jury specifically discourages it.

2008-03-26 19:22:41

#7

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6837|'Murka

I thought judges only had the ability to vacate jury rulings...not to levy the death penalty when a jury didn't have a unanimous decision.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-26 19:24:18

#8

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

I thought so to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_v._Georgia

2008-03-26 19:26:09

#9

SenorToenails: Veritas et Scientia; +444|6557|North Tonawanda, NY

Turquoise wrote:
It is... but in some cases, a judge has the ability to apply the death penalty even when the jury specifically discourages it.

Interesting... I did not know that. But ehh, New York's death penalty statute was declared unconstitutional, and there are no plans to rewrite the legislation. At least, there were none as of last time I read about it. While I don't discourage the death penalty, its moral ambiguity makes me not want to specifically push for new legislation.

2008-03-26 19:26:41

#10

madmurre: I suspect something is amiss; +117|7137|Sweden

As i can see it there´s one major flaw with juries - non is the same ( which is good as well though )

2 people who commited the exact same crime can recieve very different punishments that is plain wrong. but then again judges are´nt the same either so choosing between a green and yellow banana does´nt matther the outcome will pretty much be the same anyway.

2008-03-26 19:28:16

#11

GorillaKing798: Too legit to quit; +48|6541|Tampa, Florida

Also (in most cases) who is going to give the more appropriate sentence, a person who studied law for their life and has been in all likelihood many cases before, or a group of average people brought in by the court?

2008-03-26 19:28:32

#12

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
I thought judges only had the ability to vacate jury rulings...not to levy the death penalty when a jury didn't have a unanimous decision.

That's true as well, but as far as I can tell, they also have the ability to heighten a punishment to the death penalty even if the jury suggests something like a life sentence. This is a state dependent thing though....

Of course, it is possible that I've overlooked a recent ruling that changed this... I'm still reading the link GS provided.... What say you, GS?

2008-03-26 19:29:54

#13

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

GorillaKing798 wrote:
Also (in most cases) who is going to give the more appropriate sentence, a person who studied law for their life and has been in all likelihood many cases before, or a group of average people brought in by the court?

That depends on whether you trust authority more or the average person more... I generally distrust authority.

2008-03-26 19:32:06

#14

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

Turquoise wrote:
What say you, GS?

I think North Carolina likes sending people to the gallows a bit more than most.

2008-03-26 19:33:26

#15

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

GorillaKing798 wrote:
Also (in most cases) who is going to give the more appropriate sentence, a person who studied law for their life and has been in all likelihood many cases before, or a group of average people brought in by the court?

with that logic, the group of average people arent qualified to decide a person's innocence either.

2008-03-26 19:33:45

#16

GorillaKing798: Too legit to quit; +48|6541|Tampa, Florida

Turquoise wrote:
GorillaKing798 wrote:
Also (in most cases) who is going to give the more appropriate sentence, a person who studied law for their life and has been in all likelihood many cases before, or a group of average people brought in by the court?
That depends on whether you trust authority more or the average person more... I generally distrust authority.

A jury could be just as biased as a judge though, consider race X is charged with murder of a man of race Y, this crime was committed in an area were an entire jury of race Y is selected. I would trust a judge to give a more appropriate ruling than the jury.

@ GS Appellate court anyone?

Last edited by GorillaKing798 (2008-03-26 19:34:45)

2008-03-26 19:37:49

#17

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

thats after a judgment has been made though

2008-03-26 19:41:08

#18

GorillaKing798: Too legit to quit; +48|6541|Tampa, Florida

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
thats after a judgment has been made though

Can they change the sentence? ( I have no clue)

2008-03-26 19:42:32

#19

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

GorillaKing798 wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
GorillaKing798 wrote:
Also (in most cases) who is going to give the more appropriate sentence, a person who studied law for their life and has been in all likelihood many cases before, or a group of average people brought in by the court?
That depends on whether you trust authority more or the average person more... I generally distrust authority.
A jury could be just as biased as a judge though, consider race X is charged with murder of a man of race Y, this crime was committed in an area were an entire jury of race Y is selected. I would trust a judge to give a more appropriate ruling than the jury.

@ GS Appellate court anyone?

This may be true to a point, but I trust the collective judgment of 12 people over the judgment of 1 person -- regardless of how educated or experienced that person may be.

2008-03-26 20:00:04

#20

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6873|Chicago, IL

Judges have a decade of law school training, what do Jurors have that qualifies them to decide on a man's punishment?

2008-03-26 20:02:02

#21

SenorToenails: Veritas et Scientia; +444|6557|North Tonawanda, NY

S.Lythberg wrote:
Judges have a decade of law school training, what do Jurors have that qualifies them to decide on a man's punishment?

11 peers that will argue with them.

2008-03-26 20:02:20

#22

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

GorillaKing798 wrote:
GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
thats after a judgment has been made though
Can they change the sentence? ( I have no clue)

they can reverse the entire thing

2008-03-26 20:08:30

#23

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7193|UK

No otherwise one guy who commits a crime might get a worse punishment than someone who commits the same crime just because of the feeling of the jury.

2008-03-26 20:18:16

#24

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

Vilham wrote:
No otherwise one guy who commits a crime might get a worse punishment than someone who commits the same crime just because of the feeling of the jury.

...and you don't think judges operate that way as well?

2008-03-26 22:15:38

#25

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,072|7198|PNW

Going with judges on this one. I'd say they have a better idea of things than a randomly-selected jury.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-03-26 22:16:14)

Yes	38%	38% - 8
No	61%	61% - 13
Total: 21

BF2S Forums Do Judges have too much power?

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Turquoise wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Vilham wrote:

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