The Iraq war and our security

2008-03-29 10:21:49

#1

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7116|Tampa Bay Florida

I still dont get it.

Lets say, for a moment, that our involvement in Iraq was beyond ALL doubt necessary for a national security.

BUT.

The majority was still against it.

Doesn't the majority rule in democracy? If the majority voted to elect OSAMA BIN LADEN (no, it would never happen, but stay with me) as president of the USA, isn't that the way it should be?

I hope you get what I'm saying. Wars sell themselves, and if we elect Obama or Clinton, pull out of Iraq, and we get NUKED... at least our government still respected the majority. Doesn't going against the will of the people, whether right or wrong, destroy our freedom to govern ourselves?

If freedom isn't free... then lets KEEP IT THAT WAY. I'd rather be nuked. I'd rather the USA be detroyed, than to have a government that goes against the will of the people.

2008-03-29 10:24:07

#2

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6956|Global Command

Spearhead wrote:
I still dont get it.

Lets say, for a moment, that our involvement in Iraq was beyond ALL doubt necessary for a national security.

BUT.

The majority was still against it.

Doesn't the majority rule in democracy? If the majority voted to elect OSAMA BIN LADEN (no, it would never happen, but stay with me) as president of the USA, isn't that the way it should be?

I hope you get what I'm saying. Wars sell themselves, and if we elect Obama or Clinton, pull out of Iraq, and we get NUKED... at least our government still respected the majority. Doesn't going against the will of the people, whether right or wrong, destroy our freedom to govern ourselves?

If freedom isn't free... then lets KEEP IT THAT WAY. I'd rather be nuked. I'd rather the USA be detroyed, than to have a government that goes against the will of the people.

We are not a democracy.
We are a Representative Republic.

We elect people to decide for us.
He is the decider.

2008-03-29 10:27:17

#3

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7116|Tampa Bay Florida

ATG wrote:
We are not a democracy.
We are a Representative Republic.

We elect people to decide for us.
He is the decider.

Good point.

But shouldn't the majority rule? Its pretty sad to say that just because the system lets the opposite happen makes it right..

2008-03-29 10:30:57

#4

jord: Member; +2,382|7105|The North, beyond the wall.

Spearhead wrote:
ATG wrote:
We are not a democracy.
We are a Representative Republic.

We elect people to decide for us.
He is the decider.
Good point.

But shouldn't the majority rule? Its pretty sad to say that just because the system lets the opposite happen makes it right..

Maybe the majority don't know what's best for themselves?

Just throwing that out there.

2008-03-29 10:33:26

#5

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7116|Tampa Bay Florida

jord wrote:
Maybe the majority don't know what's best for themselves?

Just throwing that out there.

So? Thats exactly my point.

2008-03-29 10:39:39

#6

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6781

Spearhead wrote:
I still dont get it..

I knew that already

Spearhead wrote:
Lets say, for a moment, that our involvement in Iraq was beyond ALL doubt necessary for a national security.

BUT.

The majority was still against it.

Doesn't the majority rule in democracy? .

The point is you " Pledge Allegiance to the Republic.." that was your big clue, you missed it !
I cant believe we have to educate this late in the game.

Spearhead wrote:
. I'd rather be nuked. I'd rather the USA be destroyed, than to have a government that goes against the will of the people.

Not I, particularly if the people are uninformed or mislead or to busy watching and listening to madonna.

this quote may follow you, have you been drinking ?
SAY YES...its an easy out.

2008-03-29 10:42:56

#7

motherdear: Member; +25|7078|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)

jord wrote:
Spearhead wrote:
ATG wrote:
We are not a democracy.
We are a Representative Republic.

We elect people to decide for us.
He is the decider.
Good point.

But shouldn't the majority rule? Its pretty sad to say that just because the system lets the opposite happen makes it right..
Maybe the majority don't know what's best for themselves?

Just throwing that out there.

agreed, as an example say that oil was cut off (of course oil is one of the reasons we are fighting in iraq, but it's also only one of many) but say that oil was cut off, gas would not only be more expensive for cars (which is the only thing people focus on) but also heating of our houses, transportation by trucks. basically what would happen without a "stable" middle east would be a total collapse of society as we know it.
food prices would sky rocket, heating would be to expensive for the average citizen, people would not be able to get around because of the vastness of the US especially (like i got 10 miles to school here and 20 to my host parents jobs, we would not be ableto get around without our cars)
so until we can get a new sustainable power source there really is nothing to do other than try and stabilise the middle east, because whether we like it or not our societies are functioning because of this energy source. it might not be right that it is this way but it's our current situation and until we can come up with something better i can not see any justification of pulling out of the middle east as long as it is unstable, there is nothing i would enjoy more than having less troops fighting and dying for our countries. but until we have stabilized the region and gotten a new energy source the liberals need to shut the fuck up and grow a pair.

Edit : sorry if i came of as a bit crude (sadly i usually do)

Last edited by motherdear (2008-03-29 11:44:05)

2008-03-29 11:22:11

#8

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6837|'Murka

Spearhead wrote:
I still dont get it.

Lets say, for a moment, that our involvement in Iraq was beyond ALL doubt necessary for a national security.

BUT.

The majority was still against it.

Doesn't the majority rule in democracy? If the majority voted to elect OSAMA BIN LADEN (no, it would never happen, but stay with me) as president of the USA, isn't that the way it should be?

I hope you get what I'm saying. Wars sell themselves, and if we elect Obama or Clinton, pull out of Iraq, and we get NUKED... at least our government still respected the majority. Doesn't going against the will of the people, whether right or wrong, destroy our freedom to govern ourselves?

If freedom isn't free... then lets KEEP IT THAT WAY. I'd rather be nuked. I'd rather the USA be detroyed, than to have a government that goes against the will of the people.

The majority was for it.

The majority is against it now.

And what ATG said.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-03-29 11:24:58

#9

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

100% democracy is impossible

2008-03-29 12:20:17

#10

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7116|Tampa Bay Florida

Hunter/Jumper wrote:
Not I, particularly if the people are uninformed or mislead or to busy watching and listening to madonna.

this quote may follow you, have you been drinking ?
SAY YES...its an easy out.

1. Then why do you love your country so much?

2. No comment

2008-03-29 12:29:28

#11

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7188

When the report comes out about 30 years from now that there is no more oil left in the world to drill for, you may understand then.

Last edited by usmarine (2008-03-29 12:37:25)

2008-03-29 12:36:32

#12

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|7070

well god damn

2008-03-29 18:15:28

#13

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6832|North Carolina

Spearhead wrote:
I still dont get it.

Lets say, for a moment, that our involvement in Iraq was beyond ALL doubt necessary for a national security.

BUT.

The majority was still against it.

Doesn't the majority rule in democracy? If the majority voted to elect OSAMA BIN LADEN (no, it would never happen, but stay with me) as president of the USA, isn't that the way it should be?

I hope you get what I'm saying. Wars sell themselves, and if we elect Obama or Clinton, pull out of Iraq, and we get NUKED... at least our government still respected the majority. Doesn't going against the will of the people, whether right or wrong, destroy our freedom to govern ourselves?

If freedom isn't free... then lets KEEP IT THAT WAY. I'd rather be nuked. I'd rather the USA be detroyed, than to have a government that goes against the will of the people.

It's really not that hard to get the majority to support a war.

Ronald Reagan once said it best: "History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap."

Aside from that, it's just a matter of scaring the shit out of the public, which (as 9/11 showed us) isn't hard to do...

2008-03-29 18:21:28

#14

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6956|Global Command

usmarine wrote:
When the report comes out about 30 years from now that there is no more oil left in the world to drill for, you may understand then.

But, that may not happen.

2008-03-29 22:43:22

#15

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6956|Global Command

But there is clear scientific evidence.

2008-03-29 22:43:43

#16

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7188

ATG wrote:
usmarine wrote:
When the report comes out about 30 years from now that there is no more oil left in the world to drill for, you may understand then.
But, that may not happen.

point is, it is non-renewable.

2008-03-29 22:43:54

#17

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7101|Canberra, AUS

They seemed to be correct in the case of the US.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2008-03-29 23:04:01

#18

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6956|Global Command

usmarine wrote:
ATG wrote:
usmarine wrote:
When the report comes out about 30 years from now that there is no more oil left in the world to drill for, you may understand then.
But, that may not happen.
point is, it is non-renewable.

But there is way more than most people think.

Last edited by ATG (2008-03-29 23:04:16)

2008-03-29 23:04:53

#19

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7188

ATG wrote:
usmarine wrote:
ATG wrote:

But, that may not happen.
point is, it is non-renewable.
But there is way more than most people think.

well lets hope so. but it will end. and when it does.........

2008-03-29 23:05:02

#20

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7101|Canberra, AUS

'Shall be expensive - in today's terms - though.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2008-03-29 23:06:47

#21

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6956|Global Command

Soon, if Bush and the oil bandits don't kill all the scientist there will be one of these in every car.

2008-03-29 23:09:25

#22

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7188

ATG wrote:
Soon, if Bush and the oil bandits don't kill all the scientist there will be one of these in every car.

do not get me wrong , I am a fan of anything besides oil. but the fact remains our world (yes not just the US) is 100% dependent on oil.

2008-03-29 23:09:45

#23

SenorToenails: Veritas et Scientia; +444|6557|North Tonawanda, NY

Hunter/Jumper wrote:
The point is you " Pledge Allegiance to the Republic.." that was your big clue, you missed it !
I cant believe we have to educate this late in the game.

I can't help but educate you this late in the game either.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I kid, I kid.

2008-03-29 23:23:00

#24

FallenMorgan: Member; +53|6341|Glendale, CA

Bush is a chimp and I will dance in the street when he is gone.

BF2S Forums The Iraq war and our security

Spearhead wrote:

ATG wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

ATG wrote:

jord wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

jord wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

ATG wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ATG wrote:

usmarine wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ATG wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ATG wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ATG wrote:

ATG wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

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