BF2S Forums http://boycottcreative.com/BoycottCreative.html :D

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

mikkel wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

I would have known much better way to deal with this. Creative should have hired him.

I'm sure Creative has a tonne of programmers more skilled than this guy. More often than not it's corporate orders getting in the way of the developer's abilities.

Then tell me why they DON'T FIX THE VISTA DRIVERS then?

Even this "unskilled" guy could do it.....

I think Creative don't have a lot of time to spare for their programming team, and they probably decided that a few wonky vista drivers wouldnt hurt them much anyway.

Lucien wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

mikkel wrote:

I'm sure Creative has a tonne of programmers more skilled than this guy. More often than not it's corporate orders getting in the way of the developer's abilities.

Then tell me why they DON'T FIX THE VISTA DRIVERS then?

Even this "unskilled" guy could do it.....

I think Creative don't have a lot of time to spare for their programming team, and they probably decided that a few wonky vista drivers wouldnt hurt them much anyway.

I know A LOT ppl who simply hate Creative because of sucky Vista drivers... It is ridiculous that they choose to ignore every single Vista problem we encounter. It is the biggest single thing that has caused Creatives reputation to go deep dive lately. If they don't have much time to program the drivers, why not have hired that dude?

Freezer7Pro wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

I would have known much better way to deal with this. Creative should have hired him.

Yes. Exactly.

And mikkel, people pay for those features, and they get them... If they run Windows XP. Yes, it's their software and he did some illegal changes, yada yada, but it was beneficial for everyone, which Creative now painfully will experience. On top of that, Creative has been lying with their marketing, as their products are not Vista-compatible.

Furthermore, you pay for the hardware, you don't pay for the drivers.

So basically you're saying almost precisely what was said before, though leaving out the part that's undeniably wrong. To what end, exactly?

People saying "They should have hired him" lack corporate insight. Creative is a $1.5bn company. If they wanted to hire him, they would have.

By the way, you do buy the software. It's licensed to you in conjunction with hardware purchase.

Last edited by mikkel (2008-04-01 10:48:59)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

mikkel wrote:

...or simply buy hardware from a different vendor.

That's all very well and fine...except Creative holds a bit of a monopoly on the high-end gamer market. Something ASUS will hopefully fix, and fast.

Yeah, that's what I don't get. There are ASUS and Turtle Beach off the top of my head. The alternatives aren't exactly in hiding.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

mikkel wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

That's all very well and fine...except Creative holds a bit of a monopoly on the high-end gamer market. Something ASUS will hopefully fix, and fast.

Yeah, that's what I don't get. There are ASUS and Turtle Beach off the top of my head. The alternatives aren't exactly in hiding.

If I want to listen to MP3's, I'll get a Turtle Beach, but their driver support for games has been far from stellar from user complaints I've read. As to ASUS, it's already been mentioned, and is something I'm looking into.

Heh, hey, it's better than no driver support at all.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

mikkel wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

If I want to listen to MP3's, I'll get a Turtle Beach, but their driver support for games has been far from stellar from user complaints I've read. As to ASUS, it's already been mentioned, and is something I'm looking into.

Heh, hey, it's better than no driver support at all.

Stuff like E-MU's external boxes are way too pricey, and the TBS-3300 doesn't even have one. I'd download the hacked drivers to thumb my nose at Creative if I was willing to buy another sound card from them.

I liken this whole thing to believing I should be able to use all the yellow highlighter I want in a book I bought from a college store (and telling my friends which sentences, pages and paragraphs should be marked) without fear of repercussions from the publisher. Hardware licensing agreements can be so mercurial that it's easy to see why somebody would try to bypass all the nonsense in their spare time.

Well, it's not quite like that. Creative's driver software license explicitly forbids any sort of modification or reverse engineering of their products at the very top of their license agreements, and while fair use is great for things like visual media, restrictive licenses are the bread and butter of IT. If you're interested in anything software-related growing, you just have to respect the licences that create the business case for companies to throw money into it. It's very different from physical property.

Fair use is supposed to be fair. I don't think it's fair if the use goes against the fundamental securities that establish the entire premise for the product. Creative is just out to enforce these securities, and to show that people can't just transgress these at will.

but... WHY DON'T THEY JUST FIX THE ISSUE FFS AND EVERYONE WOULD LIVE HAPPILY... !

no need to ruin reputation for good...

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2008-04-01 11:26:58)

steelie34 wrote:

mikkel wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Stuff like E-MU's external boxes are way too pricey, and the TBS-3300 doesn't even have one. I'd download the hacked drivers to thumb my nose at Creative if I was willing to buy another sound card from them.

I liken this whole thing to believing I should be able to use all the yellow highlighter I want in a book I bought from a college store (and telling my friends which sentences, pages and paragraphs should be marked) without fear of repercussions from the publisher. Hardware licensing agreements can be so mercurial that it's easy to see why somebody would try to bypass all the nonsense in their spare time.

Well, it's not quite like that. Creative's driver software license explicitly forbids any sort of modification or reverse engineering of their products at the very top of their license agreements, and while fair use is great for things like visual media, restrictive licenses are the bread and butter of IT. If you're interested in anything software-related growing, you just have to respect the licences that create the business case for companies to throw money into it. It's very different from physical property.

Fair use is supposed to be fair. I don't think it's fair if the use goes against the fundamental securities that establish the entire premise for the product. Creative is just out to enforce these securities, and to show that people can't just transgress these at will.

exactly... if you really think about it, creative is actually being nice by asking him to remove his modded code, etc.  they could easily pursue him legally for copyright violations and would no doubt win.

They could've been a lot more tactful when dealing with someone who helped so many of their customers out, even if it did stuff with their sound card that twirked them off. As the rep posts stand, it was very snide. I, for one, don't feel like dealing with their driver issues on a new computer build.

I suppose I should check their BBB rating out of curiosity: failure to perform advertised services.

Lucien wrote:

..because you did pay for them. Nice EAX features, sound mixer, speaker tuning: it's all on the box. There's also a sticker on said box saying it's vista compatible.

To make it clear:

-it says you will get those features if you buy it
-it says it will work on vista.

But yet you don't get what you pay for: the features that you are told you are buying do not work.

Their drivers are broken. They started off at the right level, then they broke and someone fixed it. Daniel_P did not make new features available that he shouldn't have because he only worked to restore broken features.

I have an X-Fi card and vista, and I have no problems. I can use EAX, I can use the X-FI crystalizer, I can use all the features, and it works perfectly on vista, so what are you talking about? It seems to be more user error than software incompatibility.

Furthermore, I have never had any problem with my X-FI, so I don't get why so many people are flaming creative, if the drivers are "broken" how come they work flawlessly for me without me having to tweak/edit them? I just downloaded and installed, and voila! Perfect!

So what is it that you are doing wrong?

Last edited by jamiet757 (2008-04-01 19:15:14)

http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602376/c … ivers.html

TheEternalPessimist wrote:

[...] they have a reputation of quality to live up to that prevents them from rushing [...]

Tell me that was a joke...

No, tell the Vista users.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-04-05 20:29:48)