Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland
This is scary shit people, the last time they agreed was on the War in Iraq.  The last time before that was NAFTA.  Now they agree on......

How to fix the housing crysis.  Yes, we are truely fucked.  Their solution is not to give the money of the people hurt by this to the financial Institutes that have made BILLIONS off it.

This is my general overview of how I see it.

The Problem:  Housing prices sky rocketed because people made good money on the Internet bubble and got into houses they couldn't afford when the bubble popped.  The Mortgage companies were stuck with houses they needed to get money out of, interest rates fell so people could afford them at higher prices that were asked so Mortgage companies and buyers wouldn't loose money.  Thus the house of cards was started and people started to perpetuated the problem with insane housing investments for income as mortgage rates continued to drop.  After mortgage rates couldn't go any lower the banks continued the peditory lending game with interest only loans and short term rates.  The banks made money off foreclosures and most people could dump their house for as much or more than they bought it for so they didn't worry, it was an investment.

Well, now home owners and Mortgage companies are left holding the bag because housing prices are dropping and so is job security and wages ( Welcome back to 1982 ).


Dems/Repubs Solution:  Give bail outs to banks to stabilize the economy.  No Penalties to the boards or CEOs of the banks, just the normal guys without the inside connections or means to cash out their stock in time.  So, Mr. and Mrs. X will be foreclosed on by the banks who will get the house, sell it, and then put a lean of debtiness on the homeless Mr. X until said debt is repaid while the Bank also gets money for the difference of the loan and house sale by the Government (see Tax payer, aka Mr. X).  What will Mr. Tax Payer get, free credit counseling and Mortgage counseling.  This is truely a Top Down approach, give the CEO a raise and lay off the workers while hiring the temps to replace them.



My Solution:  Bottom up approach.  Mr. X gets to keep his house that is going into foreclosure.  The Fed. appraises the house and takes control of sale of the house in that when it is sold for what ever reason Mr. X or the Bank can not get profit from it, any profit goes to the Fed and they have to approve of sale.  Fed. takes appraisial price and subtracts from Mortgage on home. 

Bank gets payout of Half that amount which is to paid back to Fed. through a 50% taxs on all shown profit by company until it is paid in full.

Home owner gets a new Mortgage at appraised value and must pay back the other half of money owed over appraised value through a 3% increase in regular Federal income tax until the amount is paid in full.

Once the Home Owner has repaid that 50% of difference between appraised value and original Mortgage through taxes or other payments, the Fed then releases the " lean " on sales of the house so the home owner can sell house for more than appraised value an keep the profits, but can not do so until 5 years has passed between the pay off date and the sale.



Of course my approach would need tweaked and modified so it couldn't be abused, but it is the general Idea.  This will never happen though because the powers that be can not profit from this system and there would actually be a degree of accountability by those involved.

Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-04-04 14:24:29)

topal63
. . .
+533|7145
Your sentiment for the common Joe, everyday man, citizen in general has been noted. Good...

The bank loaned the money - if they go out of business - so what. Let them perish (so on that I agree). But, no... the Fed should not be able to assume paper; credit; a debt that it did not issue. If the bank as an entity; interested party; goes defunct - it's simply a matter of title. Example say two owners own a corvette and one owner dies (there are no other successors or assigns). It's simple there is one vested interested party remaining and that title goes to the remaining owner. A bank has the right/ability to transfer or sell its debt paper. What they would do is sell that debt paper to another institution prior to bankruptcy.

PS: So what I could see as valuable is that there could be regulation regarding the purchasing of debt, during a crisis; a bankruptcy. That loan/interest relief is part of the debt selling; transfer; as a regulation (what the bank has the right to do is: either sell the debt, or write it off completely as a loss).

Last edited by topal63 (2008-04-04 15:10:08)

RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6906|Somewhere else

All I ever wanted was for them to agree, an+d th+is +is what they choose.  Foot in my fucking mouth.

God I hate politicians.

Course, before I give up, I have further reading to do.  But, knowing the standards that politicians conduct themselves I say: God dammit.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
My personal feeling is that we should let the market clear itself.  If your company falls because you invested badly or irresponsibly, oh well, that's the risk we all take.  If you bought property you can't afford, oh well, you fucked up.

No one should have to subsidize the mistakes of others except when it comes to basic social programs.  Welfare is a necessary evil, but bailouts ARE NOT.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command
Dude, you want the government managing everything?
Talk about a liberal argument.


Majorspittles head assplodes



I have friends in ground zero of the mortgage meltdown; Southern California.
He explained it thusly;

During the last housing debacle many well off people bought house, lots of houses. There many small players involved in building this house of cards. They bought houses for say 200k.  They had appraisers in their back pocket that helped create a false value in these properties by apraising them for more than they were worth. Appraisers are often sub contractors to companies like Countrywide Loans.
Countrywide would send their guy out, who made a percent of the loan amount. The higher the appraisal, the higher the loan amount, the more everybody made.
The press harped about a housing shortage. Millions of homes were built on these inflated pieces of land. Around here, if you have a 500k house, 400k of that is for the dirt. Cable shows were created like Flip That House. There was a symbiotic relationship between the mortgage companies ( small-medium sized private banks ) the real estate agents ( when I bought my house the lady made 12k. She worked the numbers, the apraisal, stated income, everything to get us into a loan ) the appraisers ( who made 2-3 times what they had before working for these loan mills ) and the U.S. government that through legislation allowed the banks to write questionable jumbo loans on stated income. Why the U.S. you ask? Because renters do not pay property taxes. I pay 2% of the home value per year, or $800.00 per month in just property taxes.

Theeeeeeennnnnn...
you have wanna-be land barons owning rental houses. They got any kind of loan they could to aqquire more properties. The banks, and agents and appraisers fed like pigs in a slop trough. Many of the homes in foreclosure are second homes, rentals that had jumbo arm loans that kicked in. Often, people would buy houses in the old aunts name, so when the arm ( adjustable rate mortgage ) kicked in they just let them go into foreclosure. The renters are screwed as the houses went into repo. Eviction or higher rents as banks or propery management companies took over.

Theeeeeeennnnnn...
you had general contractors and the like, buying fixer uppers, again often in somebody elses name. The would do minor cosmetic work on the house, the mortgage companies sent out their croony appraisers, the owner would refinance, take all the cash out and let the house foreclose.

Theeeeeeennnnnn...
you have normally decent people who bought at the tail end of the boom. They just wanted a house. They qualified, but just barely. Given the historical nature of things, the way they have been, if you could get into a house by any means, then withing two years your home would be worth 25-35% more than you paid, enabling a refiance even though your credit may have been iffy. We sit here, watching a house that we paid $410000 dollars for now worth $315000 with no end in site. Those that claim to know say my house will be worh $250000 next year. We have reached a point that it doesn't work out mathmatically to stay here.

So you know what I have to do? Meaning, what seems like the best play for my family?

I have to go belly up on my home while buying on at current prices in my wifes name. Otherwise, I am fucked for a decade or more. The only good news is that her credit is good while mine is being devoured.

So, I'm in a situation where I have to hurt the economy on one hand by letting my house foreclose, but help the economy on the other by buying somebody elses foreclosed house.

Or, should I suck it up, pay 35% more than my home is worth, being in a debt that seems impossible now.
A video game forum, heh. Such serious matters.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
Yeah, it's a pretty fucked up situation, but actually...  the way you describe it would seem to show that the private sector is too incompetent to run this market.  Granted, I doubt the government would be much more competent either, which is why I still side with the market clearing itself.

It just seems like this whole thing is a reflection of the greed and irresponsibility of our culture.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-04-04 16:11:26)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

Yeah, it's a pretty fucked up situation, but actually...  the way you describe it would seem to show that the private sector is too incompetent to run this market.  Granted, I doubt the government would be much more competent either, which is why I still side with the market clearing itself.

It just seems like this whole thing is a reflection of the greed and irresponsibility of our culture.
It is.

I'm guilty of not listening to the voices saying " don't do it " when the inlaws and the wife was pushing me.
I...I'm fucked. I'm one of those people now, or soon will be.


Luckily, again, my business is doing better than some. I deposited 7500 today and still have 16k in receivables and work on the plate.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
All things considered, you may want to consider moving to an area much cheaper to live in.  It looks like living in Southern California is expensive as hell....
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

All things considered, you may want to consider moving to an area much cheaper to live in.  It looks like living in Southern California is expensive as hell....
One of the features of the world wide web is that I sell my products all over hell and back. There is no place good to go, currently.

Some of the items I sell would not be available if I were to move. I make ewwdles selling curved gutter when things are rocking. I'm one of 2-3 people in the U.S. that do it.
I use a company that used to make parts for Boeing to bend the heavy gage straight runs. The used to make curved I beams for C 130's, now most of their busines is curved gutters which I ship out and others install locally.

https://www.abraingutters.com/DCP_1190.jpg

I'm quoting a job now for curved gutters.  I would net 4k in pure profit from two days work for me and one helper.


POINT:

It's not that I made an unwise decision and bought a house I could not afford, it is that the rug got pulled out of an entire industry and I can maybe afford it, but it doesn't make sense.

Further compounding the crysis.

How many people are there like me that now face foreclosure or the possibilty of it because of staggering market changes?
How was I supposed to know?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6832|North Carolina
I'm not saying it's all your fault, but I'm just saying that I shouldn't have to bail out anyone.

I think the only intervention the government should do in this is to hold people responsible for whatever criminal actions were taken that caused this mess.  It's hard to prosecute unethical behavior, but with something as dramatic as this, there was bound to be a lot of corporate crime involved.

The problem is that, instead, we're essentially rewarding corporations for unethical behavior by bailing them out with OUR money.  The fact that both parties support this move makes a strong case for Lotta.

I just wish 3rd parties were more viable.  At this point, I'd rather vote Green or Libertarian than Democrat or Republican.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6579|what

Lotta_Drool wrote:

How to fix the housing crysis.
I lol'd
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command
Funny how the  bad news seems to lead to people demanding that the government do something to fix it, or them offering.

I just don't want to get screwed/ruined.

The interest rate on my loan is 11.5%  while current loans are being written at 5.5% . My house sold 18 months ago for 410k when the same plan down the street is selling now for 325k and nobody is buying. Tough luck me, I was irresponcible I guess.

Which is why I'm saying fuck the bank. I'm gonna try to get out of this and start over.
I am open to better suggestions.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland

ATG wrote:

Dude, you want the government managing everything?
Talk about a liberal argument.
Majorspittles head assplodes
If you read what I stated, the federal government was not giving away anything except intrest free loans to the individuals and bussinesses while putting a lean against the property until the indivdual paid it back and basically having a lean against all profits the bussiness makes until the loan is paid back.

It beats the shit out of the bail out they are proposing and if nothing is done the economy and banking industry will destabilize to the point of recession/depression.  My solution would solve the current problem with no need for regulation because everyone will be taking a big hit for unrealistic debt loads.

Also I disagree with you about individual greed.  I bought a house and when I bought a house I maxed out what I could afford in a fixed 30 year loan.  I told my wife that this is a country of have and havenots when it comes to houses and if we didn't jump while we could we would never own a house.  Soooooooo you might say what could I afford????

Well I was approved for $300k, but I refused to spend more than what would be the equivalent of the rent I was spending after you figure what I save on taxes each year.  ie I was spending $1200/mo in rent so I took on a $1400/mo mortgage (includes taxes + insurance).  My house cost $168k and would sell for ~ $240k today and was sold originally for $135k when built in 2001.  I stand by my decision because if a recession hits I won't be able to afford a house anyway, but if I weather it I will at least have something.  We all can't work in American and then just cross the border when times get bad and live for 1/30th of the cost.

I can tell you where this is headed, I watch my father who owned a Dry Wall supply bussiness in Illinios in the late '70s and early '80s lose everything in that recession.  Same deal, housing was booming and he built a company making money hand over fist.  He bought a new house for $100K and in 2 years it was worth $150k.  The recession hit in '81ish and the building stopped.  He hunkered down with his bussiness until the two major employeers in the town had massive layoffs and the foreclosures started.  Within 2 years he saw the writing on the wall and lost his company.  We moved and the house sold for 60k after being on the market a year. ( he owned the house outright but needed the money )  The market recovered and that house somebody bought for $60k shot up to $100k in probably a year or two and now the houses in the area sell for $400K.

Well it sounds like you are in the same position.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7070
crisis
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6906|Somewhere else

The housing market was growing into a massive bubble, this was a long time coming, if you kept up with the subtle signs it was noticable on the horizon.  I remember My stepbrother and I were talking about when this bitch market will burst in early 2006.   The fed and the banks all said everything was fine, the raising prices were good, and everything was peachy, but alot of anylists saw it coming.

But then again, there is always naysayers, doomsdayers, and such, this time, however, they were very right.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ATG wrote:

Dude, you want the government managing everything?
Talk about a liberal argument.
Majorspittles head assplodes
If you read what I stated, the federal government was not giving away anything except intrest free loans to the individuals and bussinesses while putting a lean against the property until the indivdual paid it back and basically having a lean against all profits the bussiness makes until the loan is paid back.

It beats the shit out of the bail out they are proposing and if nothing is done the economy and banking industry will destabilize to the point of recession/depression.  My solution would solve the current problem with no need for regulation because everyone will be taking a big hit for unrealistic debt loads.

Also I disagree with you about individual greed.  I bought a house and when I bought a house I maxed out what I could afford in a fixed 30 year loan.  I told my wife that this is a country of have and havenots when it comes to houses and if we didn't jump while we could we would never own a house.  Soooooooo you might say what could I afford????

Well I was approved for $300k, but I refused to spend more than what would be the equivalent of the rent I was spending after you figure what I save on taxes each year.  ie I was spending $1200/mo in rent so I took on a $1400/mo mortgage (includes taxes + insurance).  My house cost $168k and would sell for ~ $240k today and was sold originally for $135k when built in 2001.  I stand by my decision because if a recession hits I won't be able to afford a house anyway, but if I weather it I will at least have something.  We all can't work in American and then just cross the border when times get bad and live for 1/30th of the cost.

I can tell you where this is headed, I watch my father who owned a Dry Wall supply bussiness in Illinios in the late '70s and early '80s lose everything in that recession.  Same deal, housing was booming and he built a company making money hand over fist.  He bought a new house for $100K and in 2 years it was worth $150k.  The recession hit in '81ish and the building stopped.  He hunkered down with his bussiness until the two major employeers in the town had massive layoffs and the foreclosures started.  Within 2 years he saw the writing on the wall and lost his company.  We moved and the house sold for 60k after being on the market a year. ( he owned the house outright but needed the money )  The market recovered and that house somebody bought for $60k shot up to $100k in probably a year or two and now the houses in the area sell for $400K.

Well it sounds like you are in the same position.
I am offended by your karma message. I am not blaming my inlaws. They are wonderful people and I am blessed beyond measure for them.

I was pushed. It made part of the decision.

I am not asking for government asshole to do anything. Unlike, paradoxically, you.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6610|Ireland

ATG wrote:

I am offended by your karma message. I am not blaming my inlaws. They are wonderful people and I am blessed beyond measure for them.

I was pushed. It made part of the decision.

I am not asking for government asshole to do anything. Unlike, paradoxically, you.
I feel the system is broke and something needs done.  Unlike you I expect accountability from people that fuck up the economy for everyone while they make money hand over fist on a system easily corrupted. 

And I never said anything negative about your inlaws, so paradoxically you too.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6956|Global Command

Lotta_Drool wrote:

ATG wrote:

I am offended by your karma message. I am not blaming my inlaws. They are wonderful people and I am blessed beyond measure for them.

I was pushed. It made part of the decision.

I am not asking for government asshole to do anything. Unlike, paradoxically, you.
I feel the system is broke and something needs done.  Unlike you I expect accountability from people that fuck up the economy for everyone while they make money hand over fist on a system easily corrupted. 

And I never said anything negative about your inlaws, so paradoxically you too.
Mmmmmmnnnnnnnn k  https://i19.tinypic.com/42s1u34.gif

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