You guys don't have this already? What's the difference?Ender2309 wrote:
i don't see the problem with a national ID, provided it's similar to a state ID. in that respect it could make a lot of things easier. it shouldn't incorporate all private data or RFID though.
Yep! You just haven't been caught yetScorpion0x17 wrote:
But everyone that isn't lowing is a homicidal extremist nut-job, ain't that right lowing?SenorToenails wrote:
I think that goes a little beyond identity theft... :-plowing wrote:
Unless of course the criminals decide to kill you and cut off your fuckin arm to get your info.
People are already killing for material possessions. Does the prospect that criminals would kill and use the information on the "chip", to access personal information for criminal gains be so far fetched? Really?Turquoise wrote:
Yeah, I'd say, if someone is willing to maim or kill you for your identity, then yeah... you've got much greater concerns than identity theft to worry about.SenorToenails wrote:
I think that goes a little beyond identity theft... :-plowing wrote:
Unless of course the criminals decide to kill you and cut off your fuckin arm to get your info.
He does have a point Scorp, I aint one who would be that willing to give my information out like this...lowing wrote:
Yep! You just haven't been caught yetScorpion0x17 wrote:
But everyone that isn't lowing is a homicidal extremist nut-job, ain't that right lowing?SenorToenails wrote:
I think that goes a little beyond identity theft... :-p
I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying most methods for curbing identity theft assume you're still alive to defend yourself and your accounts. If you're murdered by someone, there's a good chance they'll be able to forge your identity regardless of the security involved.lowing wrote:
People are already killing for material possessions. Does the prospect that criminals would kill and use the information on the "chip", to access personal information for criminal gains be so far fetched? Really?Turquoise wrote:
Yeah, I'd say, if someone is willing to maim or kill you for your identity, then yeah... you've got much greater concerns than identity theft to worry about.SenorToenails wrote:
I think that goes a little beyond identity theft... :-p
Who does? lowing? No he doesn't. He essentially said "If ID cards used biometrics, then criminals would go around cutting peoples arms off".Commie Killer wrote:
He does have a point Scorp, I aint one who would be that willing to give my information out like this...lowing wrote:
Yep! You just haven't been caught yetScorpion0x17 wrote:
But everyone that isn't lowing is a homicidal extremist nut-job, ain't that right lowing?
............and if it becomes the most convienient way to gain ALL your information at once???Turquoise wrote:
I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying most methods for curbing identity theft assume you're still alive to defend yourself and your accounts. If you're murdered by someone, there's a good chance they'll be able to forge your identity regardless of the security involved.lowing wrote:
People are already killing for material possessions. Does the prospect that criminals would kill and use the information on the "chip", to access personal information for criminal gains be so far fetched? Really?Turquoise wrote:
Yeah, I'd say, if someone is willing to maim or kill you for your identity, then yeah... you've got much greater concerns than identity theft to worry about.
The idea behind identity theft is that the target does not know about it until it's too late.lowing wrote:
People are already killing for material possessions. Does the prospect that criminals would kill and use the information on the "chip", to access personal information for criminal gains be so far fetched? Really?
Last edited by SenorToenails (2008-04-05 22:30:44)
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.Turquoise wrote:
Thank you, Senor. That pretty much sums up what I'm getting at.
Lowing, I know what you're saying, but murder is a whole other issue. Making identities harder to forge won't increase murders, but it will decrease successful identity thefts.
It is called kidnapping, no one is missing until 24 hours has passed. You could get a lot of info in 24 hours.SenorToenails wrote:
The idea behind identity theft is that the target does not know about it until it's too late.lowing wrote:
People are already killing for material possessions. Does the prospect that criminals would kill and use the information on the "chip", to access personal information for criminal gains be so far fetched? Really?
If they maim you to get access to biometric protected data, then you sort of know about it...
I do not believe making it harder to get the info will all of a sudden dry up a multi billion dollar a year crime. The criminal will adjust and I believe if they need access to chips in peoples arms to get information to make money, people will start disappearing. I am not saying in epidemic proportions but I beleive you will hear about murder for info on the news shortly after the chips start becoming main streamTurquoise wrote:
Thank you, Senor. That pretty much sums up what I'm getting at.
Lowing, I know what you're saying, but murder is a whole other issue. Making identities harder to forge won't increase murders, but it will decrease successful identity thefts.
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.Kmarion wrote:
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.Turquoise wrote:
Thank you, Senor. That pretty much sums up what I'm getting at.
Lowing, I know what you're saying, but murder is a whole other issue. Making identities harder to forge won't increase murders, but it will decrease successful identity thefts.
That is where we differ. I think most criminal are desperate in nature. .. No they probably don't want till kill if that's an option.. but if you make it mandatory it could also force their hand.Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.Kmarion wrote:
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.Turquoise wrote:
Thank you, Senor. That pretty much sums up what I'm getting at.
Lowing, I know what you're saying, but murder is a whole other issue. Making identities harder to forge won't increase murders, but it will decrease successful identity thefts.
Turquoise, we live in a world where fathers have microwaved their children, ID theft by murder is hardly a far fetched prospect for those who want this info bad enough, I mean shit, women are killed because they got pregnant. Why would this be so over the edge and unthinkable?Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.Kmarion wrote:
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.Turquoise wrote:
Thank you, Senor. That pretty much sums up what I'm getting at.
Lowing, I know what you're saying, but murder is a whole other issue. Making identities harder to forge won't increase murders, but it will decrease successful identity thefts.
They're desperate, but not THAT desperate. Most of them anyway...Kmarion wrote:
That is where we differ. I think most criminal are desperate in nature. .. No they probably don't want till kill if that's an option.. but if you make it mandatory it could also force their hand.Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.Kmarion wrote:
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.
I'm not saying it wouldn't happen. I'm saying it would happen far less than you're assuming.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, we live in a world where fathers have microwaved their children, ID theft by murder is hardly a far fetched prospect for those who want this info bad enough, I mean shit, women are killed because they got pregnant. Why would this be so over the edge and unthinkable?Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.Kmarion wrote:
It sounds like it would make murder necessary for those committed to identity theft. Next time a mugger ask for your wallet tell them no.. see how it works out.
I said I am not saying that this would be an epidemic already. I do believe this will add another "MO" to the crime of murderTurquoise wrote:
I'm not saying it wouldn't happen. I'm saying it would happen far less than you're assuming.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, we live in a world where fathers have microwaved their children, ID theft by murder is hardly a far fetched prospect for those who want this info bad enough, I mean shit, women are killed because they got pregnant. Why would this be so over the edge and unthinkable?Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.
I am not saying it is out of the realm of possibility. But how often is someone kidnapped as opposed to having something electronically stolen? E-crime is a LOT easier for someone to perform than a violent crime.lowing wrote:
It is called kidnapping, no one is missing until 24 hours has passed. You could get a lot of info in 24 hours.
Folks, is this sort of crime really out of the realm of possibility? Internet crime became a problem 15 seconds after the damn thing was invented. I do not have enough faith in humanity to think that this sort of thing isn't going to happen
More mind reading.Turquoise wrote:
They're desperate, but not THAT desperate. Most of them anyway...Kmarion wrote:
That is where we differ. I think most criminal are desperate in nature. .. No they probably don't want till kill if that's an option.. but if you make it mandatory it could also force their hand.Turquoise wrote:
Again, this is going to sound weird, but I would rather live in a system where murder is what it would take to steal someone's identity. Most thieves have no interest in murder -- they just want money.
Most people currently have the option to give up their possessions. Capiche? You are incesting that that option is removed.Turquoise wrote:
Most will simply go with the, give me your cash or die. They're going to want something simple like cash, not your identity.
lol.. I'm guessing your not very technologically inclined. There is always a way.Turquoise wrote:
Cybercriminals are more likely to steal your identity. If you make identity biometric, there's not much they can do.
Sure, again... I agree. I still don't see why this is a valid argument against biometric IDs.lowing wrote:
I said I am not saying that this would be an epidemic already. I do believe this will add another "MO" to the crime of murderTurquoise wrote:
I'm not saying it wouldn't happen. I'm saying it would happen far less than you're assuming.lowing wrote:
Turquoise, we live in a world where fathers have microwaved their children, ID theft by murder is hardly a far fetched prospect for those who want this info bad enough, I mean shit, women are killed because they got pregnant. Why would this be so over the edge and unthinkable?
You're going to have to explain that one a little further. All I was saying is that most thieves demand cash. The few willing and able to do something like identity theft are not usually the thuggish violent types.Kmarion wrote:
Most people currently have the option to give up their possessions. Capiche? You are [insisting] that that option is removed.
Well yeah... anything's possible. But your argument against a National ID earlier in this thread was based on the difficulty of getting enough info to forge multiple forms of identification. With a biometric ID, this becomes even more difficult, because the card would have information on it that is very difficult to forge like fingerprints, retinas, or facial algorithms.Kmarion wrote:
lol.. I'm guessing your not very technologically inclined. There is always a way.
I think lowing mistook biometric information stored in the ID to be a chip implanted with your identity.RAIMIUS wrote:
Who has proposed a biometric National ID? I've never seen any serious conversation on that.
I have, but no... the government hasn't. The actual National ID looks far less useful.RAIMIUS wrote:
Who has proposed a biometric National ID? I've never seen any serious conversation on that.