Scrapping is such a harsh word.Turquoise wrote:
The National ID thing is sort of like my stance on the Patriot Act. There are certain things I'm willing to support in the name of security.
As for the economy, would scrapping Social Security help the debt situation?
Social Security was one of the biggest scams ever sold to the American people.Turquoise wrote:
The National ID thing is sort of like my stance on the Patriot Act. There are certain things I'm willing to support in the name of security.
As for the economy, would scrapping Social Security help the debt situation?
ATG, I understand your anger at the federal government for their handling of Waco.ATG wrote:
Do you actually have any idea what your government did in Waco?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I guess Im not. Good for me.
Do you care?
Are you incapable of seeing the string that ties to two events together?
Is it only okay to kill when your commander tells you to?
I respect your point of view. We agree that Waco was a tragedy and the follow up was a travesty.FEOS wrote:
ATG, I understand your anger at the federal government for their handling of Waco.ATG wrote:
Do you actually have any idea what your government did in Waco?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I guess Im not. Good for me.
Do you care?
Are you incapable of seeing the string that ties to two events together?
Is it only okay to kill when your commander tells you to?
But just how many of those killed at the Murrah Building (and its surroundings) had a hand in Waco?
Was the decision to go in made by someone from the Murrah Building? No.
Did the armored vehicles sortie from the Murrah Building? No.
Were the vast majority of the agents who acted at Waco from the Murrah Building? No.
Was a friend's mother killed in the Murrah Building? Yes.
Did my sister's brother-in-law narrowly miss death and spend over a month in the hospital recovering from his injuries? Yes.
Did he work in the Murrah Building? No.
Did he work in a bank? Yes.
Was he part of Waco? No.
McVeigh was a coward. As much, if not more, of a coward than those who authorized the raid on the Branch Davidians. What he did was not patriotic. It did not send a message...other than irrational hatred. He targeted a symbol of the government that was tangentially related to the Waco incident. He did that rather than target the FBI and ATF offices in Texas that supplied the agents and equipment used. He did that rather than target the AG for authorizing the raid. He did that because it was easy, not because it made sense.
I was a senior in college when the bomb went off. I heard it in my senior EE lab nearly twenty miles away. I helped transport food, blankets, and other necessities for the workers there. I comforted my friend when he learned his mother was dead. I comforted my sister when they didn't think her brother-in-law would survive. I marveled at how he missed death by mere seconds: He had just left his office in the building across the street. Seconds later, his office disappeared and he was covered in furniture and glass shards.
You have one perspective. I clearly have another. We agree that Waco was a tragedy and the follow up was a travesty. But we disagree--completely--on McVeigh and his actions. He was a coward who committed a cowardly act. Make no mistake: he was no patriot.
Agreed... privatization is a good first move.Kmarion wrote:
Social Security was one of the biggest scams ever sold to the American people.Turquoise wrote:
The National ID thing is sort of like my stance on the Patriot Act. There are certain things I'm willing to support in the name of security.
As for the economy, would scrapping Social Security help the debt situation?
We need to think about the fallout as well . As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income. I'd much rather have a private firm handle my long term financial investment. Maybe a phased move to end the program. Or at the very least give citizens more options.
The government has no business planning for each citizens retirement.
"Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Davidians were shot, including five children under the age of 14, and three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The expert retained by the Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds "support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution"Dilbert_X wrote:
McVeigh was a shitball and a terrorist.
Waco was a screw-up poorly handled but ultimately the responsibility of David Koresh - also a shitball.
There used to be an old man close to my father who lived on some land we owned out of the city, and he only received $250 from social security every month. This was the 80's mind you, but he was still below the poverty level. We let him stay without paying rent, but it is sad how some elderly people get by on such meager income. Inflation will only hurt them more. I guess people will have to start taking caring of their elderly parents/grand parents instead of sticking them in some nursing home.Kmarion wrote:
Social Security was one of the biggest scams ever sold to the American people.Turquoise wrote:
The National ID thing is sort of like my stance on the Patriot Act. There are certain things I'm willing to support in the name of security.
As for the economy, would scrapping Social Security help the debt situation?
We need to think about the fallout as well . As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income. I'd much rather have a private firm handle my long term financial investment. Maybe a phased move to end the program. Or at the very least give citizens more options.
The government has no business planning for each citizens retirement.
I'm fairly sure the end is coming...or at least breathing hard.Dilbert_X wrote:
McVeigh was a shitball and a terrorist.
Waco was a screw-up poorly handled but ultimately the responsibility of David Koresh - also a shitball.
Kmarion wrote:
As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income.
If the people who rely on Social Security end up below the poverty level, it would seem logical to increase the payouts rather than drop the pension scheme completely. Just a thought.Phrozenbot wrote:
There used to be an old man close to my father who lived on some land we owned out of the city, and he only received $250 from social security every month. This was the 80's mind you, but he was still below the poverty level.
Repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.Kmarion wrote:
"Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Davidians were shot, including five children under the age of 14, and three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The expert retained by the Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds "support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution"Dilbert_X wrote:
McVeigh was a shitball and a terrorist.
Waco was a screw-up poorly handled but ultimately the responsibility of David Koresh - also a shitball.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/pdf/finalreport.pdf
So it becomes as wonderfully efficient as the private healthcare system?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed... privatization is a good first move.Kmarion wrote:
Social Security was one of the biggest scams ever sold to the American people.Turquoise wrote:
The National ID thing is sort of like my stance on the Patriot Act. There are certain things I'm willing to support in the name of security.
As for the economy, would scrapping Social Security help the debt situation?
We need to think about the fallout as well . As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income. I'd much rather have a private firm handle my long term financial investment. Maybe a phased move to end the program. Or at the very least give citizens more options.
The government has no business planning for each citizens retirement.
I'm weird. I'm against SS, but I'm for socialized healthcare. I basically feel that socialized healthcare should essentially replace the healthcare side of SS. As for retirement in and of itself, that's the responsibility of the individual.PureFodder wrote:
So it becomes as wonderfully efficient as the private healthcare system?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed... privatization is a good first move.Kmarion wrote:
Social Security was one of the biggest scams ever sold to the American people.
We need to think about the fallout as well . As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income. I'd much rather have a private firm handle my long term financial investment. Maybe a phased move to end the program. Or at the very least give citizens more options.
The government has no business planning for each citizens retirement.
US social security runs at about 0.5% admin costs vs. typical privatised social security that charges fees in the region of 10-20%. Market forces are great at pulling costs down to the minimum they can go to, but as the minimum they can go to still requires paying for advertising, CEO pay, shareholder dividens etc. that are all non-existant in the socialised government run system it ends up costing more than the socialised system. US social security is a bargin, maybe it needs altering somewhat to fit modern needs, but privatising it is a sure fire way to ensure a healthy retirement fund for a bunch of bankers, you less so. By all means have a private pension as well.
The problem with any opt out system is what happens when people fuck up? If your investments go to shit and you end up old and broke? Do you just sit on the corner with a sign and beg for food till you die of exposure?
Can anyone prove that it is a lie? Or, more accurately, prove that there is another truth?ATG wrote:
Repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.Kmarion wrote:
"Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Davidians were shot, including five children under the age of 14, and three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The expert retained by the Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds "support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution"Dilbert_X wrote:
McVeigh was a shitball and a terrorist.
Waco was a screw-up poorly handled but ultimately the responsibility of David Koresh - also a shitball.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/pdf/finalreport.pdf
apollo_fi wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
As pitiful as the plan is there are Seniors who rely on that feeble income.If the people who rely on Social Security end up below the poverty level, it would seem logical to increase the payouts rather than drop the pension scheme completely. Just a thought.Phrozenbot wrote:
There used to be an old man close to my father who lived on some land we owned out of the city, and he only received $250 from social security every month. This was the 80's mind you, but he was still below the poverty level.
I also mentioned people should be able to opt out so they don't have to take such a crappy income from the government when they retire. I don't think taxing us more to put into social security would really help, as Kmarion said it is essentially a scam so the gov can tax you more for it's current spending, and have the next generation pay it back.Phrozenbot wrote:
I'd rather take my money and invest it and make a greater return than let the government take my money and give it back when inflation has made it less valuable in real terms.
What happens when people fuck up leaving them old with no money though? Say for example that your investments go horribly wrong through no fault of your own.Turquoise wrote:
I'm weird. I'm against SS, but I'm for socialized healthcare. I basically feel that socialized healthcare should essentially replace the healthcare side of SS. As for retirement in and of itself, that's the responsibility of the individual.PureFodder wrote:
So it becomes as wonderfully efficient as the private healthcare system?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed... privatization is a good first move.
US social security runs at about 0.5% admin costs vs. typical privatised social security that charges fees in the region of 10-20%. Market forces are great at pulling costs down to the minimum they can go to, but as the minimum they can go to still requires paying for advertising, CEO pay, shareholder dividens etc. that are all non-existant in the socialised government run system it ends up costing more than the socialised system. US social security is a bargin, maybe it needs altering somewhat to fit modern needs, but privatising it is a sure fire way to ensure a healthy retirement fund for a bunch of bankers, you less so. By all means have a private pension as well.
The problem with any opt out system is what happens when people fuck up? If your investments go to shit and you end up old and broke? Do you just sit on the corner with a sign and beg for food till you die of exposure?
