wtf?abhorrent brainwashed immorality personified.
I said that BOTH fundamentalist Islam and Zionism are abhorrent brainwahed immorality personified. There is no love in either fundamentalist Islam or Zionism. Sects of hatred is what they are. Both moderate mainstream Islam and Judaism are religions of relative peace.Lisik wrote:
errrmmm lol poe, 5 pages you told us how islam is about love and now you just said...wtf?abhorrent brainwashed immorality personified.
PS: no i don't think most muslims engage in beheading, i think a lot of muslims engage in beheading and all the others just fine with it.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 03:31:37)
Grand Shaikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy, Egypt's top cleric asked: "What is the guilt of those children. Why should they be responsible for your conflict with the government. You are taking Islam as a cover and it is a deceptive cover; those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims."lowing wrote:
http://boortz.com/images/muslim_reaction.gif
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 04:49:19)
You wanna compare the 2 "outrages" and impact world wide?CameronPoe wrote:
Grand Shaikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy, Egypt's top cleric asked: "What is the guilt of those children. Why should they be responsible for your conflict with the government. You are taking Islam as a cover and it is a deceptive cover; those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims."lowing wrote:
http://boortz.com/images/muslim_reaction.gif
Jordanian government spokesman Asma Khader "condemns such acts, especially the kidnapping of civilians and to scare them in such a heinous way, even more, when most are children" saying "no cause can be achieved by such criminal means."
OK then don't listen to the highest Islamic authority in Egypt. If you think a majority of Muslims thought Beslan was a good or acceptable thing then you are more delusional than I thought. I'd bet you if you asked a regular muslim what they thought of Beslan they'd say it was a terrible and heinous thing.lowing wrote:
You wanna compare the 2 "outrages" and impact world wide?
The cartoon is true Cam
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 05:20:46)
The point is, I WOULD HAVE TO ASK!!!CameronPoe wrote:
OK then don't listen to the highest Islamic authority in Egypt. If you think a majority of Muslims thought Beslan was a good or acceptable thing then you are more delusional than I thought. I'd bet you if you asked a regular muslim what they thought of Beslan they'd say it was a terrible and heinous thing.lowing wrote:
You wanna compare the 2 "outrages" and impact world wide?
The cartoon is true Cam
You didn't have to ask the senior Muslim cleric in Egypt. Western nations are guilty of all sort of improprieties and yet, in my daily life, I don't go around apologising to everyone I meet for our crimes and shortcomings. Muslims protested those things because they felt aggrieved. Why would Muslims feel the necessity to protest the Beslan atrocity? It would be like admitting they shared some blame for what this misguided bunch of people did - a crime they committed not in the name of Islam but in the name of separatism from Russia. Are you suggesting Muslims should have come out and protested against separatism from Russia and acts carried out in the name of said goal?lowing wrote:
The point is, I WOULD HAVE TO ASK!!!
It was quite clear the MUslim words reaction to Abu Graib or the Danish cartoons etc........
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 05:34:42)
I never heard of the senior Muslim cleric of Egypt. I have heard of Osama Bin Ladin amoungst others. Get the point?CameronPoe wrote:
You didn't have to ask the senior Muslim cleric in Egypt. Western nations are guilty of all sort of improprieties and yet, in my daily life, I don't go around apologising to everyone I meet for our crimes and shortcomings. Muslims protested those things because they felt aggrieved. Why would Muslims feel the necessity to protest the Beslan atrocity? It would be like admitting they shared some blame for what this misguided bunch of people did - a crime they committed not in the name of Islam but in the name of separatism from Russia. Are you suggesting Muslims should have come out and protested against separatism from Russia and acts carried out in the name of said goal?lowing wrote:
The point is, I WOULD HAVE TO ASK!!!
It was quite clear the MUslim words reaction to Abu Graib or the Danish cartoons etc........
Should Christians have a duty to come out in protest at George W. Bush's actions given that his actions have been unchristian, although carried out under the guidance of God (as he alluded to himself) but when in actual fact the reasons are political?
I get the point alright. The media pays more attention to the likes of Osama Bin Laden, a man who lives in a cave, than it does to senior Muslim clerics. Funnily enough that has kind of been my point!lowing wrote:
I never heard of the senior Muslim cleric of Egypt. I have heard of Osama Bin Ladin amoungst others. Get the point?
Don't you mean 'in the name of separatism from Russia'? Get it right lowing - if you're going to use that example you aren't going to get very far.lowing wrote:
Why would muslims feel "aggrieved" over 1 mans opinion? and not over the attrocities committed in the name of their beloved, warm peaceful ,tolerant religion all over the world?? Seems a little lopsided there, Cam.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 05:59:47)
Excellent point you're making in the argument that Islam is a violent belief system, you've outdone yourself this time Lisik. You believe Islamic fundamentalism is to be decried for using violence in the pursuit of it's religious vision while the Zionists should just be allowed to use violence and go about their business. Your point of view has pretty much proved Cam's assertion that both Islamic fundamentalism and fundamentalist Judaism are both religions of aggression and violence.Lisik wrote:
they desidet to not let jews to come back and got theyr asses whooped!CameronPoe wrote:
And what happens to the people that live there already?Lisik wrote:
zionism is an idea to bring all jews back to eretz israel
I argued with you earlier lowing about keeping yourself open to all sides of an argument, you claimed you did look at all the angles in the argument against Islam. You claim to have built an informed opinion on the prevailing attitudes of the Islamic world and yet here you admit you have never even heard of the senior Muslim cleric of Egypt.lowing wrote:
I never heard of the senior Muslim cleric of Egypt. I have heard of Osama Bin Ladin amoungst others. Get the point?
Last edited by Braddock (2008-04-07 07:03:29)
School kids were massacred Cam, and Islam did not bat an eye. A cartoon was drawn and the the entire ME caught fireCameronPoe wrote:
I get the point alright. The media pays more attention to the likes of Osama Bin Laden, a man who lives in a cave, than it does to senior Muslim clerics. Funnily enough that has kind of been my point!lowing wrote:
I never heard of the senior Muslim cleric of Egypt. I have heard of Osama Bin Ladin amongst others. Get the point?Don't you mean 'in the name of separatism from Russia'? Get it right lowing - if you're going to use that example you aren't going to get very far.lowing wrote:
Why would muslims feel "aggrieved" over 1 mans opinion? and not over the attrocities committed in the name of their beloved, warm peaceful ,tolerant religion all over the world?? Seems a little lopsided there, Cam.
Last edited by lowing (2008-04-07 13:16:45)
If the leading Islamic cleric of Egypt was coming out and calling for Jihad I'd be on your side lowing.lowing wrote:
To both Cam and Braddock,
I do not understand when a leading Islamic cleric calls for Jihad, or death to America or Israel or some other bullshit, you dismiss it as one guy and insignificant. On the other hand when a leading Islamic cleric speaks against extremism, then this guy should be heard and acknowledged as a significant statement. You both are inconsistent with your arguments.
One man is one man.
When Islam is in an uproar when it should be quiet, and it is quiet when it should be in a uproar. I know you both understand this so stop playing like this does not happen
Here's a lesson in debate lowing. When one cleric calls for Jihad against America he is speaking for a MINORITY of Muslims. When one cleric calls Beslan an atrocity he is speaking for the MAJORITY of Muslims. You are seeking to characterise Muslims on the basis of the minority extremist figure, we are more accurately characterising them on the basis of the mainstream authoritative figure. You see where your argument breaks down null and void now? Good. Glad we straightened that out.lowing wrote:
I do not understand when a leading Islamic cleric calls for Jihad, or death to America or Israel or some other bullshit, you dismiss it as one guy and insignificant. On the other hand when a leading Islamic cleric speaks against extremism, then this guy should be heard and acknowledged as a significant statement. You both are inconsistent with your arguments.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 15:26:08)
Should Islam also come out in protest when schoolkids in America gun each other down in scores? Because that's about as connected to what was going on at Beslan as Islam was. Or are you incapable of understanding that Chechnyans committed this heinous act in their struggle for independence from Russia, i.e. for a political goal?lowing wrote:
School kids were massacred Cam, and Islam did not bat an eye. A cartoon was drawn and the the entire ME caught fire
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-07 15:39:16)
No because it had nothing to do with the religion unless you're looking for another reason to give it attention.CameronPoe wrote:
Should Islam also come out in protest when schoolkids in America gun each other down in scores?lowing wrote:
School kids were massacred Cam, and Islam did not bat an eye. A cartoon was drawn and the the entire ME caught fire
Wrong. Killing kids should never be used as an excuse for your "cause" And since when are you against Russia? I thought you liked them for being able to stand up to america? Or is this like conditional depending if Islam is involved? Seriously Cam i cant believe you'd stoop so low by supporting the chechnyans(Waits for Cam to rebut this post with either a link to US/Israeli Soldiers killing children, Saying he only supported the chechnyan cause for independence not the massacre of children, Blame the russians for the casualties, Call me and anyone who disagrees with him a racist, Sick his Brigade on me to make himself look less of an idiot, Etc etc)CameronPoe wrote:
Because that's about as connected to what was going on at Beslan as Islam was. Or are you incapable of understanding that Chechnyans committed this heinous act in their struggle for independence from Russia, i.e. for a political goal?
Did it take a muslim cleric to have the muslim community go apeshit over a cartoon? Nope They took it upon themselves to self expressCameronPoe wrote:
Here's a lesson in debate lowing. When one cleric calls for Jihad against America he is speaking for a MINORITY of Muslims. When one cleric calls Beslan an atrocity he is speaking for the MAJORITY of Muslims. You are seeking to characterise Muslims on the basis of the minority extremist figure, we are more accurately characterising them on the basis of the mainstream authoritative figure. You see where your argument breaks down null and void now? Good. Glad we straightened that out.lowing wrote:
I do not understand when a leading Islamic cleric calls for Jihad, or death to America or Israel or some other bullshit, you dismiss it as one guy and insignificant. On the other hand when a leading Islamic cleric speaks against extremism, then this guy should be heard and acknowledged as a significant statement. You both are inconsistent with your arguments.
Or are you saying that the Beslan massacre was endorsed by a majority of Muslims? Surely you can't be that delusional?
Yet they go crazy over another more peaceful political goal ( a cartoon) . to show Islam for what it is.CameronPoe wrote:
Should Islam also come out in protest when schoolkids in America gun each other down in scores? Because that's about as connected to what was going on at Beslan as Islam was. Or are you incapable of understanding that Chechnyans committed this heinous act in their struggle for independence from Russia, i.e. for a political goal?lowing wrote:
School kids were massacred Cam, and Islam did not bat an eye. A cartoon was drawn and the the entire ME caught fire
Last edited by lowing (2008-04-07 19:43:53)
And this is different from every other religion, how?lowing wrote:
Did it take a muslim cleric to have the muslim community go apeshit over a cartoon? Nope They took it upon themselves to self expressCameronPoe wrote:
Here's a lesson in debate lowing. When one cleric calls for Jihad against America he is speaking for a MINORITY of Muslims. When one cleric calls Beslan an atrocity he is speaking for the MAJORITY of Muslims. You are seeking to characterise Muslims on the basis of the minority extremist figure, we are more accurately characterising them on the basis of the mainstream authoritative figure. You see where your argument breaks down null and void now? Good. Glad we straightened that out.lowing wrote:
I do not understand when a leading Islamic cleric calls for Jihad, or death to America or Israel or some other bullshit, you dismiss it as one guy and insignificant. On the other hand when a leading Islamic cleric speaks against extremism, then this guy should be heard and acknowledged as a significant statement. You both are inconsistent with your arguments.
Or are you saying that the Beslan massacre was endorsed by a majority of Muslims? Surely you can't be that delusional?
There is no such self expression over anything done in the name of Islam, ONLY ABOUT Islam....See where your argument breaks down. Good, I am glad we got that cleared up.
Braddock this is for you as well.
The cartoon directly affects them as it stipulates in their religion that graven images are strictly forbidden. Beslan had no impact on their lives whatsoever. A lot of them probably never even heard of Beslan. People feel strongly about their faith, irrespective of what that faith is. A small number of Christians feel strongly enough to blow up abortion clinics - you can't judge all Christians on the basis of these people though. A lot feel strongly enough to protest and picket outside abortion clinics. That probably is representative of true Christianity as abortion has been decreed as morally wrong by the Vatican. Different religions have different rules as regards what is right and what is wrong. In Islam graven images are wrong and will be protested when they occur. Looking at the stats the violence you would have us believe was rampant in the wake of the cartoons was minimal and isolated. The numbers turning out to protest were also relatively small. In total less than 20 violence-related arrests in Europe occurred for a population of 10s of millions of Muslims. Funny how the numbers scotch your arguments time and time again....lowing wrote:
Yet they go crazy over another more peaceful political goal ( a cartoon) . to show Islam for what it is.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-08 00:41:21)
Neither did Beslan.David.P wrote:
No because it had nothing to do with the religion unless you're looking for another reason to give it attention.
Killing children should never be used for your 'cause' = full agreement.David.Podedworny wrote:
Wrong. Killing kids should never be used as an excuse for your "cause" And since when are you against Russia? I thought you liked them for being able to stand up to america? Or is this like conditional depending if Islam is involved? Seriously Cam i cant believe you'd stoop so low by supporting the chechnyans(Waits for Cam to rebut this post with either a link to US/Israeli Soldiers killing children, Saying he only supported the chechnyan cause for independence not the massacre of children, Blame the russians for the casualties, Call me and anyone who disagrees with him a racist, Sick his Brigade on me to make himself look less of an idiot, Etc etc)
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-08 01:17:19)
Like I said time and time again. If you wanna do an apples to apples comparison to the actions, words and teachings of Christianity and Islam, lets do it.Spark wrote:
And this is different from every other religion, how?lowing wrote:
Did it take a muslim cleric to have the muslim community go apeshit over a cartoon? Nope They took it upon themselves to self expressCameronPoe wrote:
Here's a lesson in debate lowing. When one cleric calls for Jihad against America he is speaking for a MINORITY of Muslims. When one cleric calls Beslan an atrocity he is speaking for the MAJORITY of Muslims. You are seeking to characterise Muslims on the basis of the minority extremist figure, we are more accurately characterising them on the basis of the mainstream authoritative figure. You see where your argument breaks down null and void now? Good. Glad we straightened that out.
Or are you saying that the Beslan massacre was endorsed by a majority of Muslims? Surely you can't be that delusional?
There is no such self expression over anything done in the name of Islam, ONLY ABOUT Islam....See where your argument breaks down. Good, I am glad we got that cleared up.
Braddock this is for you as well.
And plus you have completely misinterpreted the cartoons. Have you actually seen them, or heard the words of the author?
