You raise an important and often overlooked point about this argument...the actual desire to take it over. Lowing and Lotta_Drool would have us believe every Muslim is hell bent on implementing Shariah law, I simply don't think the desire to do such a thing even exists among the majority of Muslims, I mean why not just stay at home in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan if that's what you're after?Hazril wrote:
We will not take over Europe.
Never wanted to.
Never will.
Poll
Will Islam Take Over Europe?
| Yes | 27% | 27% - 26 | ||||
| No | 72% | 72% - 70 | ||||
| Total: 96 | ||||||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#HistoryHazril wrote:
Never wanted to.
Mek-owned
I'm still waiting on your 'Ten Easy Steps To A Shariah Europe' guide by the way.usmarine wrote:
Mek-owned
keep waiting
I won't hold my breath. Hopefully your silence will illustrate for people just how logistically impossible it would actually be for Islam to take over Europe. Not one person has put forward a possible scenario that might lead to such a thing...the closest anyone has come has been some projected figures for Islamic birth rates over an extended period of time (birth rates being notoriously hard to predict for anything over a few generations given the number of variables involved).usmarine wrote:
keep waiting
...but hey let's keep shitting our pants every time a Muslim asks for access to a prayer room or complains about wanting to do his driver's exam in Farsi shall we?
Last edited by Braddock (2008-04-07 17:11:06)
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
The Irish harp is on the back of your EURO ....THAT is the point.Braddock wrote:
Did we give up our monetary identity? That's funny because there are Irish harps on the back of the Euros in my pocket. Our borders aren't becoming too blurry just yet lowing, they're only blurry if you are European and have an EU passport...something the Afghani guy on the bus between Germany and Poland found out when he was hauled off and taken away during my flatmate's recent visit! You do realise Berlin has a population of nearly three and a half million don't you? When I was in Berlin there were still plenty of good, clean Aryan types, don't worry. You seem to totally negate the idea that ANY integration whatsoever takes place within the Muslim community; by the time Muslims here can actually vote in our countries a certain amount of integration has already taken place (you don't get given a vote as soon as you get off the boat).lowing wrote:
Why not, you already gave up your monitary identity. You are becoming more like the US every decade. Your borders are becoming blurred just like individual states, and we have Mexicans taking over. Berlin according to B.Schuss has 200,000 Muslims in it, are you honestly telling me these people are invisible? Are you telling me they can not or will not influence elections and file suits that fit their needs instead of the needs of the people? Denial and delussional.
As far appeasement, http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article. … OKLAH23086 Nehhhhhh, you guys are right, they are not wanting appeasement, they want to just "blend in"
Btw love the story about the Farsi driving exams, let me know when that one goes to court.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … turk27.xml
"Asked by teachers what they thought of the murder, several 13-year-old pupils are said to have implied that they thought Mrs Sürücü had "earned" her death. "Well, she lived like a German, didn't she?" remarked one. Mrs Sürücü got married in Turkey at the age of 15 but returned with her son to her birthplace, Berlin, more than five years ago."
Please read this article fully, it seems you are disagreed with by people in the real world. The point being, it isn't what you THINK integration means in a society that matters, it is the atitude of the immigrant that counts.
Last edited by lowing (2008-04-07 18:13:29)
This I am getting sick of. Please tell me where I state that "EVERY Muslim" is included in any of my posts, or I endorse Naziesque genocide, etc..... If you can not, then please refrain from exaggerating my points to try and prove yours.Braddock wrote:
You raise an important and often overlooked point about this argument...the actual desire to take it over. Lowing and Lotta_Drool would have us believe every Muslim is hell bent on implementing Shariah law, I simply don't think the desire to do such a thing even exists among the majority of Muslims, I mean why not just stay at home in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan if that's what you're after?Hazril wrote:
We will not take over Europe.
Never wanted to.
Never will.
Islam has about the same chance of taking over Europe as becoming the official US religion.
Like Americans, Europeans like Titties 'n Beer too much.
Like Americans, Europeans like Titties 'n Beer too much.
I like Guinness.usmarine wrote:
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
yuckFatherTed wrote:
I like Guinness.usmarine wrote:
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
What's your poison?usmarine wrote:
yuckFatherTed wrote:
I like Guinness.usmarine wrote:
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
FatherTed wrote:
What's your poison?
I havent had a drink in months
yuckusmarine wrote:
http://joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/ … s_beer.gifFatherTed wrote:
What's your poison?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Not yet anyway. So null.
I don't mind having Euro's instead of punts lowing, it makes economic sense and it is sure is handy when I'm touring around the beautiful continent that is Europelowing wrote:
The Irish harp is on the back of your EURO ....THAT is the point.Braddock wrote:
Did we give up our monetary identity? That's funny because there are Irish harps on the back of the Euros in my pocket. Our borders aren't becoming too blurry just yet lowing, they're only blurry if you are European and have an EU passport...something the Afghani guy on the bus between Germany and Poland found out when he was hauled off and taken away during my flatmate's recent visit! You do realise Berlin has a population of nearly three and a half million don't you? When I was in Berlin there were still plenty of good, clean Aryan types, don't worry. You seem to totally negate the idea that ANY integration whatsoever takes place within the Muslim community; by the time Muslims here can actually vote in our countries a certain amount of integration has already taken place (you don't get given a vote as soon as you get off the boat).lowing wrote:
Why not, you already gave up your monitary identity. You are becoming more like the US every decade. Your borders are becoming blurred just like individual states, and we have Mexicans taking over. Berlin according to B.Schuss has 200,000 Muslims in it, are you honestly telling me these people are invisible? Are you telling me they can not or will not influence elections and file suits that fit their needs instead of the needs of the people? Denial and delussional.
As far appeasement, http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article. … OKLAH23086 Nehhhhhh, you guys are right, they are not wanting appeasement, they want to just "blend in"
Btw love the story about the Farsi driving exams, let me know when that one goes to court.
Congratulations lowing, you've finally posted a story worthy of speaking out against...took you long enough. Here you have presented an example of something that has no place in our society: honour killings. But the thing is (I don't know if you've ever been to Europe but go with me on this) the countries here have things called 'legal systems' and they deal with murders. I don't think you'll find any constitutional amendments legalising honour killings being passed any time soon.lowing wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/27/wturk27.xml
"Asked by teachers what they thought of the murder, several 13-year-old pupils are said to have implied that they thought Mrs Sürücü had "earned" her death. "Well, she lived like a German, didn't she?" remarked one. Mrs Sürücü got married in Turkey at the age of 15 but returned with her son to her birthplace, Berlin, more than five years ago."
Please read this article fully, it seems you are disagreed with by people in the real world. The point being, it isn't what you THINK integration means in a society that matters, it is the atitude of the immigrant that counts.
You're just bitter because Americans can't drink! Have a lager shandy and think about that!usmarine wrote:
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
tru dat.Braddock wrote:
You're just bitter because Americans can't drink! Have a lager shandy and think about that!usmarine wrote:
well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it? Someone has to be the opposition. Now sip another guinness and think about it.
I met some Americans in France last summer, and they were like my age.
Couldn't drink for shite the poor bastards, bless em.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Magners (Bulmers) is the best thing to have ever come out of Ireland. Fact.
I'd side with Guinness and Boxty kthxMek-Izzle wrote:
Magners (Bulmers) is the best thing to have ever come out of Ireland. Fact.
Also, Ulster Fry.
nom nom nom
Last edited by FatherTed (2008-04-08 04:32:50)
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
lol.usmarine wrote:
yesBraddock wrote:
You honestly think we'll allow our traditional systems of Government to give way to Shariah Government in order to appease the Muslim population...honestly?
Yeah...please rule over us oh Muslim minority, please, we're such liberal European pussies we'd rather you rule over us as the infidels we are rather than offend your sensibilities!Vilham wrote:
lol.usmarine wrote:
yesBraddock wrote:
You honestly think we'll allow our traditional systems of Government to give way to Shariah Government in order to appease the Muslim population...honestly?
I voted no. The size of the muslim community in europe is simply not significant enough to grant them enough voting power to change our societies through the democratic process. Let alone the fact that of the muslims living here, only a small ( ridiculously small ) minority is actually politically active.
They don't even have a political party to represent them. And I am not so sure they would want to change anything, even if they could. Most of them enjoy the secular life they can live here in europe, free to practise their religion as they see fit. None of the muslims I know would want to have scharia law in europe.
Also, europeans have fought too hard and suffered too much in the past to allow anyone to take away the accomplishments of liberalism, and democracy. The idea that we would allow muslims to do so is absurd, mildly put...
It is true that we are facing big challenges with regard to integration. It is also true that for too long, we have allowed the immigrants to live next to us without really getting to know them ( or wanting to do so ), and that we have allowed them to form parallel societies, knowingly or unknowingly. These are issues that need to be addressed, undoubtedly.
But we are not going to address them through isolation, or confrontation. These people don't present a threat, they present opportunities.
They are our fellow europeans, plainly put.
Certainly, the process of integration willl prove to be difficult. In some areas, compromises will have to be made.
But I am confident that we can achieve that without changing our legal system, or laws, or constitutions. Because that would be a compromise that I would be unwilling to make. And I don't think it has happened yet, or will happen at all.
Our identity is formed by our values, and the laws of the land. And those remain unchanged.
They don't even have a political party to represent them. And I am not so sure they would want to change anything, even if they could. Most of them enjoy the secular life they can live here in europe, free to practise their religion as they see fit. None of the muslims I know would want to have scharia law in europe.
Also, europeans have fought too hard and suffered too much in the past to allow anyone to take away the accomplishments of liberalism, and democracy. The idea that we would allow muslims to do so is absurd, mildly put...
It is true that we are facing big challenges with regard to integration. It is also true that for too long, we have allowed the immigrants to live next to us without really getting to know them ( or wanting to do so ), and that we have allowed them to form parallel societies, knowingly or unknowingly. These are issues that need to be addressed, undoubtedly.
But we are not going to address them through isolation, or confrontation. These people don't present a threat, they present opportunities.
They are our fellow europeans, plainly put.
Certainly, the process of integration willl prove to be difficult. In some areas, compromises will have to be made.
But I am confident that we can achieve that without changing our legal system, or laws, or constitutions. Because that would be a compromise that I would be unwilling to make. And I don't think it has happened yet, or will happen at all.
Our identity is formed by our values, and the laws of the land. And those remain unchanged.