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2008-04-13 13:11:37
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|7022|Texas - Bigger than France
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC

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"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the the flag."
__________________

Discuss.

Ps. You flag burners suck
2008-04-13 13:16:05
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7036
Domestic flag burning sucks.

Freedom of expression is paramount however.

At the end of the day flags are just symbols printed on a piece of cloth. They aren't what the soldier is fighting for. The nation is far more than just a flimsy piece of cloth. The nation is the people and it is those things such as freedom of expression, which define the nation, that the soldier fights for.

Burning flags is tasteless but if people think they look smart doing it then I say let them have their 'fun', they aren't hurting anyone and they just make themselves look like idiots.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-13 13:16:55)

2008-04-13 13:23:40
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7036

pierro wrote:

The phrase that sums it up the most is that people who oppose flag burning care more about the flag itself then the freedom it represents
Couldn't have put it better myself.
2008-04-13 13:23:41
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|7022|Texas - Bigger than France
Ps. I looked up this quote, it was featured as part of the US Navy's Blue Angel show on the airbase in my town.  Most of the crowd clapped solemnly, including me.

Seemed appropriate because of some related topics.
2008-04-13 13:25:20
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7238|Argentina

pierro wrote:

The phrase that sums it up the most is that people who oppose flag burning care more about the flag itself then the freedom it represents
QFT
2008-04-13 13:26:52
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire
Who cares if some idiot wants to burn a piece of cloth that was made in China? That's a very small price for freedom of speech in my book, which is something I greatly appreciate having.

You can start panicking and complaining when someone starts trying to attack or dismantle the things the flag stands for. Ironically, burning the flag is a perfect metaphor for all the freedoms the flag represents.
2008-04-13 13:33:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7131|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

pierro wrote:

The phrase that sums it up the most is that people who oppose flag burning care more about the flag itself then the freedom it represents
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Well then now that ya have that cleared up, I suppose you can all agree on supporting on the WBC and their "freedom" to protest fallen soldiers funerals. After all they are not physically hurting anyone. Congrats guys, how proud you must be on your position on this issue.

Now ya know why I hate liberals

Last edited by lowing (2008-04-13 13:34:18)

2008-04-13 13:37:50
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7165|United States of America
The flag is a symbol (duh). Destroying that symbol is the paramount to destroying all it stands for. God damn it though, because I can't legally stop it no matter how much I oppose the action (by individuals of this country, could care less anywhere else).
2008-04-13 13:39:39
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

pierro wrote:

The phrase that sums it up the most is that people who oppose flag burning care more about the flag itself then the freedom it represents
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Well then now that ya have that cleared up, I suppose you can all agree on supporting on the WBC and their "freedom" to protest fallen soldiers funerals. After all they are not physically hurting anyone. Congrats guys, how proud you must be on your position on this issue.

Now ya know why I hate liberals
Lowing, everyone here so far has said that only spastics burn the flag...their point is that it is allowed under laws regarding freedom of expression and this is a small price to pay for such great freedoms. Now the WBC are even more spasticated in what they do, they're a bunch of idiots; I dislike what they do because it is just heartless and cruel (even if you disagree with the war or the Government). But if the laws of your land allow them to do it...well that's a shame but at least you don't live in a country where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions.

Would you like to live in an America where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions lowing?

Last edited by Braddock (2008-04-13 13:40:31)

2008-04-13 13:43:40
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7131|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Couldn't have put it better myself.
Well then now that ya have that cleared up, I suppose you can all agree on supporting on the WBC and their "freedom" to protest fallen soldiers funerals. After all they are not physically hurting anyone. Congrats guys, how proud you must be on your position on this issue.

Now ya know why I hate liberals
Lowing, everyone here so far has said that only spastics burn the flag...their point is that it is allowed under laws regarding freedom of expression and this is a small price to pay for such great freedoms. Now the WBC are even more spasticated in what they do, they're a bunch of idiots; I dislike what they do because it is just heartless and cruel (even if you disagree with the war or the Government). But if the laws of your land allow them to do it...well that's a shame but at least you don't live in a country where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions.

Would you like to live in an America where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions lowing?
Freedom is not unconditional Braddock and un-restricted. Based on your argument I have the right to yell fire in a theater.

Flag burning and the WBC is not an example of freedom. It is an example of a twisted and false sense of the word. Not what was intended by our Constitution
2008-04-13 13:44:13
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire

DesertFox- wrote:

The flag is a symbol (duh). Destroying that symbol is the paramount to destroying all it stands for. God damn it though, because I can't legally stop it no matter how much I oppose the action (by individuals of this country, could care less anywhere else).
No it's not DesertFox, it's tantamount to burning a piece of cloth...that's it and that's all. It's offensive and could be regarded as being in bad taste but that's about it. Do you know how effective such an action is at destroying all the things the flag stands for? It's so effective that if you ignore it the action may as well never have taken place at all.
2008-04-13 13:47:10
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:


Well then now that ya have that cleared up, I suppose you can all agree on supporting on the WBC and their "freedom" to protest fallen soldiers funerals. After all they are not physically hurting anyone. Congrats guys, how proud you must be on your position on this issue.

Now ya know why I hate liberals
Lowing, everyone here so far has said that only spastics burn the flag...their point is that it is allowed under laws regarding freedom of expression and this is a small price to pay for such great freedoms. Now the WBC are even more spasticated in what they do, they're a bunch of idiots; I dislike what they do because it is just heartless and cruel (even if you disagree with the war or the Government). But if the laws of your land allow them to do it...well that's a shame but at least you don't live in a country where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions.

Would you like to live in an America where you are not allowed to express your views and opinions lowing?
Freedom is not unconditional Braddock and un-restricted. Based on your argument I have the right to yell fire in a theater.

Flag burning and the WBC is not an example of freedom. It is an example of a twisted and false sense of the word. Not what was intended by our Constitution
If your constitution had any 'intention' towards such a thing it would be against the law...the fact is it is not against the law.

I agree that flag burning and the actions of the WBC are idiotic expressions of freedom but there's no accounting for idiocy in a free and democratic society.
2008-04-13 13:48:10
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7131|USA

Braddock wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

The flag is a symbol (duh). Destroying that symbol is the paramount to destroying all it stands for. God damn it though, because I can't legally stop it no matter how much I oppose the action (by individuals of this country, could care less anywhere else).
No it's not DesertFox, it's tantamount to burning a piece of cloth...that's it and that's all. It's offensive and could be regarded as being in bad taste but that's about it. Do you know how effective such an action is at destroying all the things the flag stands for? It's so effective that if you ignore it the action may as well never have taken place at all.
yeah and burning my house down is tantamount to just burning wood and paper, it is not arson, and there is nothing illegal about a nice bon fire is there?
2008-04-13 13:52:48
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|7022|Texas - Bigger than France

Braddock wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

The flag is a symbol (duh). Destroying that symbol is the paramount to destroying all it stands for. God damn it though, because I can't legally stop it no matter how much I oppose the action (by individuals of this country, could care less anywhere else).
No it's not DesertFox, it's tantamount to burning a piece of cloth...that's it and that's all. It's offensive and could be regarded as being in bad taste but that's about it. Do you know how effective such an action is at destroying all the things the flag stands for? It's so effective that if you ignore it the action may as well never have taken place at all.
How is it "bad taste" if you only consider it a piece of cloth?

Its demonstration and a statement.  The thought is why not do something else to demonstrate?

Everyone is allowed to demonstrate, just as everyone is allowed to disagree with the demonstrator.

Kind of simplistic and everyone knows this, but there it is....
2008-04-13 13:55:24
Major.League.Infidel
Make Love and War
+303|6958|Communist Republic of CA, USA
Flag burners are fools.  They disrespect the nation that gives them the right to burn the flag.  If they really don't like the government that much, than by all means, here's the door, have a nice day.  But no, they'll continue to reap all the benefits they can while bitching about everything.
2008-04-13 13:57:22
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|7018|Long Island, New York

Major.League.Infidel wrote:

Flag burners are fools.  They disrespect the nation that gives them the right to burn the flag.  If they really don't like the government that much, than by all means, here's the door, have a nice day.  But no, they'll continue to reap all the benefits they can while bitching about everything.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
2008-04-13 13:57:45
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|7022|Texas - Bigger than France

Major.League.Infidel wrote:

Flag burners are fools.  They disrespect the nation that gives them the right to burn the flag.  If they really don't like the government that much, than by all means, here's the door, have a nice day.  But no, they'll continue to reap all the benefits they can while bitching about everything.
And that is why I want you to blow them away.


Seriously.
2008-04-13 14:01:06
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7036

lowing wrote:

Well then now that ya have that cleared up, I suppose you can all agree on supporting on the WBC and their "freedom" to protest fallen soldiers funerals. After all they are not physically hurting anyone. Congrats guys, how proud you must be on your position on this issue.
Now ya know why I hate liberals
Does anyone take the WBC seriously? No. I think everyone black, white, yellow, green, blue, finds them disgraceful/tragic. You truly are unAmerican. You should move somewhere where freedom of speech has been outlawed. You're a bag of contradictions: proclaiming the rights of the individual and freedom from government interference on the one hand and then disparaging freedom of expression on the other. What a confused man you are.

People print offensive cartoons about Islam on one hand and you place them on some kind of freedom of speech pedestal and then you drop those principles when it comes to other forms of free speech.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-13 14:03:27)

2008-04-13 14:07:08
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

The flag is a symbol (duh). Destroying that symbol is the paramount to destroying all it stands for. God damn it though, because I can't legally stop it no matter how much I oppose the action (by individuals of this country, could care less anywhere else).
No it's not DesertFox, it's tantamount to burning a piece of cloth...that's it and that's all. It's offensive and could be regarded as being in bad taste but that's about it. Do you know how effective such an action is at destroying all the things the flag stands for? It's so effective that if you ignore it the action may as well never have taken place at all.
yeah and burning my house down is tantamount to just burning wood and paper, it is not arson, and there is nothing illegal about a nice bon fire is there?
If the fire is a risk to public safety then prosecute under those laws by all means.
2008-04-13 14:09:06
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7131|USA

pierro wrote:

lowling wrote:

Freedom is not unconditional Braddock and un-restricted. Based on your argument I have the right to yell fire in a theater.

Flag burning and the WBC is not an example of freedom. It is an example of a twisted and false sense of the word. Not what was intended by our Constitution.
You seem to be trying to go slippery slope with flag burning....it could lead to people yelling fire in theaters, but what would happen if we went slippery slope the other way it would be 1984. If you want to group flag burning and protesting at soldiers funerals together, then why can't I group flag burning and freedom of the press together?
IS there a basic difference between flag burning and protesting a soldiers funeral? If so I am all ears.

Be my guest group flag burning and the freedom of the press, just put it in perspective for me.
2008-04-13 14:11:29
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7131|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:


No it's not DesertFox, it's tantamount to burning a piece of cloth...that's it and that's all. It's offensive and could be regarded as being in bad taste but that's about it. Do you know how effective such an action is at destroying all the things the flag stands for? It's so effective that if you ignore it the action may as well never have taken place at all.
yeah and burning my house down is tantamount to just burning wood and paper, it is not arson, and there is nothing illegal about a nice bon fire is there?
If the fire is a risk to public safety then prosecute under those laws by all means.
And if it is not then it is ok? Sounds great, I already live in a secluded nieghborhood with no chance that the fire can spread to any of their houses. I just need to make sure no one gets hurt right, then I am just burning wood and not comitting arson?
2008-04-13 14:14:16
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire
Cameronpoe raised the same point I was about to raise with you lowing. You cry blue murder at someone exercising their freedom of speech to burn the flag and yet you believe people should be allowed to publish offensive pictures of Allah.

You completely contradict yourself sometimes lowing. The Muslim attitude towards the cartoons is the same attitude your displaying towards the burning of the flag. I believe in free speech and freedom of expression and accept that these two things might occur but I would personally advise the common sense approach of not doing either of these things by personal choice.
2008-04-13 14:15:34
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6770|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:


yeah and burning my house down is tantamount to just burning wood and paper, it is not arson, and there is nothing illegal about a nice bon fire is there?
If the fire is a risk to public safety then prosecute under those laws by all means.
And if it is not then it is ok? Sounds great, I already live in a secluded nieghborhood with no chance that the fire can spread to any of their houses. I just need to make sure no one gets hurt right, then I am just burning wood and not comitting arson?
Prosecute under arson laws if you can make the charge stick lowing.
2008-04-13 14:17:57
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6804|New Haven, CT
Flag burning is an extremely effective way for protest groups to get attention. I wonder how much they actually care about the symbolism of their actions, in relation to the media attention they get for doing so.
2008-04-13 14:27:34
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7036

lowing wrote:

And if it is not then it is ok? Sounds great, I already live in a secluded nieghborhood with no chance that the fire can spread to any of their houses. I just need to make sure no one gets hurt right, then I am just burning wood and not comitting arson?
It appears lowing is drifting further and further from reality with every passing post. Are you seriously likening the threat of a fire spreading from a burnt cloth to that of a burning building? This getting hilarious.

lowing - you seem to be the most anal person on earth. What is the big fucking deal about some random idiots burning flags? You blow things so way out of proportion you'd think the non-burning of flags is what populates the earth's atmosphere with oxygen! For a man who bleats on about personal freedoms so much you must have to do some serious reconciliation inside your own head before you speak/post sometimes.

Idiots burn flags. Nobody gets hurt. Big fucking deal. Get the fuck over it you statist cry baby.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-13 14:28:15)

 

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