BF2S Forums Is Obama a worse public speaker than Bush?!

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It could also be viewed as implying that those people in those small towns aren't smart enough to realize the true causes of their woes, so they "cling to guns (2nd Amendment) or religion (1st Amendment) or antipathy to people...(they're racists)".

Yeah...not sure why anyone would get bent out of shape over that.

Considering how well that describes a lot of rural people, I'm sure it got under their skin.

Again, I'm not saying it was a politically smart move, but it was honest.

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It could also be viewed as implying that those people in those small towns aren't smart enough to realize the true causes of their woes, so they "cling to guns (2nd Amendment) or religion (1st Amendment) or antipathy to people...(they're racists)".

Yeah...not sure why anyone would get bent out of shape over that.

Considering how well that describes a lot of rural people, I'm sure it got under their skin.

Again, I'm not saying it was a politically smart move, but it was honest.

It also describes a lot of urban people. It was only honest in the sense that it's what he really thinks...not in the sense that it's accurate.

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

During his talk at Saturday's Fourth District Lincoln/Reagan Day Dinner in Boone County Davis, a Hebron Republican seeking re-election, made the following comment when questioning the national security credentials and experience of Obama, an African-American from Illinois:

"I'm going to tell you something: That boy's finger does not need to be on the button," Davis said. "He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country."

FEOS wrote:

If he had inserted the words "issues like" after "cling to" and changed "their guns" to "gun control" (see where I'm going here?)...it would've been crystal clear. But that's not what he said, and even in the context of the larger discussion, it can be interpreted either way.

I guess even polished, eloquent speakers can step on their crank in public...

Last edited by Masques (2008-04-15 11:23:33)

Masques wrote:

FEOS wrote:

If he had inserted the words "issues like" after "cling to" and changed "their guns" to "gun control" (see where I'm going here?)...it would've been crystal clear. But that's not what he said, and even in the context of the larger discussion, it can be interpreted either way.

I guess even polished, eloquent speakers can step on their crank in public...

"Cling to" in the sense of placing those issues higher than say national security or economics when voting (remember those exit polls from the 2004 general election?)

If you feel that none of the possible contenders for your vote will have any effect on those important issues, why base your vote on them? If you're anti-war, somewhat of an economic populist, and anti-abortion and you feel neither candidate will do much on the first two (despite what they say) the 3rd becomes the deciding factor.

EDIT: All this is not to say that his phrasing wasn't clumsy and in-artful, but I don't think there was any malice in his words.

I don't see anything wrong with what he said.  Sometimes the truth hurts, and I'm happy to support someone who will tell the truth in a well-worded speech no matter how "offensive" the media claims it is.  In fact, it's a long time since someone has spoken something like this...perhaps we are all so used to politicians saying the "right" things so as to appeal to everyone and not offend anyone that we don't know what reality sounds like anymore.