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2008-04-19 03:31:59
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...
Maybe some of you have read that, friday the son of the newly appointed commander in chief of the dutch armed forces died because of a roadside bomb.

Peter van Uhm got nominated as commander in chief Thursday, and his son - Dennis van Uhm, who was stationed in Afghanistan for just 2 weeks - got blown to bits the day after because of a roadside bomb.

https://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/04/18/afghanistan.ap/art.uhm.gi.jpg
Newly appointed commander in chief, Gen. Peter van Uhm


His vehicle was the last in the patrol (4 vehicles total) they waited untill he passed by and blew him up.

Everyone in parlement and the defense top is denying the Taliban could've possibly known who he was, and they are avoiding the subject - the prime minister doesn't even seem to care anyway.

They sent him out under his normal name "Dennis van Uhm" so everybody in the camp probably knew that he was the son of Peter van Uhm, a dutch general. Afghani locals frequently visit their camp (Camp Holland) and these might've known that too, and passed it on to the Taliban.


https://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/04/18/afghanistan.ap/art.peter.ap.jpg
Son of the commander in chief, 1st Lt Dennis van Uhm. (23)


Furthermore, the Taliban waited for the last vehicle in the patrol, and pressed the button, only a few hours after his dad got promoted to commander in chief - and it's apparantly all a coincidence that this happened. The parlement and defense top took zero precautions. They should've atleast let the boy take on a new temporal name for his deployment there so he wouldn't become a high profile target easily and quickly.

The parlement even said "it was only known in a small group that he was the son of the commander in chief" well bull-fucking-shit. Everybody in the whole camp would've known he was the son because of the name alone. He was stationed in the camp for only 2 weeks and right a few hours after his dad got commander in chief he got killed.

They failed to take precautions, they're avoiding the questions and generally don't really care about what happened - it's not their son anyway is it. 
Really a good display of the dutch parlement. Bunch of idiots just deliberately let it happen.

And now the Taliban has more propaganda material and more to feel proud about, and we just let it happen.

Fuckers. It's absolutely outrageous.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-04-19 03:33:43)

inane little opines
2008-04-19 04:36:07
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6798|Kyiv, Ukraine
I'll actually buy that it was coincidence.

The question is now, what direction will the motivation of the commander-in-chief of the Dutch military take?  Will he suck it up like a professional, or will he do something else out of mourning or protest?
2008-04-19 04:39:29
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6555|North Tonawanda, NY

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

I'll actually buy that it was coincidence.
Given the events dayarath describes, it really does look like an unfortunate coincidence.

Last edited by SenorToenails (2008-04-19 04:40:03)

2008-04-19 04:40:38
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7046|London, England
How would the Taliban have so much intel, as to know what specific car he was in, in a specific convoy/patrol? I doubt that the local Afghans would know information like that, so it's not like they could have passed it on. It could have been just a coincidence. Maybe you're giving the Taliban too much credit
2008-04-19 04:51:30
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

How would the Taliban have so much intel, as to know what specific car he was in, in a specific convoy/patrol? I doubt that the local Afghans would know information like that, so it's not like they could have passed it on. It could have been just a coincidence. Maybe you're giving the Taliban too much credit
Easily actually. Alot of afghani locals walk around there, it's quite possible that when they saw them leave, they contacted the Taliban. 7km outwards of the base he got blown up. It's quite logic they would consider him a high-profile target - more so because it was incredibly easy to conclude that he would be the son of a person in the high command.

Even so, when you're planting a roadside bomb and plan to detonate it, since when do you wait untill the last car will drive over it? That's idiotic.

I think the commander in chief is traumatized for life, from the best day of his life suddenly to the worst. You can't say "suck it up like a proffesional" this is incredibly tragic. I don't know wether he will resume command.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-04-19 04:52:19)

inane little opines
2008-04-19 04:52:49
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6975|CH/BR - in UK

I can't see them having that much information... Enough to get the timing right to that extent. So I'm with GorillaTicTacs on this one.

-konfusion
2008-04-19 04:54:40
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...

konfusion wrote:

I can't see them having that much information... Enough to get the timing right to that extent. So I'm with GorillaTicTacs on this one.

-konfusion
doesn't take that long to plant a bomb in the road and the Taliban aren't all stupid, gathering intel of a camp that's swarming with locals isn't hard.
inane little opines
2008-04-19 05:59:42
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6715|Éire
The Brits brought Prince Harry home from combat the minute it was leaked in the press. They obviously felt these cave dwellers had the means to find out info on his whereabouts and capitalise on it.
2008-04-19 06:31:44
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|6361

dayarath wrote:

konfusion wrote:

I can't see them having that much information... Enough to get the timing right to that extent. So I'm with GorillaTicTacs on this one.

-konfusion
doesn't take that long to plant a bomb in the road and the Taliban aren't all stupid, gathering intel of a camp that's swarming with locals isn't hard.
Agreed.

Do people think it takes 3 hours to plant a bomb or something?

Also imagine that a local heard the news, and told it to somebody with...say...a radio. He called the Taliban and said there's a high target guy here. A little while later the individual saw him get in the LAST car and drive off. So he calls the guys again and say "Blow the shit out of the last car".

So they do.

End of story


Not so hard to believe seriously.
2008-04-19 07:02:01
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6944|Πάϊ
As if the Taliban have the means or even care to know who he was.
ƒ³
2008-04-19 07:03:21
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7074

Hmm, seems unlikely that they'd see him get in the car as that would happen inside the camp, or even recognize him. Prince Harry is a world-wide recognized figure, this guy is the unknown son of a general. I agree, it does seem odd, especially waiting for the last car. If it was me, I'd have detonated it on a middle car, in the hope of getting more than one.
2008-04-19 07:38:41
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6798|Kyiv, Ukraine

ghettoperson wrote:

Hmm, seems unlikely that they'd see him get in the car as that would happen inside the camp, or even recognize him. Prince Harry is a world-wide recognized figure, this guy is the unknown son of a general. I agree, it does seem odd, especially waiting for the last car. If it was me, I'd have detonated it on a middle car, in the hope of getting more than one.
They probably did, its just sometimes the test kit on the detonator isn't 100% telling the truth, so you need to smack it a few times to get it to go off when the time actually comes.

https://www.armystudyguide.com/images2/a0340.gif

Last edited by GorillaTicTacs (2008-04-19 07:40:56)

2008-04-19 07:44:24
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|6361
Well either way they're probably using that as propaganda even if it wasn't on purpose.

And come to think of it...why would this guy be a high profile target?
2008-04-19 07:49:32
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...

Bradt3hleader wrote:

Well either way they're probably using that as propaganda even if it wasn't on purpose.

And come to think of it...why would this guy be a high profile target?
son of the commander in chief (before; top army general) , that would be quite the demoralisation in the high command chain wouldn't it?

Last edited by dayarath (2008-04-19 07:49:48)

inane little opines
2008-04-19 08:07:41
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|6361

dayarath wrote:

Bradt3hleader wrote:

Well either way they're probably using that as propaganda even if it wasn't on purpose.

And come to think of it...why would this guy be a high profile target?
son of the commander in chief (before; top army general) , that would be quite the demoralisation in the high command chain wouldn't it?
Well that yeah, but I mean I didn't think he was an important target himself, like he couldn't make many huge discisions.
2008-04-19 08:51:39
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6836|'Murka

7km doesn't take very long to travel in three HMMWVs...can't imagine they'd have the time to set up the IED and get set specifically for THAT convoy. Most likely just crappy coincidence.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-19 09:40:51
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina
I'm with Dayarath...  This is WAY too much of a coincidence.  Even if it was by chance, he's right that Parliament is acting disgraceful about it.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-04-19 09:41:55)

2008-04-19 09:47:20
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6980
What is so outrageous about the Taliban targeting him? It's a war ffs. The aim is to kill soldiers of the opposing army...

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-19 09:47:58)

2008-04-19 09:57:40
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

CameronPoe wrote:

What is so outrageous about the Taliban targeting him? It's a war ffs. The aim is to kill soldiers of the opposing army...
The outrageous part is the lack of caution taken in preserving this guy's identity.  You can imagine what would've happened if Prince Harry had been put in this situation.
2008-04-19 10:05:22
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6878|Ontario, Canada
What is so outrageous? Too bad stories like this don't get printed for every soldier that dies, only the *important* ones. gg
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
2008-04-19 10:37:19
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina
So, you don't find it outrageous that no caution was taken in preserving this guy's identity?  You do realize that when a famous person (or someone related to a powerful person) is in harm's way and known to the enemy, this puts not only this person in danger but everyone else around him/her.  Sure, every soldier faces danger from the beginning, but someone like this guy attracts extra effort from the enemy.

Regardless of whether or not this was just a coincidence, it would appear that the Dutch government acted irresponsibly.
2008-04-19 10:40:56
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...

d4rkst4r wrote:

What is so outrageous? Too bad stories like this don't get printed for every soldier that dies, only the *important* ones. gg
and above too. ^

look I usually don't care this much but this guy has effect on the war, mainly because he's the son of the commander in chief meaning, the moment someone like that dies the commander himself can't resume work for quite some time and he may even quit while he's in fact a very good general. We just lost someone in top command / he's unable to do his duty for quite some time.

And the Taliban can use this as a good morale boost. I care about every single soldier there, but that nobody took the initiative to protect the kid by atleast giving him a different name for the mission is beyond me. He was an important guy, because he would influence an important factor of our high command with his death.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-04-19 10:43:32)

inane little opines
2008-04-19 10:51:58
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6836|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

So, you don't find it outrageous that no caution was taken in preserving this guy's identity?  You do realize that when a famous person (or someone related to a powerful person) is in harm's way and known to the enemy, this puts not only this person in danger but everyone else around him/her.  Sure, every soldier faces danger from the beginning, but someone like this guy attracts extra effort from the enemy.

Regardless of whether or not this was just a coincidence, it would appear that the Dutch government acted irresponsibly.
The US has sons of generals (in fact, former CJCS Pace's son was in Iraq while his dad was CJCS) serving over there and nothing special is done to protect their identities. Treating him the same as every other soldier is absolutely the right thing to do.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-19 10:54:53
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6944|Πάϊ
It's a fucking war. People die every day on both sides. And I'm supposed to care about this dickhead in particular because he's the son of a general I've never head of?

And if you want to take this a step further, like a guy did in that other thread about the dead cameraman, why should I care about a professional soldier who willingly put himself at risk by volunteering for this unjust war, or for fucking Taliban fighters who destroy other cultures' monuments for that matter? The former knew the dangers and he shouldn't have been there. The latter are scum whose "culture" (if one can call it that) takes the world back to the dark ages. I have no sympathy, sorry. I save that for the numerous other deadly clashes taking place in the world right now.
ƒ³
2008-04-19 11:08:48
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6424|...

oug wrote:

It's a fucking war. People die every day on both sides. And I'm supposed to care about this dickhead in particular because he's the son of a general I've never head of?

And if you want to take this a step further, like a guy did in that other thread about the dead cameraman, why should I care about a professional soldier who willingly put himself at risk by volunteering for this unjust war, or for fucking Taliban fighters who destroy other cultures' monuments for that matter? The former knew the dangers and he shouldn't have been there. The latter are scum whose "culture" (if one can call it that) takes the world back to the dark ages. I have no sympathy, sorry. I save that for the numerous other deadly clashes taking place in the world right now.

FEOS wrote:

The US has sons of generals (in fact, former CJCS Pace's son was in Iraq while his dad was CJCS) serving over there and nothing special is done to protect their identities. Treating him the same as every other soldier is absolutely the right thing to do.
So if say, Petraeus' son would go to Iraq, there should be no defensive measures along the lines of changing his name because;

he wouldn't endanger his fellow men.
if he would die there would be no effect on the war.

Well think again. He would endanger his men, he would become a high profile target, and the death of such a person would result in the high command getting a blow to the head. And you don't want that to happen in a war situation. It's not as easy as "because he's that and that he should be treated as equal" he should, but not under these circumstances. His presence there influences the situation.

Oug, that you don't know doesn't mean the Taliban doesn't either.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-04-19 11:11:20)

inane little opines

 

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