BF2S Forums OMFG YES! [Champions Leauge]

kptk92 wrote:

Drogba can contract AIDS and die

From you?

Snake wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Snake wrote:

Fucking Chavski. If they can win, then it looks like the billionaire is about to buy his next trophy...taken him long enough.

BBC Five Live did a good job of commentating it and putting me off of revision

No amount of money can buy a trophy. You need competent leadership and good chemistry to win at the top. Real Madrid of two years ago is proof of that.

Complaining about the money is just a poor excuse for not having a team that's good enough. Chelsea doesn't even have the strongest individuals in England. They just have a good team.

1) Compare Chelsea before the Billionaire owner to now. No need to say any more.

No need to say any more? Only if you know nothing about football and you're hoping to get away with a cheap excuse.

Guess what happened around the time that Abramovich bought Chelsea? Mourinho joined. Chelsea was a decent mid-table team before Mourinho joined, and under his guidance they won the league and trophies.

Mourinho was in Porto for two years before he went to Chelsea. Porto was a mid-table team before Mourinho joined, and under his guidance, they won the league, the UEFA Cup, and the Champions League.

If you can't see the link here, you're in denial. Chelsea wasn't even a bad team before Abramovich bought it. It had a few top four finishes in the Premiership.

Snake wrote:

2) When you put THAT much money into a club and buy an entire team + subs for each of those players, all of world class quality and one of the best managers in the world, yes, you are effectively buying trophys. It is the net result....1+1 = 2. Its obvious. With that combination, even a monkey could be in charge of Chelsea and win, although perhaps not the Champions League.
Would Chelsea have won the premiership twice, the FA Cup and now potentially another premiership and a european cup without a Russian Billionaire? I think not. Chelsea would still be a mid-table club, or a 4-7th place club if they played VERY well, certainly not top 3 though.

3) I dont even support Liverpool....but Chavski are the only English team I refuse to support in Europe. I have respect for any club that can build up their team and achievements over time, not just inject what is almost unlimited money and turn a club around in the space of a year. With that amount of money, of course they are a good team...Billionaire would be crazy not to have a good team as a result of it.
With that principle, we could bring Kidderminster Harriers up to compete on European level in a few years. Its pathetic, and they represent everything that is wrong with the game. I long for the day that he gets bored, goes home and leaves Chavski in a Leeds situation.

You're willing to write off the success that Chelsea has had as being solely due to its budget, despite Real Madrid providing evidence that even the best players in the world on a team with no chemistry can't win a thing, and Mourinho having a history of doing exactly what he did at Chelsea before he got there, in clubs with much smaller budgets?

Of course money is going to help. Money can help any club anywhere. Money can't buy you trophies, though.

Last edited by mikkel (2008-05-01 00:00:30)

1927 wrote:

Chelsea were 2nd/3rd best in England before Jose not mid table.

I'll agree to 4th/5th over the five seasons preceeding Abramovich, but really, I'm just saying mid-table to stay out of an argument of statistical semantics.

mikkel wrote:

1927 wrote:

Chelsea were 2nd/3rd best in England before Jose not mid table.

I'll agree to 4th/5th over the five seasons preceeding Abramovich, but really, I'm just saying mid-table to stay out of an argument of statistical semantics.

I'll try and find some stats somewhere on the www to see how they did do previosuly not for arguments sake or even a "told you so" but just out of interest as this arguement was brought up last week and I'm sure they were successful before the money.

What I have said is the money turned them from a good team into a great team but I can remember 20+ years of Chelsea and while they havent been this good for all that time they have been a good team which has consistantly been improving for the last 10/15 years or so.

I also think the overseas investors in our clubs is a good thing and hope one of them open their eyes and see what my club could offer. (Cardiff City)

A capitol city club (however football is Wales number 2 sport, some say) How many capitol cities have 1 club?
No prem football within 2 hours of driving.

We did have a foreign investor but he almost bankrupted us (Sam Hamman).

Chelsea History:  (Wikipedia)

Domestic

League

    * First Division/Premier League[76]: 3

        1954–55, 2004–05, 2005–06

    * Second Division/Championship: 2

        1983–84, 1988–89

Cups

    * FA Cup: 4

        1970, 1997, 2000, 2007

    * League Cup: 4

        1965, 1998, 2005, 2007

    * FA Charity Shield/Community Shield[77]: 3

        1955, 2000, 2005

    * Full Members Cup: 2

        1986, 1990

European

    * UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 2

        1971, 1998

    * European Super Cup: 1

        1998

Ok so that will show how they won the fa cup and league cup and European Cup Winners cup without Abrovamich's money along with European Super cup.

Chelsea are 3rd in the all time table of the Prem League  http://www.premierleague.com/page/Stati … 06,00.html



Since it started in 92 here is where Chelsea have finished.

11th  '92
14th  '93
11th  '94
11th  '95
6th   '96
4th   '97
3rd   '98
5th   '99
6th   '00
6th   '01
4th   '02
2nd  '03
1st   '04
1st   '05
2nd  '06
???   '07

That shows since 96 they have consistantly been gaining European qualification.  Abramovich bought the club in June 2003 for £140m.

I hope these stats and info is found helpful and are not intended to fan any flames of an argument.  I do support a team in Blue, but it's not Chelsea.

kptk92 wrote:

1927 wrote:

I do support a team in Blue, but it's not Chelsea.

Birmingham?

































Ipswich?








































MANCHESTER CITY?!?!!!??

Nope but they are the Number 1 team in my country and do not play in the LOW.  They are the only team to have taken the Fa Cup (paahh) out of England having done so in 1927.  They have triangular flags at their pitch which again nobody else in Wales does, How come?  Well you are only allowed Triangular flags if your team has won the Fa Cup (paaah)<< As in Twin Towns.  On May 17th this year they will be returning to Wembley this time assisted with myself in the hope they win the cup again.

Ladies and gentleman may I introuduce to you



Cardiff City Fc - The Greatest Team in Wales.  (The taller ones)

kptk92 wrote:

1927 wrote:

Nope but they are the Number 1 team in my country and do not play in the LOW.  They are the only team to have taken the Fa Cup (paahh) out of England having done so in 1927.  They have triangular flags at their pitch which again nobody else in Wales does, How come?  Well you are only allowed Triangular flags if your team has won the Fa Cup (paaah)<< As in Twin Towns.  On May 17th this year they will be returning to Wembley this time assisted with myself in the hope they win the cup again.

Ladies and gentleman may I introuduce to you

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/239 … 96.jpg?v=0

Cardiff City Fc - The Greatest Team in Wales.  (The taller ones)

Ooooooh so it wasn't Birmingham or Ipswich or Man City?

lul

I WANT CARDIFF TO WIN THE FA CUP

Last edited by henno13 (2008-05-01 08:24:33)

I live with a Man United fan and a Chelsea fan...this final should be interesting!

...if only there was a way both teams could lose!

Last edited by Braddock (2008-05-01 08:34:16)

Oh please Snake, you are SO FULL SHIT, if you don't know enough about the game, and just judge a club from the outside without any thought, just please don't contribute anything.

I promised myself I wouldn't argue online with people like you, but what you say (I've heard it a million times from other people in my life too), irritates me so much, I like you, but your opinion, of what has been my passion since I was 6 years old, is just completely unfair.

An let me also refer you to these few posts, where 1927, a guy who has a similar passion, agrees with me, and shows he has knowledge about the game.


http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p2053583

I would like you to read my point about all the backroom staff and coaches that have been here a long time, and are instrumental in our success, something which you completely ignore, because you want to, because you can't be bothered to find out the real facts about Chelsea, before making stupid accusations.

1) Compare Chelsea before the Billionaire owner to now. No need to say any more.

Refer to 1927's post above, Pre-Abramovic we had 3 FA cups, 2 league cups, and various success in Europe... Oh and what's that I see? 1955 we were champions of England, meaning we were the BEST TEAM in England, did we "buy" it then? hell no, you just refuse to look back as far as that, because you don't consider the history of football important, another typical feature of someone who knows shit all about the game and Chelsea FC.

Fa cups, 1970, 1997, 2000...a knock out competition where every team in England has a chance to win it, and try their best to do so, yet we came out on top of all of them 3 times? oh no wait, we must have bought those trophies too.

Notice the two 2nd division titles too, see how we have always been a successful club, but because we're not winning the second division anymore, and we're instead taking Man utd's premiership success away from them a bit, you start complaining, that makes you fucking pathetic my friend, not chelsea.

2) When you put THAT much money into a club and buy an entire team + subs for each of those players, all of world class quality and one of the best managers in the world, yes, you are effectively buying trophies. It is the net result....1+1 = 2. Its obvious.

Pre-Abramovic players, that are still with us or recently left.

John Terry
Frank Lampard
Wayne Bridge
Joe Cole
Carlo Cudicini
William Gallas
Eidur Gujonssen


4 of those players, Terry, Lampard, Galls, and Joey Cole have been so instrumental in our success, I guarantee we would have won NOTHING, without those players, so that point goes out the window. Oh and Claudio Ranieri had all the money he needed for one season, yet he won nothing, then Mourinho comes along and wins the Premiership and league cup in his first season...so it's not just money is it? no, it requires a good manager and good team chemistry too.

Would Chelsea have won the premiership twice, the FA Cup and now potentially another premiership and a european cup without a Russian Billionaire? I think not. Chelsea would still be a mid-table club, or a 4-7th place club if they played VERY well, certainly not top 3 though.

LOL, this is the most idiotic point of them all.

Let me ask you, would Manchester United have had all their success over the years without millionaire shareholders, who have backed them solidly for decades gone by???? NO NO NO, you needed all the money you can get, to get where you are, so don't throw that shit argument at me, you bought your players, stadium, staff, coaches, manager...you bought them all with money that no other club in England has ever had, without that solid financial backing, United would be a mere shadow of what they are now, that goes for all successful clubs in the top tier of any league in any country. Chelsea have always struggled financially, in fact the season before Abramovic came, we were very close to filing for administration, can you imagine that? and yes we had a lucky break, after over 100 years of shit financial backing, we got lucky...yet you mock this club, you should be happy for us, and you should realise that United have always had money, and have always been lucky to have that, so you've never had to struggle as hard as a club like Chelsea did.  Don't like it? go fuck yourself then, because you're just being a spoiled brat.

The big difference is, everyone including the media, all talk about Abramovic and the way he suddenly came, no one talks about the amazing financial backing United has had for years, because everyone's used to it. You, building your team up over years because you've always had money? Or us building up a team as strong as yours in 2 years, because we've never had money, but suddenly got it. What's the difference, it's the same thing in principle. You could spend all the money you want in the summer, but you don't need to, because you almost have the best team you can get. We didn't have the best team we could get, so we spent a lot in the summer of 04 and 05, see how it works?

3) I dont even support Liverpool....but Chavski are the only English team I refuse to support in Europe. I have respect for any club that can build up their team and achievements over time

Then respect Chelsea and our history. We've had amazing achievements, not as great as United, but not bad for a club with fuck all money, so show some fucking respect.

With that principle, we could bring Kidderminster Harriers up to compete on European level in a few years.

Another badly thought out point, Kidderminster could pay the highest wages in the world, but they wouldn't attract the quality players that Chelsea can attract, because:

1) They have a crappy stadium - Chelsea invested everything they had to make Stamford bridge the great ground it is today, players want to play in the biggest and best stadiums, not on a crappy ground, where very few fans can watch them.

2) They don't have good players (relative to the premiership)  -  Chelsea had some excellent player before Abramovic came

-Terry
-Lampard
-Gudjonssen
-Hasselbaink
-Joe Cole
-William Gallas
-Wayne Bridge

and there was a great foundation to build upon, which gave players belief that if they joined Chelsea, success wouldn't be far away...Great players wouldn't join Kidderminster, because there are no great players for them to play with.

4) History - Kiddermister have hardly any, they HAVE NEVER won a major trophy, Chelsea had many Pre-Abramovic, which again attracts players to a club that has had a decent amount of success with little money, players would be thinking "imagine what they can do with sound financial backing"

5) Support - Chelsea have always had mass support, one of the best followings in England, we had that well before Abromovic was here, and we'll have long after he has gone. A club can never be successful at the top level if they don't have a good following to begin with. Kidderminster don't have that.

So your point about Kidderminster, and most other lower division teams for that matter, IS FUCKING WRONG.

Chelsea have a great history, and are a great club, we've worked so hard over the past decades, and we put ourself in a position where a billionaire wanted to buy our club over any other, that's impressive if you ask me, so we deserve everything we get, weather you like it or not.

Its pathetic, and they represent everything that is wrong with the game.

Your Club has had sound financial backing for a very long time now, it's something you've never had to worry about in the past few decades, and you've pretty much had a monopoly of the league since 1990. Now we have what you have always had, now we're taking away some of your success, and your getting jealous about it, you're fucking pathetic, why don't you do what the true united fans do, stop being jealous and just chant for your team that little bit louder, stop worrying about what Chelsea are doing, stop complaining, enjoy the challenge for God's sake and stop moaning.

If we were winning the the FA vase trophy every year, for 20 years in a row, and no other team had a chance, you wouldn't care then would you?  No, because we're not taking any of your success away from you.

I long for the day that he gets bored, goes home and leaves Chavski in a Leeds situation.

I long for the day you show some damn respect for a club that deserves it, and stop acting like a spoiled baby.

Why do you support united by the way? I'm betting it's because you turned on the TV one day and saw them dominating the league, or because "your family supports them" or some shit like that. I support Chelsea because I was born and raised in Chelsea, it's in my blood, and when people like you chat crap about one of the great things in my life, it becomes more than "just some banter".

One final point, seeing as you like talking about how we purchased success.

As stated before, the season before Abramovic came, we were the worst club in terms of financial stability in the premiership, we finished 4th that season and qualified for the Champions league. Without champions league status, Abramovic WOULD NOT have bought Chelsea, I guarantee you that.

Since getting promoted in 1989, it was a decade and a half of hard work and passion that scraped us that 4th place, which set us up for the purchase from Abramovic, a decade and a  half of hard work, not just a some billionaire who turned up and randomly decided to buy us.

I hope you remember that next time.

This isn't an attack on you Snake, but a general point to all united fans, or any fans for that matter, who carry a similar view

/rant

Last edited by justice (2008-05-01 13:32:13)

That Justice imo is one of the best posts I have ever read.  Not becuase I recieved praise (thank you) but it comes from the heart and the head whilst not even dipping into any childish flame (other than very first few lines) at any time backed up with facts that are written in the football history books.  I also love football as by now I'm sure most people know.

The other reason Chelsea will sucseed is youth, like all teams they invest in it, again Man Utd started this off to some respect and showed us the way.  I'm not sure if Chelsea own another team, a feeder club but Man Utd do in Royal Antwerp.  Sponsorship is being forgotten here, Man Utd used to own the biggest ever deal but Chelsea do now (i think) in the huge deal done between the club and Samsung.  Peter Kenyon would of had a huge part to play in this and of course we may remember he went from Man Utd to Chelsea.

As Justice has pointed out Chelsea's backroom staff havent changed regardless of who is at the very very top of the club, ok they have brought a handful of coaches and scouts in, but this is one of the reasons to Man Utd's success.  A few of the ex Man Utd youth team coaches are now involved with Wales u21.  We are top of our qualifying group with a game to go, we havent bought anyone its come from working with the same group of players for a few years.  That is what Chelsea have done, it takes time.  You cant turn the good players into great players overnight.  You need the best facilities, best personel and Chelsea have invested there aswell.

It would be interesting to see who spent what last summer, Liverpool wouldn't of been too far away from what Chelsea spent I reckon.  Chelsea have spent big but they have also spent on English, in a lot of cases it hasn't worked out but these players have now moved on having gained experience from working with some of the best coaches, English fans regardless of team should be happy about that.

As a Welsh supporting Cardiff fan I hope, the Glazers never leave Man Utd, the Americans never leave Liverpool, Villa and Derby, the Irish never leave Sunderland and Roman never leaves Chelsea in a mess.   Peoples jobs are on the line when this happens, not just the footballers but the people who drive to work in the ford focuses or on the train, the people who really make the clubs tick.  The people who 99% of the fans never get to meet never mind know their names.  When my club has been in trouble these boys and girls don't get paid for 3 months.  If a player dosen't get paid the FA step in and pay them, but not for backroom staff.  We had a Lebanese owner and he was a right bandit almost took us under but even our rivals supported us through this, as we have for them in the past as once a club goes down a pan they rarely come back.  Aldershot have taken about 20 years to get back to where they are now.  This is something i would never wish on another club and there are clubs I hate and bring my kids up to hate aswell.

I can understand the views of others towards Chelsea in regards to saying "You bought it" but very few of those fans can say that without a foreign owner being at the top of their club.  Its my opinion that Chelsea have gone from good to great.  They have a history of success in a city which must already have 10 clubs at least.  I hope more foreigners come in and keep chucking there money in and buying us the best players in the world to watch at 10.30pm on a Saturday night, its one of the things that makes it the best league in the world.

The one thing that never changes at a club are the fans, the true fans that is.  Once you get taken to your 1st game its in your blood.  Everything else can change from the very top right down to having the club ripped from under you, -10 points and dropping out the league, the lifeline of this sport will still turn up on a shitty cold night with 6 other men and his dog and shout his team on.  That wasn't too long ago for me and if it wasn't for money we wouldn't of made the huge steps that we have (very small in most peoples eyes). The biggest step we made and still doing is that if Hamman stopped bunging the money (or should that be lending it) we would survive at this level with these facilities, we have done, the very people he brought in made sure of that and I bet you Chelsea, Man Utd's, Liverpool, Arsenal in fact all clubs have done the same thing.  If the money was to stop tomorrow and the owner rides off into the sunset on a donkey then a plan b can kick in where there are cutbacks but not a cease of existance.

Theres a saying which goes along the lines of "Buy a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime", thats why when these owners come they invest in youth, hotels, leisure complex's.  The only way you can survive is by having a stadium which generates money 5 days out of 7.  1 day a week isn't enough to be a success, even in the Coca Cola Championship.  Even then these money men never get their money back.  Only Man Utd used to make a profit and Arsenal break even but that was almost 10 years ago now, those stats have probably changed.

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