I am positive that there is a swimsuit company that caters specifically to muslim women, there was even a newsweek article about it a few months ago.
idiot parents.
idiot parents.
Why don't they move back to wherever the fuck they came from.
lowing is currently busy making love to the German countryside, he will prolly never ever leave Germany after this court decisionRoosterCantrell wrote:
Where the hell is Lowing at? he'd love this.
But anyway... that's a bit tricky there I guess, but overall I say..well done Germany.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
You know the school is being nice. They could have kicked her out of school.Lotta_Drool wrote:
What if they were Huderite or Amish? Religion doesn't matter in this at all. Someone should not be force to be uncomfortable for no reason what so ever. Let her run in circles on a track or ride a stationary bike.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I saw that on Drudge or FOX NEWS (HAHA). I think this is absurd. If her parents don't want her to go swimming then they need to get her into a Private school that does not have swimming in its curriculum. The fact that the school has tried to accommodate here with "leggings" illustrates that they did try to compromise. Odd too, for isn't the Muslim religion all about compromise, rationality & flexibility? Oh wait, that was my wife I was thinking about....Lotta_Drool wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354571,00.html
This reminds me of the Muslim woman who wouldn't take off her head curtain for a pic at the Driver's license Office. She sued, and lost. I dunno if she ended up with a drivers' license. Kinda odd situation for I thought the hardliner muslims don't let women drive.
Go Germany! Why should we care what the parents think? They're closed-minded conservatives.
If I ran the school, I would've honored the parents' request but officially filed the reason as "She has a mental disability that prevents her from swimming. It's called Islam."
True that, I am no friend of Islam but I am of Human rights.Turquoise wrote:
If I ran the school, I would've honored the parents' request but officially filed the reason as "She has a mental disability that prevents her from swimming. It's called Islam."
I find it funny how much I have been called racist/islamophobe yet nobody else can seem to take Islam out of this and apply nonbias reasoning to the situation, either that or everyone in this forum seems to think that a schools swim class has some all mighty power over human freedom and the entire world must conform to it.
All I hear is " fuck you Muslims you should go back to where you came from ", well where the fuck did the article say they came from somewhere else or that they aren't German citizens? I seriously think this forum is becoming filled with more illogical retards by the moment.
When dealing with things like this, you have 2 choices...
1) Appease them, but do it in a legal but mocking manner.
2) Tell them to fuck off, but do it consistently to all whiny groups.
I know where you're coming from, Lotta, but I tire of these ridiculous customs that people use religion to defend. If someone wants to wear a sheet over themselves at all times, then that's a fucking mental problem, not faith.
We should treat people with weird practices for what they really are -- mentally ill. Pure logic does not permit people to act in such ways, and the freedom of religion is often nothing more than just a scapegoat for idiocy.
1) Appease them, but do it in a legal but mocking manner.
2) Tell them to fuck off, but do it consistently to all whiny groups.
I know where you're coming from, Lotta, but I tire of these ridiculous customs that people use religion to defend. If someone wants to wear a sheet over themselves at all times, then that's a fucking mental problem, not faith.
We should treat people with weird practices for what they really are -- mentally ill. Pure logic does not permit people to act in such ways, and the freedom of religion is often nothing more than just a scapegoat for idiocy.
Good job Germany. Don't change your ways because of immigrants, they should change THEIR ways if they want to live there, or go back to where they came from.
GG.
GG.
http://www.ahiida.com/index.php?a=subcats&cat=20
She just wants to use her religion to skip swimming. Don't blame Germany.
She just wants to use her religion to skip swimming. Don't blame Germany.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-05-08 16:51:02)
I practically live in Amish country or w/e its called. I agree. Take the clothes off now...especially since most of them are hot, ya know, like not sitting around all day.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
You know this "Amish" religion. They're against technology right? Doesn't that mean that they should swim naked!
Last edited by Commie Killer (2008-05-08 16:56:14)
LOL... I love it... those look even more ridiculous than the old '30s swimsuits we used to have.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
http://www.ahiida.com/index.php?a=subcats&cat=20
She just wants to use her religion to skip swimming. Don't blame Germany.
Looking at the thread title again:
Freedom of religion = Giving people a right to practice their own religion.
Freedom of religion =/= Changing things to suit other culture's needs.
Freedom of religion = Giving people a right to practice their own religion.
Freedom of religion =/= Changing things to suit other culture's needs.
This is not just a case of Germany denying freedom of religion. This is Germany being overly socialistic. If the parents don't want her to go, she shouldn't have to.
Sure, she doesn't have to. Of course, she might fail the class as a result.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
This is not just a case of Germany denying freedom of religion. This is Germany being overly socialistic. If the parents don't want her to go, she shouldn't have to.
It's not about socialism -- it's about common sense.
If some kid refuses to not take the class because they don't want to wear a swimsuit, it's a simple matter of, "Ok, you can fail then." But oh... if religion is involved, then it becomes some huge deal. I think that's bullshit. Either you deal with the class, or you fail. No stupid religious excuses should be allowed.
"Overly socialistic?"Deadmonkiefart wrote:
This is not just a case of Germany denying freedom of religion. This is Germany being overly socialistic. If the parents don't want her to go, she shouldn't have to.
Do you even now what socialism is? (Apart from being an "evil commie terrorists")
Freshman year we took swimming, and some fat chick didn't want to get into a swimsuit. That's fine. She also failed the class.
This is a case of separation of church and state. Your religion should not interfere with your schoolwork. If I walked into English and said that I refused to read The Catcher in the Rye because my religion says I can't, I'd be sent to the principal's office, and get an F on the assignment.
Your government's rules are more important than your religions. Especially if it's one that has such little respect for women anyway.
This is a case of separation of church and state. Your religion should not interfere with your schoolwork. If I walked into English and said that I refused to read The Catcher in the Rye because my religion says I can't, I'd be sent to the principal's office, and get an F on the assignment.
Your government's rules are more important than your religions. Especially if it's one that has such little respect for women anyway.
Problem noted....and solved.
So wait, what was their excuse again?
I just had a brilliant idea. Since these people are most likely going to bank so much money off of providing these kind of outfits for muslims, why don't I design Lingirie for Muslim women that covers everything like their curtain things. That way they won't violate the rules, get to wear lingirie, and I get filthy rich by totally ripping off an entire religion.Protecus wrote:
https://splas004.secure.omnis.com/store … _femme.jpg
Problem noted....and solved.
So wait, what was their excuse again?
This idea is patented by Major.League.Infidel industries.
Yes, I do know what socialism is. Well, serves me right for jumping to conclusions and not reading the whole thing. I thought I read that Germany was suing the parents or something.PBAsydney wrote:
"Overly socialistic?"Deadmonkiefart wrote:
This is not just a case of Germany denying freedom of religion. This is Germany being overly socialistic. If the parents don't want her to go, she shouldn't have to.
Do you even now what socialism is? (Apart from being an "evil commie terrorists")
I can still see their face, feet and hands. I am outraged!
THE SKIN BETWEEN YOUR EYES IS VISIBLE.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I can still see their face, feet and hands. I am outraged!
The sentance is death by stoning.
If I understand the situation correctly, I would agree with Lotta_Drool. That the student is being forced to participate in an activity that goes against her religious beliefs without having an alternative seems unfair. The situation does not affect other students, but only the Muslim student, with whom I disagree about the mandatory nature of the activity. If she does not wish to attend, then it should not be compulsory, especially when alternative activities are available.
Be careful where that logic takes you.Drakef wrote:
If I understand the situation correctly, I would agree with Lotta_Drool. That the student is being forced to participate in an activity that goes against her religious beliefs without having an alternative seems unfair. The situation does not affect other students, but only the Muslim student, with whom I disagree about the mandatory nature of the activity. If she does not wish to attend, then it should not be compulsory, especially when alternative activities are available.
The fact that so much of the Islamic World has started to reject the silly covering up of women is proof that not wearing a sheet doesn't really conflict with her religion. If this family wants to take the more orthodox (and ass-backwards) way of doing things, they should be ready to face several obstacles in society because of it. No one forces you to be uptight and old fashioned. These people choose to be that way, and we shouldn't have to change to suit their silly customs.
Anyway, kudos to Germany for having balls.
lol. germany really can do nothing right, can we ?Lotta_Drool wrote:
This is not getting pork removed from the school lunch program trying to force the school to segregate the boys and girls from swimming together, this was simply declining to participate in a pointless low value school activity that clearly would be against the belief system of the family and could very well make a little girl very self conscious and uncomfortable. All the school had to do is say, 'OK, she can ride the stationary bike or report to a nonswimming PE class instead.".d4rkst4r wrote:
How is Germany wrong here? You fail Lotta_Drool. All these Muslim people complain about everything, they should either shut up, or leave, it's not that hard of a decision. Laws in the West don't have to cater to the damn Koran.
What is the huge deal here. Is this school ran by Swim Nazis or something?
When we allow muslims students to pray on school grounds, we get heat from lowing, FEOS, and others for being "appeasers".
When we chose to enforce our laws, we get heat from Lotta, for "denying freedom of religion"
make up your minds, will ya ? What are we, appeasers or nazis ?
the parents where offered a compromise so that the girl could attend swim class, they turned it down. Numerous people here have posted pictures of non-offending swimwear for muslims.
The huge deal here is, Lotta, that school attendance is mandatory through law here in germany. If we start making exceptions for one religion, we'd set a dangerous precedent for others. Allowing one student to remove himself/herself from class simply because of the religion would be unfair towards the rest of the class, who happen not to be muslims.
And since when do individual believe systems override national law ?
I realize there is a fine line between freedom of religion and secular law. We have had that same discussion over the school prayer thing in germany a couple of weeks ago. The reality is simply that at the time when the relevant laws were created ( freedom of religion, separation of church and state ) we did not have a sufficiently large muslim population for these issues to come up.
The standards are there, but we are still learning how to apply those standards with regard to different religions, some of which weren't even present in germany at the time when the laws were introduced.
It's a slow, difficult process, which much learning to do on both sides.
what I find ironic is that this story would appear on fox news. I'd bet a lot of money that if this had not involved a muslim girl, fox wouldn't have bothered reporting any of it. To me , it seems they are actively looking for these types of stories, for whatever reason.