EE (hats
i never said i disagreed with the end result. its still illegal. deal with it. and they did. they broke the law, so they got punished. it doesn't matter if you're fighting for a good cause or not. you follow the law or you get punished. thats the way it works. there's no special treatment. you're looking at it with a jaded eye. hindsight is 20/20, but i 100% guarantee you'd feel the opposite if you were living in 1960s America.Home wrote:
Lol. So because the government decided something was illegal, that makes it wrong?? You are saying that you think what MLK Jr. did was wrong??? I don't give a shit if it's illegal, if that's the risk to better the moral and legal standards of my country then I'll do it. Technically, the American Revolution was illegal. The Boston Tea Party was illegal. MLK Jr's civil disobedience (no kidding it's illegal, that why its called civil disobedience) was illegal, although apparently you believe that he and the other men, women, and children he marched with deserved the fire hose.Ender2309 wrote:
because its illegal to block fucking traffic.Home wrote:
While I agree that Al Sharpton is a douche, I don't really see what was wrong with what he was doing in this instance. It was peaceful civil disobedience, similar to what MLK Jr. did, and it is bullshit that those three cops were acquitted completely.
civil disobedience is illegal. it gets the fuck out of the road, or it gets the hose again. just like MLK and those guys.
you don't get to run around doing whatever you want. thats not what happens in a free country. when what you want to do infringes on my right to drive to work and not worry about running over some crazy black dude, you gtfo of the road or you go to jail.
edit: (mostly directed at KMarion) I understand what is illegal about it, I just don't understand why people are opposed to it. It is pretty mindless to let what is legal and illegal guide your moral judgement.
if things change, they change and we apologize. but as it stands, the law is there, and its there for a reason. when you don't follow it, you get punished. the law doesn't take sides with what may or may not be morally correct.
certainly, i'm glad that MLK succeeded. i'm also glad that our law enforcement did their jobs.
The matter that lies in question is how far will you go to overcome the law and rewrite history? Like Ender said the law is the law, but a law is only as good as the people who enforce it.Ender2309 wrote:
i never said i disagreed with the end result. its still illegal. deal with it. and they did. they broke the law, so they got punished. it doesn't matter if you're fighting for a good cause or not. you follow the law or you get punished. thats the way it works. there's no special treatment. you're looking at it with a jaded eye. hindsight is 20/20, but i 100% guarantee you'd feel the opposite if you were living in 1960s America.Home wrote:
Lol. So because the government decided something was illegal, that makes it wrong?? You are saying that you think what MLK Jr. did was wrong??? I don't give a shit if it's illegal, if that's the risk to better the moral and legal standards of my country then I'll do it. Technically, the American Revolution was illegal. The Boston Tea Party was illegal. MLK Jr's civil disobedience (no kidding it's illegal, that why its called civil disobedience) was illegal, although apparently you believe that he and the other men, women, and children he marched with deserved the fire hose.Ender2309 wrote:
because its illegal to block fucking traffic.
civil disobedience is illegal. it gets the fuck out of the road, or it gets the hose again. just like MLK and those guys.
you don't get to run around doing whatever you want. thats not what happens in a free country. when what you want to do infringes on my right to drive to work and not worry about running over some crazy black dude, you gtfo of the road or you go to jail.
edit: (mostly directed at KMarion) I understand what is illegal about it, I just don't understand why people are opposed to it. It is pretty mindless to let what is legal and illegal guide your moral judgement.
if things change, they change and we apologize. but as it stands, the law is there, and its there for a reason. when you don't follow it, you get punished. the law doesn't take sides with what may or may not be morally correct.
certainly, i'm glad that MLK succeeded. i'm also glad that our law enforcement did their jobs.
Last edited by dan673 (2008-05-07 22:01:59)
protest on the side of the road please, blocking traffic only pisses people off
Tragic injustice? Oh please. Al Sharpton's only doing this for himself. He's the most racist, bigoted man that I've ever seen. Sean Bell was heard saying "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" outside of a shady strip club that was already being investigated for prostitution. The cops told him to put his hands above his head and he didn't, accelerated and hit an unmarked police mini-van. A car is considered a DEADLY WEAPON. Which means FORCE IS TO BE USED.Home wrote:
You're right. They demonstrated in an irresponsible way. BUT I still think it is ignorant for everyone to simply read "Al Sharpton" and "arrested" and say "FUCK YEAH" and "What a fucking douche" considering the tragic injustice that he was protesting.Kmarion wrote:
You can't crap on everyone else's rights to make your point. What if EMT was trying to get across the bridge? Think about it.
The only reason, and ONLY reason Al Sharpton protests is to fill his own agenda.
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-05-08 03:17:18)
Apples and oranges. That is what you are comparing. Enslaving an entire race of people is unjust and disgusting, especially when your own people are the ones who are capturing and selling you, but that is a different lesson. That was betwen the slaves and those who enslaved them. What Sharpton did was prevent people from getting to work, school, whatever on time or at all in some cases. Those people have nothing to do with any of this situation but are forced to feel the wrath of his bullshit shenannigans. There is shit that happens every day that I am passsionate about, but you don't see me having a temper tantrum on a fucking bridge in NY, NY pissing off everyone else. If I felt that I was so angry that the only way I could deem the score as even, was to do something that warranted me getting arrested. Then I would do it at my own risk away from those who I cared about. Sharpton is a piece of shit and should not involve other people in his douche ass schemes. Real leaders stand alone and accept responsibility without public sympothy. Oh, and don't forget that Mr. Sharpton gets paid very very well so I have a hard time buying that he is only in it for the cause.Home wrote:
C'mon, are you serious? I didn't expect this from you. Its not like this country hasn't made mistakes before. It was once illegal for the slaves in the south to escape their plantations, and yes, I do advocate that and see it as a good thing, so if that makes me a "special person" than so be it.Kmarion wrote:
It takes a special kinda person to make a case for morality while advocating criminal activity.
.
Malloy must go
Hmm. New York. Brooklyn area. Even if there were hundreds of "protestors", I'm still surprised angry NYC'ers didn't just run them over
"hey buddy get tha fuck outta my way"
"hey buddy get tha fuck outta my way"
You know whats funny? If someone called Sharpton out that he was only protesting the white Officer and not the other two, They would be called racists! But thats the truth., and noone should be able to censor it, With accusations of racial bias and it offends a Minority. Kinda reminds me of a group of people i Know who get offended at every little thing.
Americans?David.P wrote:
Kinda reminds me of a group of people i Know who get offended at every little thing.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
1. "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" does not mean he is going to kill someone. I hear "threats" like that nearly every day. I've said crap like that myself, and I'm sure you have too.Poseidon wrote:
Sean Bell was heard saying "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" outside of a shady strip club that was already being investigated for prostitution. The cops told him to put his hands above his head and he didn't, accelerated and hit an unmarked police mini-van. A car is considered a DEADLY WEAPON. Which means FORCE IS TO BE USED.Home wrote:
You're right. They demonstrated in an irresponsible way. BUT I still think it is ignorant for everyone to simply read "Al Sharpton" and "arrested" and say "FUCK YEAH" and "What a fucking douche" considering the tragic injustice that he was protesting.Kmarion wrote:
You can't crap on everyone else's rights to make your point. What if EMT was trying to get across the bridge? Think about it.
2. The plainclothes cops waited until Bell got into his car and then pointed a gun at him and ordered him to put his hands on his head. Think about that from Bell's point of view. If I was in a scummy neighborhood, some normal looking guy pointing his gun at me and telling me to put my hands on my head would translate to "car jacking" not "Oh, he must be an undercover detective. I should comply." So of course he accelerated, he could have been trying to escape OR he just got the shit scared out of him and he stepped on the gas and hit the unmarked van. How was he supposed to know that was a police van?
I'm not saying that the cops should have got a life sentence or something. But it is bs that the cops were completely acquitted.
I think we can agree that the case surrounding Bell's death is pretty fucked up, but I don't see what the point of blocking traffic is.
That image has HATE WHITEY coming out of its ears.Poseidon wrote:
Is it just me, or does Sharpton look a bit like James Brown these days? He's got the wacky hair and stoned out of his gourd expression.
hey home, the real world called. it asked me to tell you that threats don't get ignored here. this isn't high school. if somebody were to threaten your life, somebody you had never met before, would you take it as a joke? i didn't think so. why should these officers?Home wrote:
1. "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" does not mean he is going to kill someone. I hear "threats" like that nearly every day. I've said crap like that myself, and I'm sure you have too.Poseidon wrote:
Sean Bell was heard saying "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" outside of a shady strip club that was already being investigated for prostitution. The cops told him to put his hands above his head and he didn't, accelerated and hit an unmarked police mini-van. A car is considered a DEADLY WEAPON. Which means FORCE IS TO BE USED.Home wrote:
You're right. They demonstrated in an irresponsible way. BUT I still think it is ignorant for everyone to simply read "Al Sharpton" and "arrested" and say "FUCK YEAH" and "What a fucking douche" considering the tragic injustice that he was protesting.
2. The plainclothes cops waited until Bell got into his car and then pointed a gun at him and ordered him to put his hands on his head. Think about that from Bell's point of view. If I was in a scummy neighborhood, some normal looking guy pointing his gun at me and telling me to put my hands on my head would translate to "car jacking" not "Oh, he must be an undercover detective. I should comply." So of course he accelerated, he could have been trying to escape OR he just got the shit scared out of him and he stepped on the gas and hit the unmarked van. How was he supposed to know that was a police van?
I'm not saying that the cops should have got a life sentence or something. But it is bs that the cops were completely acquitted.
under any other circumstances i would agree that something was going wrong, but the officers were acting like police. they heard a threat, they reacted, they saw a guy who just threatened a life ram a police car, unmarked or not. they reacted.
in real life you can't assume that the guy doesn't know you're police. in real life, ramming a car is ramming a car, regardless of the circumstances. they can't just think, well, maybe the guy has the best of intentions and plans to go pick some fucking flowers. no, he made a death threat and then he ran. thats guilty behavior buddy.
besides, I'd be very surprised if plainclothes police officers didn't do or say something to identify themselves as police officers.
Legally they have to identify themselves as cops before they try to make any arrests. I have a hard time believing that they did not.Ender2309 wrote:
hey home, the real world called. it asked me to tell you that threats don't get ignored here. this isn't high school. if somebody were to threaten your life, somebody you had never met before, would you take it as a joke? i didn't think so. why should these officers?Home wrote:
1. "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" does not mean he is going to kill someone. I hear "threats" like that nearly every day. I've said crap like that myself, and I'm sure you have too.Poseidon wrote:
Sean Bell was heard saying "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" outside of a shady strip club that was already being investigated for prostitution. The cops told him to put his hands above his head and he didn't, accelerated and hit an unmarked police mini-van. A car is considered a DEADLY WEAPON. Which means FORCE IS TO BE USED.
2. The plainclothes cops waited until Bell got into his car and then pointed a gun at him and ordered him to put his hands on his head. Think about that from Bell's point of view. If I was in a scummy neighborhood, some normal looking guy pointing his gun at me and telling me to put my hands on my head would translate to "car jacking" not "Oh, he must be an undercover detective. I should comply." So of course he accelerated, he could have been trying to escape OR he just got the shit scared out of him and he stepped on the gas and hit the unmarked van. How was he supposed to know that was a police van?
I'm not saying that the cops should have got a life sentence or something. But it is bs that the cops were completely acquitted.
under any other circumstances i would agree that something was going wrong, but the officers were acting like police. they heard a threat, they reacted, they saw a guy who just threatened a life ram a police car, unmarked or not. they reacted.
in real life you can't assume that the guy doesn't know you're police. in real life, ramming a car is ramming a car, regardless of the circumstances. they can't just think, well, maybe the guy has the best of intentions and plans to go pick some fucking flowers. no, he made a death threat and then he ran. thats guilty behavior buddy.
besides, I'd be very surprised if plainclothes police officers didn't do or say something to identify themselves as police officers.
Thanks for clarifying, but I already understood that they reacted. It's how they reacted that is the problem. I mean really, what did they expect? You come out of cover or off the sidewalk or something in the inner city pointing a gun at someone, in plain clothes, and you think they are just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a cop and comply? That's just common sense, and if you can't even figure that out, you shouldn't be a cop.Ender2309 wrote:
hey home, the real world called. it asked me to tell you that threats don't get ignored here. this isn't high school. if somebody were to threaten your life, somebody you had never met before, would you take it as a joke? i didn't think so. why should these officers?Home wrote:
1. "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" does not mean he is going to kill someone. I hear "threats" like that nearly every day. I've said crap like that myself, and I'm sure you have too.Poseidon wrote:
Sean Bell was heard saying "yo, go get my gun and kill that dumb white bitch" outside of a shady strip club that was already being investigated for prostitution. The cops told him to put his hands above his head and he didn't, accelerated and hit an unmarked police mini-van. A car is considered a DEADLY WEAPON. Which means FORCE IS TO BE USED.
2. The plainclothes cops waited until Bell got into his car and then pointed a gun at him and ordered him to put his hands on his head. Think about that from Bell's point of view. If I was in a scummy neighborhood, some normal looking guy pointing his gun at me and telling me to put my hands on my head would translate to "car jacking" not "Oh, he must be an undercover detective. I should comply." So of course he accelerated, he could have been trying to escape OR he just got the shit scared out of him and he stepped on the gas and hit the unmarked van. How was he supposed to know that was a police van?
I'm not saying that the cops should have got a life sentence or something. But it is bs that the cops were completely acquitted.
under any other circumstances i would agree that something was going wrong, but the officers were acting like police. they heard a threat, they reacted, they saw a guy who just threatened a life ram a police car, unmarked or not. they reacted.
in real life you can't assume that the guy doesn't know you're police. in real life, ramming a car is ramming a car, regardless of the circumstances. they can't just think, well, maybe the guy has the best of intentions and plans to go pick some fucking flowers. no, he made a death threat and then he ran. thats guilty behavior buddy.
besides, I'd be very surprised if plainclothes police officers didn't do or say something to identify themselves as police officers.
Why do you have a hard time believing that? Cops break the law every day. Even if they did identify themselves, it was a still a stupid way to approach the situation. Whether you say you're a cop or not, if I look up and see a normal-looking guy pointing a gun at me I would panic.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Legally they have to identify themselves as cops before they try to make any arrests. I have a hard time believing that they did not.
really? cops break the law everyday? so because you're disenfranchised with society you feel that the death was murder? because you feel like cops break the law a lot they automatically did so here? no. thats pointless, baseless assumption.
i would panic if i saw anybody pointing a gun at me. the last thing i would do is run. your only real chance of survival in a situation like that is to attempt to disarm the guy. and if somebody, in plainclothes, flashed a badge at me, I'd fucking do what they say.
i would panic if i saw anybody pointing a gun at me. the last thing i would do is run. your only real chance of survival in a situation like that is to attempt to disarm the guy. and if somebody, in plainclothes, flashed a badge at me, I'd fucking do what they say.
Yes, cops break the law everyday. If you doubt that at least 1 cop in America breaks the law every day, you are the one disenfranchised with society. Also, I never said the killing was a murder, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I even specified that I am not advocating that they get a life sentence or anything, I just think it's bs that they were completely acquitted in a trial without a jury.Ender2309 wrote:
really? cops break the law everyday? so because you're disenfranchised with society you feel that the death was murder? because you feel like cops break the law a lot they automatically did so here? no. thats pointless, baseless assumption.
You aren't Sean Bell. You and Sean Bell do not have the same instincts, so while the last thing you might do is run, that might be his first action. And who knows if the guy flashed a badge at them? The cops claimed they did (of course they claim that, or it would be a murder) and the victims claim they didn't (of course they claim that, they feel like they are victims and that the incident was unjust).Ender2309 wrote:
i would panic if i saw anybody pointing a gun at me. the last thing i would do is run. your only real chance of survival in a situation like that is to attempt to disarm the guy. and if somebody, in plainclothes, flashed a badge at me, I'd fucking do what they say.
Like I said before, I'm not saying the officers are guilty.
thats exactly what you've been saying.Home wrote:
Yes, cops break the law everyday. If you doubt that at least 1 cop in America breaks the law every day, you are the one disenfranchised with society. Also, I never said the killing was a murder, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I even specified that I am not advocating that they get a life sentence or anything, I just think it's bs that they were completely acquitted in a trial without a jury.Ender2309 wrote:
really? cops break the law everyday? so because you're disenfranchised with society you feel that the death was murder? because you feel like cops break the law a lot they automatically did so here? no. thats pointless, baseless assumption.You aren't Sean Bell. You and Sean Bell do not have the same instincts, so while the last thing you might do is run, that might be his first action. And who knows if the guy flashed a badge at them? The cops claimed they did (of course they claim that, or it would be a murder) and the victims claim they didn't (of course they claim that, they feel like they are victims and that the incident was unjust).Ender2309 wrote:
i would panic if i saw anybody pointing a gun at me. the last thing i would do is run. your only real chance of survival in a situation like that is to attempt to disarm the guy. and if somebody, in plainclothes, flashed a badge at me, I'd fucking do what they say.
Like I said before, I'm not saying the officers are guilty.
i never said cops don't break laws. i'm sure they do. but that in no way refutes my argument.
sucks to be him then. he shouldn't have run.